Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[marc marc]

Le 10.02.19 à 14:34, s8evq a écrit :
> On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 14:58:42 +1100, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 03/02/19 13:37, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 12:07, marc marc >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>  I think it would be better to continue the current club=scout
>>>  system and add precision with
>>>  scouts=Scouts|Guiding|Patro|Chiro or any other tag to describe the
>>>  "upstream" organisation/variant.
>>>
>>>
>>> That's a nice neat solution +1
>> -1
>> I think
>> club=youth
>> youth=scout/* is a better approach ...

I wouldn't classify "les routiers", a club=scouts division with people 
up to 25 years old in a youth club. but I note that someone who does 
chiron doesn't want to be considered as part of the "scouts-like" category.
In fact, apart from the emotional side, for what difference they are not 
in your opignon in the same category ?
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[s8evq]

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 14:58:42 +1100, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 03/02/19 13:37, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 12:07, marc marc  > > wrote:
> >
> > I think it would be better to continue the current club=scout
> > system and add precision with
> > scouts=Scouts|Guiding|Patro|Chiro or any other tag to describe the
> > "upstream" organisation/variant.
> >
> >
> > That's a nice neat solution +1
> -1
> I think
> club=youth
> youth=scout/* is a better approach ...
> >
> > Naturally though, not all that list of "youth organizations" would 
> > come under Scouts!
> 
> So put scouts under youth organisations .. logical.

I've been re-reading this thread in order to find a solution.  It's not clear 
to me yet how to proceed forward.

From what I read, quite some people are not against the usage of club=youth as 
is. I might just keep using club=youth, although the wiki is against it.

On the other hand, what about using club=youth_organization instead of 
club=youth, to counter the argument that youth is not a special interest group?


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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 at 08:12, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Both my sons went through the Australian Air Force Cadets
> http://www.aafc.org.au/
>
> It was emphasised that "The Australian Air Force Cadets (AAFC) is a youth
> oriented organisation that is administered and actively supported by the
> Royal Australian Air Force.", but they are NOT military in any way, with
> the same applying to both Army & Navy Cadets.
>
> Once upon a time, Cadets was a way of starting early training for those
> kids who were interested in a military career but that was stopped in the
> 1980s - 90s, as the Government of the day apparently didn't want to be seen
> to be turning children into war-mongers & trained killers!
>
> I don't know, but would assume that the same thing would apply for similar
> groups in other countries?
>
> So they would also come under the heading of
> club=youth
> youth=*
>

Reading links fro one of the other threads posted this morning & found this
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Key:military#Cadet_training_buildings


So maybe there should also be
club=youth
youth=cadet

Thanks

Graeme

>
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Philip Barnes]

Not sure the scouts would appreciate being labelled as yoof. I know I wouldn't 
have when I was a scout.

Phil (trigpoint) 

On 3 February 2019 04:58:42 CET, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 03/02/19 13:37, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 12:07, marc marc > > wrote:
>>
>> I think it would be better to continue the current club=scout
>> system and add precision with
>> scouts=Scouts|Guiding|Patro|Chiro or any other tag to describe
>the
>> "upstream" organisation/variant.
>>
>>
>> That's a nice neat solution +1
>-1
>I think
>club=youth
>youth=scout/* is a better approach ...
>>
>> Naturally though, not all that list of "youth organizations" would 
>> come under Scouts!
>
>So put scouts under youth organisations .. logical.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Warin]

On 03/02/19 13:37, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:


On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 12:07, marc marc > wrote:


I think it would be better to continue the current club=scout
system and add precision with
scouts=Scouts|Guiding|Patro|Chiro or any other tag to describe the
"upstream" organisation/variant.


That's a nice neat solution +1

-1
I think
club=youth
youth=scout/* is a better approach ...


Naturally though, not all that list of "youth organizations" would 
come under Scouts!


So put scouts under youth organisations .. logical.
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 at 12:07, marc marc  wrote:

> I think it would be better to continue the current club=scout system and
> add precision with
> scouts=Scouts|Guiding|Patro|Chiro or any other tag to describe the
> "upstream" organisation/variant.
>

That's a nice neat solution +1

Naturally though, not all that list of "youth organizations" would come
under Scouts!

