Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-10-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Di., 27. Okt. 2020 um 00:38 Uhr schrieb Dave F via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org>: > > > On 26/10/2020 23:26, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > > crossing_ref as far as I have understood the tag, is not about the > > type of crossing, > > I think you've misunderstood. then I am happy I

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-10-26 Thread Dave F via Tagging
On 26/10/2020 23:26, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: crossing_ref as far as I have understood the tag, is not about the type of crossing, I think you've misunderstood. DaveF ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-10-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mo., 26. Okt. 2020 um 17:12 Uhr schrieb Dave F < davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>: > 'Zebra' shouldn't be use on the primary tag 'crossing' > > crossing_ref was created for use within the UK because many parts of the > rest of the world didn't understand what was meant by 'zebra'. It is, after >

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-10-26 Thread Dave F via Tagging
'Zebra' shouldn't be use on the primary tag 'crossing' crossing_ref was created for use within the UK because many parts of the rest of the world didn't understand what was meant by 'zebra'. It is, after all, a nickname: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:crossing_ref DaveF On

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-18 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Fr., 18. Sept. 2020 um 09:41 Uhr schrieb Peter Elderson < pelder...@gmail.com>: > Changing to crossing=marked then specifying that it's a zebra just makes > it more work, and harder to interpret. > +1, if you don't know the implications of crossing=zebra, then you don't know them either for

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-18 Thread Peter Elderson
> > Maybe crossing=marked + marked=??? > where ??? is the "type" of crossing - UK_zebra (as well as all their other > birds & animals!), US_zebra, EU_zebra & so on, so if you know exactly what > it is you can specify, but if you can only see a crossing marked there, you > can just call it a marked

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Tod Fitch
> On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:30 AM, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > > On 17/09/2020 10.07, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: >> On 9/17/20 08:15, Matthew Woehlke wrote: >>> It's also atrocious because it can *only* be verified by survey. As >>> much as we prefer surveys, the reality is that a lot of mapping >>>

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Fri, 18 Sep 2020 at 06:58, Paul Allen wrote: > > Maybe "zebra crossing" should be a region-specific editor > preset and generates a tag(s) indicating priority of the pedestrian > and under what circumstances: "crossing, indicated by surface > markings, pedestrian has priority after stepping

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 19:29, Peter Elderson wrote: > In Nederland, the zebra is a very clear and specific type of crossing with > legal rules including yield to pedestrians walking on or even toward the > zebra. > I think we may end up having to make a distinction between the pattern of the

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Do., 17. Sept. 2020 um 18:32 Uhr schrieb Matthew Woehlke < mwoehlke.fl...@gmail.com>: > > *Traffic* lights I can buy. I am more suspicious of the claim that you > can tell whether they have pedestrian crossing signals or not, usually pedestrian crossings are marked, and depending on the

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Do., 17. Sept. 2020 um 02:45 Uhr schrieb Taskar Center : > 1) How is this shared space controlled? ... > > 2) How is the space demarcated? A crossing may be demarcated by a number > of different ground markers, > > 3) How can a pedestrian call up the signal ... > > 4) who is sharing the

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Matthew Woehlke
On 17/09/2020 15.50, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: On 9/17/20 11:30, Matthew Woehlke wrote: *Maybe* if you get lucky and have a very clear shadow at the right angle, but if you try to tell me you can identify https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/7695704414 (n.b. a yield sign) from a shadow in aerial

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Shawn K. Quinn
On 9/17/20 11:30, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > On 17/09/2020 10.07, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: >> On 9/17/20 08:15, Matthew Woehlke wrote: >>> It's also atrocious because it can *only* be verified by survey. >>> As much as we prefer surveys, the reality is that a lot of >>> mapping happens just from

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Peter Elderson
In Nederland, the zebra is a very clear and specific type of crossing with legal rules including yield to pedestrians walking on or even toward the zebra. I think this will continue to be the case even after Europe leaves the British Union. Vr gr Peter Elderson Op do 17 sep. 2020 om 20:12

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Matthew Woehlke
On 17/09/2020 13.44, Tod Fitch wrote: On Sep 17, 2020, at 9:30 AM, Matthew Woehlke wrote: On 17/09/2020 10.07, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: On 9/17/20 08:15, Matthew Woehlke wrote: It's also atrocious because it can *only* be verified by survey. As much as we prefer surveys, the reality is that a lot

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Matthew Woehlke
On 17/09/2020 10.07, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: On 9/17/20 08:15, Matthew Woehlke wrote: It's also atrocious because it can *only* be verified by survey. As much as we prefer surveys, the reality is that a lot of mapping happens just from aerials, where crossings (both marked and, in some cases,

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 17 Sep 2020 at 15:09, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > > I agree that the current presets available in JOSM are a bit of a botch, > particularly "uncontrolled" for crossings technically controlled by a > sign. "Marked" may be better but we still have the issue of changing a > lot of previously

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Clifford Snow
On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:08 AM Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > > I agree that the current presets available in JOSM are a bit of a botch, > particularly "uncontrolled" for crossings technically controlled by a > sign. "Marked" may be better but we still have the issue of changing a > lot of previously

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Shawn K. Quinn
On 9/17/20 08:15, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > It's also atrocious because it can *only* be verified by survey. As > much as we prefer surveys, the reality is that a lot of mapping > happens just from aerials, where crossings (both marked and, in some > cases, unmarked) can be seen, but signals

