Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
2012/11/21 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com Is the error having no speed limit or having a dummy node showing there should be a limit? For maxspeed you could either a) tag a sign position (on a node) to show: here starts (or continues) the speed limit. b) and (more important) you should tag the speed limit to the part of the highway it applies to. In your case you can't do a) (because the positions you have are not sign positions) and you can't do b) (because you have just node positions and don't know where the limit starts or ends). As this data is not helpful, you shouldn't import it at all. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
On 2012-11-23 19:48, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote : 2012/11/21 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com Is the error having no speed limit or having a dummy node showing there should be a limit? For maxspeed you could either a) tag a sign position (on a node) to show: here starts (or continues) the speed limit. b) and (more important) you should tag the speed limit to the part of the highway it applies to. In your case you can't do a) (because the positions you have are not sign positions) and you can't do b) (because you have just node positions and don't know where the limit starts or ends). As this data is not helpful, you shouldn't import it at all. That has been said 10 times and I (I suppose, why me?) was accused not to reply. So I do: I think we can stop. PLEASE! 1) someone now uploaded the POI data to OSB 2) I said several times that, by uploading it to OSM, the helpfulness would *NOT* be to have meaningful data in OSM but to have innocuous markers producing OSMOSE and OSMI errors. They would have been spotted by mappers only and removed once the corresponding Zone30 limit was mapped or when believed that keeping the markers is vain. It's written in the tags. Too difficult to understand. André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [talk-be] )
Hi, Thanks for all the replies. I will add those POIs to OSM. This post is asking taggers and OSMOSE, OSMI et al customers to check that * the highlighted fake node's tags are correct and everything that's needed for the genuine way's tag * the nodes are, /*or what should be changed to be*/, visible in OSM* et al but not obtrusive * the instructions are understandable (style suggestions welcome) Let's be sure to be definitive, once started to be removed, there will be no comeback. I have presently added one sample at 50.53035 5.71307 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/2024133661. The JOSM filter /*maxspeed:30*/ (or /*:**/ for any speed) with I(nvert) check mark displays only speed limits, fake or real. 2012/11/20 Jo winfi...@gmail.com mailto:winfi...@gmail.com What you really want to do is apply the speed limits to the OSM ways: maxspeed=30 source:maxspeed=zone30. But the source file has nodes. Is there a way to feed all these nodes into Openstreetbugs automatically and then ask the Belgian population to fix those 'bugs'/'improvement requests' in their region? Polyglot Ja, это είναι waß yo will faire :-) As there were no adverse reactions, I will globally move all the POIs to OSM swiftly. I trust the promoters of this project will organize the update and removal. I formerly suggested a way of doing it (alerting volunteer taggers of OpenStreetBugs updates). On 2012-11-20 10:56, Stefano Fraccaro wrote : It's not possible to apply the same JOSM preset to all nodes at one time? If the case, maybe I can write a short program to do that (in C# language). Yes it can, Stefano, thanks (otherwise I would have written a perl script, they do marvels http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/OpenLayers_Vector_fast.html?zoom=11lat=50.53654lon=5.53611layers=BFTFT). It can be done in one revertible operation, by one man. Here are the tags that will be, let's say by the week end. created_by=(erased) note=temporary node until nearby way speed limit is set *maxspeed=30* *source:maxspeed=http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=123619* FIXME:tag same maxpeed and source:maxspeed onto the span of nearby way, then delete this node name[as of source]=states town and street so that incorrect coordinated can be detected. The next phase will be to extract converted and existing (?) limits to POI files. Simplest method, anyone? (I need a rest and something else to do) Cheers, André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [talk-be] )
Am 21/nov/2012 um 11:25 schrieb A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: created_by=(erased) note=temporary node until nearby way speed limit is set maxspeed=30 source:maxspeed=http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=123619 FIXME:tag same maxpeed and source:maxspeed onto the span of nearby way, then delete this node name[as of source]=states town and street so that incorrect coordinated can be detected. If these nodes do not represent sign positions you shouldn't import them into osm IMHO, better put them into open street bugs or similar. There is no point in having them in osm in this case, as you can't infer from just a point position where the limit applies to, and therefor these nodes are more or less useless (they might be a hint where the mapper should make a survey but not more). Cheers, Martin___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [talk-be] )