For those groups with identifiable Club rooms of some sort, I'd still
suggest club=youth + youth=

If they only use a building shared with multiple groups, then
amenity=community_centre would apply, but without any further tag to say
poker club, Yoga group, whichever church & so on.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[marc marc]

Le 02.02.19 à 15:11, Paul Allen a écrit :
> unless somebody comes up with a valid objection, just go with club=chiro

I and my family members are or have been part of the "Scouts", Guides 
and Patro. There are subtle numbers between them but I don't think any 
of them would contradict me if I say that they are part of a whole.
the official term was "youth movement" [1] and the common term "scout"
because the method is very similar to what's called "scout method" [2].
Using a different value for each of these groups implies a more 
complicated use of the data. that is why I think it would be better to 
continue the current club=scout system and add precision with 
scouts=Scouts|Guiding|Patro|Chiro or any other tag to describe the 
"upstream" organisation/variant.
With more than 539 "scout-like" [3] organizations I think it's usefull.
In belgium alone, wikipedia lists 14 and some are missing
Should we ask each contributor to be an expert in the subtleties between 
those groups in order to be able to choose the value of the main tag? 
this seems unrealistic !
the other solution is club=scout-like-youth-organisation which seems
a little long :)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youth_organizations
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_method
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Warin]

On 02/02/19 19:21, s8evq wrote:



Could we agree that club=youth does have a meaningful usage, despite what the 
wiki currently states? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club


+1 .. also the same comment on club=elderly.

These clubs can have a variety of 'interests' to suit there age group.

Trying to classify them into one interest is not possibly at least for some of 
these clubs, they classify themselves by there ages so should OSM.


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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Warin]

On 03/02/19 10:54, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:



On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 22:57, Tom Pfeifer > wrote:



A club, being an association between people, is not a geographical
entity.

Thus I prefer tagging the physical entity, which is the club home,
with
amenity=community_centre


Not disagreeing Tom, but at least in our area, community centres are 
(usually) owned & operated by the Council, & rented out to various 
groups who don't have their own premises eg yoga classes, weight-loss 
groups, religious groups, to hold meetings eg

http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/community/mermaid-beach-community-centre-3377.html


+1

Some clubs rent church and school spaces. And there may be more than one 
club in any one building, usually at separate times.




However, things like the Scout hall or AAFC hut (in the grounds of the 
High School) are theirs & theirs alone - nobody else has access to 
them, so I don't think they would really count as a community centre


Some clubs rent/provide their spaces out to other clubs too.
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[marc marc]

Le 02.02.19 à 13:56, Tom Pfeifer a écrit :
> On 02.02.2019 09:21, s8evq wrote:
>> Thank you for your input. I'm glad there are other examples of youth 
>> organisation that are clearly different from Scouts.
>>
>> Could we agree that club=youth does have a meaningful usage, despite 
>> what the wiki currently states? 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club
> 
> A club, being an association between people, is not a geographical entity.

what's the exact meaning and the implication of this ?
yes a club of ppl playing poker is not a geographical entity,
it is possible for club members to come with their hands in their 
pockets with only a deck of cards as material.
it's more like the sport tag.
it's more like an agenda "here ppl 'play poker' at least sometime

But did you mean that club is a secondary tag that must be accompanied 
by a physical tag ?
I don't see why a building containing 2 clubs should have several 
physical tags on the 2 nodes nor what they could be.
how 'll you tag a sport club and a scout club inside a school ?

how is a company more a geographical entity ?
it is only a association between ppl (despite some company are 
one-only-ppl) gathering of employees in a physical area that can also be 
represented by another tag, no ?
I think clubs, ngos, office, and the majority of poi all have
the same characteristic (being the/one current use of this area)

> Thus I prefer tagging the physical entity, which is the club home, with
> amenity=community_centre
> community_centre=youth_centre

1) scouting is realy fair away of a community youth centre
a scout room in a school, in an annex of a church, in a communal park, 
this is really not what I would describe as a community centre

2) a community centre is also the current use of this area,
it's a king a "open club" where you can go if you match the criteria
it may be also imply funded by public funds
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 22:57, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:

>
> A club, being an association between people, is not a geographical entity.
>
> Thus I prefer tagging the physical entity, which is the club home, with
> amenity=community_centre
>

Not disagreeing Tom, but at least in our area, community centres are
(usually) owned & operated by the Council, & rented out to various groups
who don't have their own premises eg yoga classes, weight-loss groups,
religious groups, to hold meetings eg
http://www.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/community/mermaid-beach-community-centre-3377.html

However, things like the Scout hall or AAFC hut (in the grounds of the High
School) are theirs & theirs alone - nobody else has access to them, so I
don't think they would really count as a community centre

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Andy Townsend]

On 02/02/2019 14:11, Paul Allen wrote:


My guess is because OSM was started by somebody in the UK; OSM is 
(supposedly) based upon
British English usage; the UK has scouts but not Chiro or KSA.  OSM 
has scouts because back

in the early days we wanted to map scouts but had no need to map Chiro.