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-17 Thread Matthew Woehlke
On 16/09/2020 20.40, Taskar Center wrote: crossing has been a very poor tag because it seems to be the kitchen sink for all the questions pertaining to crossings... Many of the attributes that get values in "crossing" are potentially overlapping and not mutually exclusive, causing a lot of

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread António Madeira
I do believe that uncontrolled should be deprecated in favour of marked, which iD already did. I also agree that marked/unmarked was a good improved in the crossing scheme, but it should be cleared on the wiki page, which seems to favour the uncontrolled tag. About your considerations: 1 - That

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Taskar Center
Hi, crossing has been a very poor tag because it seems to be the kitchen sink for all the questions pertaining to crossings... Many of the attributes that get values in "crossing" are potentially overlapping and not mutually exclusive, causing a lot of confusion and poorly tagged crossings.

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Clifford Snow
On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 2:46 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > > I must admit that I only do crossings as =traffic_signals; =marked (by > itself) for zebra crossings; & =unmarked where there is provision to cross > the road but no signage or roadway markings on any sort. > > > I do crossings as

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Peter Elderson
In Nederland zebra crossings are very common, and go by the name zebra.This is also the name used in legislation. Zebra crossings give priority to pedestrians crossing the street on the zebra. Hm how should this be tagged... maybe

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 at 20:01, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > while the very generic crossing=marked, which was quite unpopular before > (2013-2018 below 6000 uses) now went through the roof and is leading the > tagstats with more than 1 million uses. > You may find that it is partly, at least,

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Grzegorz Szymaszek
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ID/Controversial_Decisions#Changing_crossing.3Dzebra_to_crossing.3Dmarked signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread António Madeira via Tagging
The problem, I believe is with iD's presets. When I started mapping some years ago I always marked crossings as zebras, then iD changed the preset to crossing =marked and I believe that's what you're seeing with the increasing number of this tag. Although iD presents the type selector within that

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 16. Sep 2020, at 20:22, António Madeira wrote: > > The problem, I believe is with iD's presets. thank you for the hint, I think you’re right. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mi., 16. Sept. 2020 um 16:27 Uhr schrieb Dave F via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org>: > I thought the correct tag for this was crossing_ref. Have you cross > checked to see if they've been swapped instead of removed? > crossing_ref is a different kind of beast, as some people use it to

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Dave F via Tagging
On 16/09/2020 14:59, Jeremy Harris wrote: On 16/09/2020 14:26, Matthew Woehlke wrote: On 16/09/2020 05.57, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I noticed that crossing=zebra tag usage is drastically shrinking while the very generic crossing=marked, which was quite unpopular before (2013-2018 below

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mi., 16. Sept. 2020 um 15:26 Uhr schrieb Matthew Woehlke < mwoehlke.fl...@gmail.com>: > My understanding is that crossing=zebra is deprecated in favor of > crossing=uncontrolled / crossing=traffic_signals. there are many issues with "uncontrolled", especially if you use it to intend a zebra

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Dave F via Tagging
I thought the correct tag for this was crossing_ref. Have you cross checked to see if they've been swapped instead of removed? DaveF On 16/09/2020 10:57, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I noticed that crossing=zebra tag usage is drastically shrinking while the very generic crossing=marked, which

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Jeremy Harris
On 16/09/2020 14:26, Matthew Woehlke wrote: > On 16/09/2020 05.57, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> I noticed that crossing=zebra tag usage is drastically shrinking while >> the >> very generic crossing=marked, which was quite unpopular before (2013-2018 >> below 6000 uses) now went through the roof

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Matthew Woehlke
On 16/09/2020 05.57, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I noticed that crossing=zebra tag usage is drastically shrinking while the very generic crossing=marked, which was quite unpopular before (2013-2018 below 6000 uses) now went through the roof and is leading the tagstats with more than 1 million

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 16. Sep 2020, at 14:25, Supaplex wrote: > > Do you have examples where "zebra" is changed automatically? Where and who > and why? I have seen it only sporadically and have contacted the mappers in some cases, the same for marked when there were traffic lights. I

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Supaplex
I would appreciate using crossing=zebra! (instead of crossing=marked + crossing_ref=zebra, so I have tagged it so far.) But I can't imagine that people use or change "marked" instead of "traffic_signals". Or have you observed this somewhere? For me "marked" would be something like "paved" for

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread ael
On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 12:40:06PM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Mi., 16. Sept. 2020 um 12:36 Uhr schrieb ael : > > > Yes. ISTR that the last time I tried to mark a crossing, zebra wasn't a > > option in the presets. But my memeory may be at fault. > > > > which editor are you using? I

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mi., 16. Sept. 2020 um 12:36 Uhr schrieb ael : > Yes. ISTR that the last time I tried to mark a crossing, zebra wasn't a > option in the presets. But my memeory may be at fault. > which editor are you using? Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread ael
On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 11:57:58AM +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I noticed that crossing=zebra tag usage is drastically shrinking while the > very generic crossing=marked, which was quite unpopular before (2013-2018 > below 6000 uses) now went through the roof and is leading the tagstats

[Tagging] automated edits seem to remove crossing=zebra drastically

2020-09-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
I noticed that crossing=zebra tag usage is drastically shrinking while the very generic crossing=marked, which was quite unpopular before (2013-2018 below 6000 uses) now went through the roof and is leading the tagstats with more than 1 million uses. What do you think about it, shouldn't we be