Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-28 Thread Phake Nick
在 2020年3月27日週五 21:05,Paul Allen 寫道: > On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 12:31, Simon Poole wrote: > >> Pretending that they do isn't a useful concept and yes they typically >> won't have transliterations either. >> > I'm not pretending the street I'm on has a name in Mandarin. But the > country I'm in

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Jeremiah Rose via Tagging
Hello, sorry I'm late to this discussion. I added a bunch of Klingon language country names to OSM a few days ago, which were reverted. Regardless about whether the OSM community think names in {tlhIngan Hol} should get the {HISlaH} "yea" or {ghobe'} "nay", I think it's important that any rule

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 22:23, Paul Allen wrote: > > If we English speakers are looking at a map of the world, we prefer to see > our own names for places. The media here don't report an earthquake in > Roma > but an earthquake in Rome. They don't report a general strike in > Deutschland > but

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Phake Nick
在 2020年3月27日週五 17:14, 寫道: > > > On March 25, 2020 11:50:15 AM GMT+01:00, Phake Nick > wrote: > >在 2020年3月25日週三 18:34,Frederik Ramm 寫道: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> On 25.03.20 11:19, Phake Nick wrote: > >> > My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually > >represent a > >> >

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Simon Poole
I think we are in violent agreement. Am 27.03.2020 um 14:04 schrieb Paul Allen: > On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 12:31, Simon Poole > wrote: > > The point is that the name in question isn't actually the name in > de-CH, it's the Swedish name. > > > I was hoping some would

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Paul Allen
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 12:31, Simon Poole wrote: > The point is that the name in question isn't actually the name in de-CH, > it's the Swedish name. > I was hoping some would understand better by reversing the positions. > The general norm all over the world is that most places -don't- have

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Simon Poole
The point is that the name in question isn't actually the name in de-CH, it's the Swedish name. The general norm all over the world is that most places -don't- have names in languages that are not used locally. Pretending that they do isn't a useful concept and yes they typically won't have

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Paul Allen
On Fri, 27 Mar 2020 at 11:47, pangoSE wrote: > Does it matter what I as a swede think? > Perhaps. It depends how you answer my question below. :) Names are (in my view) socially constructed and constantly agreed upon by > the users of the language. I don't speak Swiss High German so I'm not >

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread pangoSE
Andrew *From:* Frederik Ramm *Sent:* 25 March 2020 09:26 *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools *Subject:* [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread Simon Poole
to have lots of different name:XX tags? >> >> -- >> Andrew >> >> >> -------- >> *From:* Frederik Ramm >> *Sent:* 25 March 2020 09:26 >> *To:* Tag dis

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread pangose
Thank you very much for writing that post. I wholeheartedly agree with your arguments. On the basis of this it makes even more sense to sidestep the name issues and leave the battle to wikidatans. We just map what is on the ground and they fight over the rest with references, judgements of

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread pangose
On March 25, 2020 2:08:33 PM GMT+01:00, Paul Allen wrote: >On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 10:02, wrote: > >> Honestly I don't think it makes sense for OSM to have names at all on >> objects which has a Wikidata reference. >> > >Not all mappable objects have a Wikidata reference. Cities and big

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread pangose
On March 25, 2020 11:50:15 AM GMT+01:00, Phake Nick wrote: >在 2020年3月25日週三 18:34,Frederik Ramm 寫道: > >> Hi, >> >> On 25.03.20 11:19, Phake Nick wrote: >> > My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually >represent a >> > unique name in its own right; all others are either

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-27 Thread pangose
-------------- >> *From:* Frederik Ramm >> *Sent:* 25 March 2020 09:26 >> *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools >> >> *Subject:* [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx &g

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-26 Thread Phake Nick
Names in OSM map is to show the world reader what each objects are. Unlike Wikipedia and Wikidata, OSM map everything on the ground. Let assume the world's common language is now priparaish, and English is now only spoken by a small insignificant African tribe, and is also the only language in the

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mi., 25. März 2020 um 15:23 Uhr schrieb Joseph Eisenberg < joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>: > > "if the name is otherwise regarded correct by mainstream media or a > language authority." > > In that case, please add it to wikidata with a reference, but it would > not be appropriate for

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-26 Thread Andrew Davidson
On 26/3/20 2:05 pm, Warin wrote: Some tags used at present are; alt_nameAyers Rock alt_name:cs Ayersova skála alt_name:en Ayers Rock nameUluṟu That's odd. The big red rock in the middle of Australia is called Uluru / Ayers Rock

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-26 Thread Warin
On 25/3/20 10:30 pm, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am Mi., 25. März 2020 um 10:27 Uhr schrieb Frederik Ramm mailto:frede...@remote.org>>: In my opinion, a name:xx tag should only be added if you can demonstrate that people natively speaking the living language xx are actually

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-26 Thread Shawn K. Quinn
On 3/25/20 04:26, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Yesterday someone added a few dozen Klingon names to countries in OSM. I > have reverted that because of a copyright issue, but I think we also > need to discuss which languages we want to accept for name:xx tags. This is OpenStreetMap, not

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-26 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
> If the current name:pjt=Uluṟu is retained in addition to the name=Uluṟu tag, > I could determine the name is in the pjt language In this case, but what if it was name=Uluru, name:en=Uluru, name:cs= Uluru? Now we have to guess that English is the default language in Australia... but what if the

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Tod Fitch
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 8:05 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I would think that a default should be used - where the required language > name is not within OSM then the local language name should be used. > This should stop the copying of the local language name into other languages