Even in the UK there are scouts and there are scouts - the nearest scout 
building to me used to be associated with 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baden-Powell_Scouts'_Association rather 
than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scout_Association . There are 
lots of other "scout-like organisations" such as 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Woodcraft_Folk .


There are no hard and fast values in OSM; just pick something 
appropriate to best fit in with existing OSM tags where possible and 
other local mappers.  It's possible to go back and change these if it 
appears that most people map them as something else (I can think of a 
few examples where I was mapping things as X but for whatever reason Y 
became more popular; it's easy to switch to Y).


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Paul Allen]

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 14:00, s8evq  wrote:

>
> How would you then tag the building and field where Chiro, KSA or
> Australian Air Force Cadets youth groups gather weekly. club=???
>
> In other words: why does the Scouts movement have it's own club=  value?
> While, in my opinion, scout is not a generic description that covers all.
>

My guess is because OSM was started by somebody in the UK; OSM is
(supposedly) based upon
British English usage; the UK has scouts but not Chiro or KSA.  OSM has
scouts because back
in the early days we wanted to map scouts but had no need to map Chiro.

I don't see why you can't use club=chiro (as long as it is actually a
club).  To map it as club=scout
would be misleading to foreign visitors who might enter it and wiggle their
woggle (or whatever
it is that scouts do).

To quote from the wiki page: "An example list of common kind of club bases:
[...]" so that list
is not exhaustive.  Also "If you find no suitable club=* tag add one or use
club=yes." so you
are explicitly permitted add other (sensible) values.

I'd say that unless somebody comes up with a valid objection, just go with
club=chiro.  And if
you do, you should probably add it to the wiki so somebody doesn't come
along in 3 months
and ask how to map Chiro or why club=chiro isn't in the wiki.

-- 
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[s8evq]

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 13:56:03 +0100, Tom Pfeifer  wrote:
> A club, being an association between people, is not a geographical entity.


That's clear, I can agree with that.
 
> Thus I prefer tagging the physical entity, which is the club home, with
> amenity=community_centre
> where you can specify more closely what it is, e.g.
> community_centre=club_home or
> community_centre=youth_centre
> and specify the target group with
> community_centre:for=*
> 
> Adding club=* to describe the intentions of the club even further, the 
> special interest, is fine, 
> but I'd not use it alone. club=scout, from the original question, would be 
> such special interest.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

> Contrary, the age group (senior, youth) is not a special interest in that 
> sense, compared to the 
> long list of valid examples on the page.

How would you then tag the building and field where Chiro, KSA or Australian 
Air Force Cadets youth groups gather weekly. club=???  

In other words: why does the Scouts movement have it's own club=  value? While, 
in my opinion, scout is not a generic description that covers all.
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 02.02.2019 09:21, s8evq wrote:

Thank you for your input. I'm glad there are other examples of youth 
organisation that are clearly different from Scouts.

Could we agree that club=youth does have a meaningful usage, despite what the 
wiki currently states? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club


A club, being an association between people, is not a geographical entity.

Thus I prefer tagging the physical entity, which is the club home, with
amenity=community_centre
where you can specify more closely what it is, e.g.
community_centre=club_home or
community_centre=youth_centre
and specify the target group with
community_centre:for=*

Adding club=* to describe the intentions of the club even further, the special interest, is fine, 
but I'd not use it alone. club=scout, from the original question, would be such special interest.


Contrary, the age group (senior, youth) is not a special interest in that sense, compared to the 
long list of valid examples on the page.


tom

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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[s8evq]

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 08:12:28 +1000, Graeme Fitzpatrick  
wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 13:57, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 31/01/19 13:02, John Willis via Tagging wrote:
> > club=youth
> > youth=*
> >
> 
> Slightly different, but also related ...
> 
> Both my sons went through the Australian Air Force Cadets
> http://www.aafc.org.au/
> 
> It was emphasised that "The Australian Air Force Cadets (AAFC) is a youth
> oriented organisation that is administered and actively supported by the
> Royal Australian Air Force.", but they are NOT military in any way, with
> the same applying to both Army & Navy Cadets.
> 
> Once upon a time, Cadets was a way of starting early training for those
> kids who were interested in a military career but that was stopped in the
> 1980s - 90s, as the Government of the day apparently didn't want to be seen
> to be turning children into war-mongers & trained killers!
> 
> I don't know, but would assume that the same thing would apply for similar
> groups in other countries?
> 
> So they would also come under the heading of
> club=youth
> youth=*
> 


Thank you for your input. I'm glad there are other examples of youth 
organisation that are clearly different from Scouts.