If you have a data set of nodes representing street signs, why don't you import them as such? traffic_sign=BE:C43 maxspeed=30 source=? Of course you still need to manually match those to the ways and tag the maxspeed=* to them. But you can use the traffic_sign=* nodes to create a josm filter or even ask someone from OSMI or keepright to do a check based on a matching way in close proximity to such sign. You could list all imported nodes on a wiki page, so they can be reviewed by actual humans. I suppose they are not precise enough to 'really' denote the sign post, right? my 2 cents. Chaos 2012/11/21 Martin Koppenhöfer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Am 21/nov/2012 um 11:25 schrieb A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: created_by=(erased) note=temporary node until nearby way speed limit is set maxspeed=30 source:maxspeed=http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=123619 FIXME:tag same maxpeed and source:maxspeed onto the span of nearby way, then delete this node name[as of source]=states town and street so that incorrect coordinated can be detected. If these nodes do not represent sign positions you shouldn't import them into osm IMHO, better put them into open street bugs or similar. There is no point in having them in osm in this case, as you can't infer from just a point position where the limit applies to, and therefor these nodes are more or less useless (they might be a hint where the mapper should make a survey but not more). Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
On 2012-11-20 10:40, A.Pirard.Papou wrote : Hi, A GPS addicts group has encoded a file of over 1000 30 km/h speed limits. Their leader has just discovered OSM, ITO Map, etc... He's promoting security much and would like his data into OSM. I wrote on talk-be that this was doing it the other way round. A speed limit has two ends and his POIs are nodes. They should have been encoded into OSM first and then extracted. If only the world knew that OSM exists :-( I have converted their file to a .osm file. I can transfer the nodes to another layer and apply a JOSM preset. That's quite fast but 1000 is much! But I can split the .osm file to share the work. Well, do you think it would be useful to add those POIs and how? * as a side node with o maxspeed=30 o fixme=determine start/end and transfer these tags to the way o source=http://... * as a real limit on a sort distance, wrong but with a fixme? most often it's about the same distance astride a school access this could be visible on maps, but make believe the mapping is done * as a just a note on the way: o fixme=please tag the 30 km/h speed limit here much time spent for little result * another idea? A side node risks to be unnoticed and even left behind after really mapping the limit. Mapping the wrong distance means risking not to notice fixme and later split+join. Well, what's your advice? I think I was clear enough presenting the options I knew to help this guy. No replies. Now that I have prepared the quickest option 1, I receive all sorts of contradicting replies. Why not before I did the job? So, my conclusion is to suggest you to do it exactly as you want. You know where the data is. I will certainly not manually enter 1000 entries in OpenStreetBugs just in hope. But someone may know how to use OSB API. Or that they have none. And in that case, send OSB the file zone30_BE.asc. Or split and share the job... Is the error having no speed limit or having a dummy node showing there should be a limit? I had found that way to automatically signal the error to OSMI and to OSMOSE and to ...? But you don't want that. I was doing all that because I once picked up a dead 10 yo that s.o. knocked down, no speed limit. Goodbye, André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
(resending as it got rejected the first time) A.Pirard.Papou wrote: I will certainly not manually enter 1000 entries in OpenStreetBugs just in hope. You could use their API: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenStreetBugs/API_0.1 (read down to addPOIexec) But someone may know how to use OSB API. Or that they have none. And in that case, send OSB the file zone30_BE.asc. Or split and share the job... If you would like to add the data to OSB, you're free to do so. If you know the start and end of a maxspeed=30 you're free to update OSM with that data too. However, please don't tell people on an international mailiing list you must do X. It's unlikely to achieve the results that you would like. Is the error having no speed limit or having a dummy node showing there should be a limit? Having no speed limit on a road is not an error, but it is missing data unless the speed limit can be inferred somehow. Having a dummy node saying speed limit is missing IS an error, since that node doesn't rpresent anything in the real world. I had found that way to automatically signal the error to OSMI and to OSMOSE and to ...? But you don't want that. Perhaps you could comment on some of the replies that you've received (e.g. Ronnie Soak's?) People are trying to help you, but communication is clearly not occurring. Cheers, Andy ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium
On 2012-11-21 14:55, Ben Laenen wrote : On Wednesday 21 November 2012 14:29:31 A.Pirard.Papou wrote: I think I was clear enough presenting the options I knew to help this guy. No replies. Now that I have prepared the quickest option 1, I receive all sorts of contradicting replies. Why not before I did the job? You should always give it some time before everyone who's interested has had some time to read the lists and think about it for a bit... A single day isn't enough... So yeah, you can prepare the work immediately, but you do risk doing unnecessary work once it's clear what the community wants. I didn't even think you were anywhere close to actually importing the data... OK Ben. I didn't think myself that I would come up to that solution so easily. On the other hand, it can be undone instantly by removing a single change set. And as it can automatically trigger OSMI, OSMOSE, ... that's why I like it. OpenStreetBugs is mostly a collection of already long solved issues, not really a popular agora. Can we spend the time you speak of checking that everyone's favorite Inspector is highlighting the errors and that they are not masking other errors or pissing off people. Making this error unusual (not mixing it with usual ones) is necessary as well as avoiding that mappers erase it without reading the tags or the node. Having the Inspectors display a /*Be sure to read inside*/ would be ideal. Any better tags suggestion is welcome. It has to be definitive. Not easy to change the tags when part of the nodes will have been erased. OSMI Data from 2012-11-18, I had read next day delivery. OSMOSE seem to think it's not important to know. Pity the tests cannot be more interactive. I'm keeping ears and eyes open. Cheers, André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
Hi, A GPS addicts group has encoded a file of over 1000 30 km/h speed limits. Their leader has just discovered OSM, ITO Map, etc... He's promoting security much and would like his data into OSM. I wrote on talk-be that this was doing it the other way round. A speed limit has two ends and his POIs are nodes. They should have been encoded into OSM first and then extracted. If only the world knew that OSM exists :-( I have converted their file to a .osm file. I can transfer the nodes to another layer and apply a JOSM preset. That's quite fast but 1000 is much! But I can split the .osm file to share the work. Well, do you think it would be useful to add those POIs and how? * as a side node with o maxspeed=30 o fixme=determine start/end and transfer these tags to the way o source=http://... * as a real limit on a sort distance, wrong but with a fixme? most often it's about the same distance astride a school access this could be visible on maps, but make believe the mapping is done * as a just a note on the way: o fixme=please tag the 30 km/h speed limit here much time spent for little result * another idea? A side node risks to be unnoticed and even left behind after really mapping the limit. Mapping the wrong distance means risking not to notice fixme and later split+join. Well, what's your advice? Cheers, André. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
It's not possible to apply the same JOSM preset to all nodes at one time? If the case, maybe I can write a short program to do that (in C# language). Stefano Il 20/11/2012 10:40, A.Pirard.Papou ha scritto: I have converted their file to a .osm file. I can transfer the nodes to another layer and apply a JOSM preset. That's quite fast but 1000 is much! But I can split the .osm file to share the work. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
What you really want to do is apply the speed limits to the OSM ways: maxspeed=30 source:maxspeed=zone30. But the source file has nodes. Is there a way to feed all these nodes into Openstreetbugs automatically and then ask the Belgian population to fix those 'bugs'/'improvement requests' in their region? Polyglot 2012/11/20 Stefano Fraccaro stefano.fracc...@libero.it It's not possible to apply the same JOSM preset to all nodes at one time? If the case, maybe I can write a short program to do that (in C# language). Stefano Il 20/11/2012 10:40, A.Pirard.Papou ha scritto: I have converted their file to a .osm file. I can transfer the nodes to another layer and apply a JOSM preset. That's quite fast but 1000 is much! But I can split the .osm file to share the work. __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr is also a nice tool for this type of manual integration 2012/11/20 Jo winfi...@gmail.com What you really want to do is apply the speed limits to the OSM ways: maxspeed=30 source:maxspeed=zone30. But the source file has nodes. Is there a way to feed all these nodes into Openstreetbugs automatically and then ask the Belgian population to fix those 'bugs'/'improvement requests' in their region? Polyglot 2012/11/20 Stefano Fraccaro stefano.fracc...@libero.it It's not possible to apply the same JOSM preset to all nodes at one time? If the case, maybe I can write a short program to do that (in C# language). Stefano Il 20/11/2012 10:40, A.Pirard.Papou ha scritto: I have converted their file to a .osm file. I can transfer the nodes to another layer and apply a JOSM preset. That's quite fast but 1000 is much! But I can split the .osm file to share the work. __**_ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/tagginghttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- ab_fab http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Ab_fab Il n'y a pas de pas perdus, Nadja ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Zones 30 in Belgium (from [OSM-talk-be] )
Am 20/nov/2012 um 10:40 schrieb A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com: Well, do you think it would be useful to add those POIs and how? If they are sign positions I think they are useful. You can tag them with traffic_sign=maxspeed and maxspeed=30 on the sign position (to infer the direction). There is a JOSM map style to show the correct signs for these nodes: http://josm.openstreetmap.de/josmfile?page=Styles/MaxspeedIconszip=1 Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