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Warin
On 25/3/20 8:26 pm, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM because while we defer to "local knowledge" as the highest-ranking source normally, this is not being done for name:xx tags. It is possible for no single citizen of the city of Karlsruhe to know

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Paul Allen
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:51, Tod Fitch wrote: I attempted to create a multi-lingual map recently and came to the > conclusion that the suggestion in the wiki to repeat the name=* > withname:=* was the only workable way we have at the moment for a data > consumer to determine what the language

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Tod Fitch
> On Mar 25, 2020, at 3:56 PM, Paul Allen wrote: > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 22:25, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > > Is there any reason to actually specify name:en= when English is the > Australian language? > > It's not the language of all Australians. Ayers

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Paul Allen
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 22:25, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > Is there any reason to actually specify name:en= when English is the > Australian language? > It's not the language of all Australians. Ayers Rock is now Uluru. So it may be sensible, in some cases, to add name:en to allow for future

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
While mapping recently here in Australia, I've spotted a few things listed as name=Whatever, name:en=Whatever & name:international=Whatever. Is there any reason to actually specify name:en= when English is the Australian language? & how about name:international? Thanks Graeme

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Simon Poole
* Frederik Ramm > *Sent:* 25 March 2020 09:26 > *To:* Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > > *Subject:* [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags? >   > Hi, > > the "name:xx" tags are someth

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Wednesday 25 March 2020, Jyri-Petteri Paloposki wrote: > > I slightly disagree with this one. IMO a name in a foreign language > would be admissible if it is recognised by native speakers of the > language either back home or in the local community OR if the name is > otherwise regarded correct

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Jyri-Petteri Paloposki
On 25.3.2020 16.20, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: In that case, please add it to wikidata with a reference, but it would not be appropriate for Openstreetmap. Unlike wikipedia and wikidata, which are based on references and citations to "authoritative" sources, Openstreetmap has always been designed

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
Mar 25, 2020, 10:26 by frede...@remote.org: > A while ago we had a longer discussion about Esperanto names; in that > discussion, it was questioned whether Esperanto could be in the name tag > but nobody disputed that adding name:eo tags is ok, even though > Esperanto is an invented (or

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
> "if the name is otherwise regarded correct by mainstream media or a language > authority." In that case, please add it to wikidata with a reference, but it would not be appropriate for Openstreetmap. Unlike wikipedia and wikidata, which are based on references and citations to "authoritative"

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Jyri-Petteri Paloposki
On 25.3.2020 12.58, Christoph Hormann wrote: In terms of our traditional values and principles active use of the name is not the necessary criterion, it is verifiable local knowledge. Like with any kind of names practical verification of names would be possible by inquiring about the name to

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Paul Allen
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 10:02, wrote: > Honestly I don't think it makes sense for OSM to have names at all on > objects which has a Wikidata reference. > Not all mappable objects have a Wikidata reference. Cities and big towns, yes. Villages and hamlets, most but not all. Even where a wikidata

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Paul Allen
On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 09:27, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > * niche constructed languages (say, FredLang which has 2 words I > invented just now) > Nope. I'm tempted because you could use those "words" as a binary code that maps to words in English. Make one of those words the space character and

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mi., 25. März 2020 um 10:27 Uhr schrieb Frederik Ramm < frede...@remote.org>: > In my opinion, a name:xx tag should only be added if you can demonstrate > that people natively speaking the living language xx are actually using > this name for this entity. There are a few notable exceptions

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Wednesday 25 March 2020, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > In my opinion, a name:xx tag should only be added if you can > demonstrate that people natively speaking the living language xx are > actually using this name for this entity. In terms of our traditional values and principles active use of the

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Phake Nick
在 2020年3月25日週三 18:34,Frederik Ramm 寫道: > Hi, > > On 25.03.20 11:19, Phake Nick wrote: > > My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually represent a > > unique name in its own right; all others are either copies of the > name > > tag ("this city does not have its own name

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 25.03.20 11:19, Phake Nick wrote: > My guess is that about 5% of name:xx tags in OSM actually represent a > unique name in its own right; all others are either copies of the name > tag ("this city does not have its own name in language XX but I want > every city to have a

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Phake Nick
在 2020年3月25日週三 17:27,Frederik Ramm 寫道: > Hi, > > the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM because while we > defer to "local knowledge" as the highest-ranking source normally, this > is not being done for name:xx tags. It is possible for no single citizen > of the city of

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 25.03.20 10:45, Andrew Hain wrote: > Why on earth would we not (excluding exceptional copyright issues) want > to have lots of different name:XX tags? I thought I had given a couple of reasons in my post. If you have not understood them, I'm happy to rephrase. If you *have* understood

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread pangose
t;Sent: 25 March 2020 09:26 >To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools > >Subject: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags? > >Hi, > >the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM because while >we >defer to "local knowl

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Jo
Well, since I'm able to communicate in Esperanto, albeit not fluently anymore, I would definitely like to keep name:eo, probably interlingua and those as well. I'm not expecting an invasion of Klingons or Elven, so those don't seem all that useful. Roman, you mean Latin? It existed, people

Re: [Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Andrew Hain
Why on earth would we not (excluding exceptional copyright issues) want to have lots of different name:XX tags? -- Andrew From: Frederik Ramm Sent: 25 March 2020 09:26 To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools Subject: [Tagging] Which languages

[Tagging] Which languages are admissible for name:xx tags?

2020-03-25 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, the "name:xx" tags are something of an exception in OSM because while we defer to "local knowledge" as the highest-ranking source normally, this is not being done for name:xx tags. It is possible for no single citizen of the city of Karlsruhe to know its Russian name, but still a Russian name