Could we agree that club=youth does have a meaningful usage, despite what the 
wiki currently states? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:club


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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 at 13:57, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 31/01/19 13:02, John Willis via Tagging wrote:
>
> On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:17 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There are, or were 'cubs' for the younger people, 'rovers' for the older
> people, guides for the girls 
>
>
> yea - Brownies, Wheblos, Venture scouts, etc.  There are tons of them just
> for Boy & Girl scouts.
>
> the entire category seems to be called “scouting” or “Guiding”
>
> There are several hundred names listed here in this category.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_groups_in_Scouting_and_Guiding
>
> The name will give a good indication.
>
> club=youth
> youth=*
>

Slightly different, but also related ...

Both my sons went through the Australian Air Force Cadets
http://www.aafc.org.au/

It was emphasised that "The Australian Air Force Cadets (AAFC) is a youth
oriented organisation that is administered and actively supported by the
Royal Australian Air Force.", but they are NOT military in any way, with
the same applying to both Army & Navy Cadets.

Once upon a time, Cadets was a way of starting early training for those
kids who were interested in a military career but that was stopped in the
1980s - 90s, as the Government of the day apparently didn't want to be seen
to be turning children into war-mongers & trained killers!

I don't know, but would assume that the same thing would apply for similar
groups in other countries?

So they would also come under the heading of
club=youth
youth=*

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Warin]

On 31/01/19 13:02, John Willis via Tagging wrote:



On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:17 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


There are, or were 'cubs' for the younger people, 'rovers' for the 
older people, guides for the girls 


yea - Brownies, Wheblos, Venture scouts, etc.  There are tons of them 
just for Boy & Girl scouts.


the entire category seems to be called “scouting” or “Guiding”

There are several hundred names listed here in this category.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_groups_in_Scouting_and_Guiding

The name will give a good indication.

club=youth
youth=*

???
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[John Willis via Tagging]

> On Jan 31, 2019, at 10:17 AM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> There are, or were 'cubs' for the younger people, 'rovers' for the older 
> people, guides for the girls  

yea - Brownies, Wheblos, Venture scouts, etc.  There are tons of them just for 
Boy & Girl scouts. 

the entire category seems to be called “scouting” or “Guiding” 

There are several hundred names listed here in this category. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_groups_in_Scouting_and_Guiding 




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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Warin]

On 31/01/19 11:33, John Willis via Tagging wrote:


On Jan 31, 2019, at 8:15 AM, marc marc > wrote:


Scouts and scout do maybe not have the same meaning in belgium.
I understand club=scout (without a ending S and without an upercase)
as the "generic" term for any scout-like club


+1

Similar to how brand names become the name for things (kleenex, jello, 
etc), the term “scout” i think is used as a generic for all of these 
types of outdoor youth organizations.


I think differentiating it via operator=* and the name=* tag would be 
enough.


"Boy Scouts” sounds like a name, but is it the Boy Scouts of America? 
is the Mexico scouts (which are boys and girls)? is it the Boy Scouts 
of Japan?


There are, or were 'cubs' for the younger people, 'rovers' for the older 
people, guides for the girls 


The only OSMwiki on scout is for a telenav app ...
So club=scout could mean anything.



it is just a generic for all these types of organizations.

If I saw

name=Chiro Kortrijk
club=scout
operator:Chiro

I would assume it is that Kortrijk City’s meeting place for a regional 
group similar to the Boy or Girl Scouts - not that is *is* the Boy 
Scouts of Belgium.


Javbw


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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[John Willis via Tagging]

> On Jan 31, 2019, at 8:15 AM, marc marc  wrote:
> 
> Scouts and scout do maybe not have the same meaning in belgium.
> I understand club=scout (without a ending S and without an upercase)
> as the "generic" term for any scout-like club

+1 

Similar to how brand names become the name for things (kleenex, jello, etc), 
the term “scout” i think is used as a generic for all of these types of outdoor 
youth organizations. 

I think differentiating it via operator=* and the name=* tag would be enough. 

"Boy Scouts” sounds like a name, but is it the Boy Scouts of America? is the 
Mexico scouts (which are boys and girls)? is it the Boy Scouts of Japan? 

it is just a generic for all these types of organizations.

If I saw

name=Chiro Kortrijk
club=scout
operator:Chiro

I would assume it is that Kortrijk City’s meeting place for a regional group 
similar to the Boy or Girl Scouts - not that is *is* the Boy Scouts of Belgium. 

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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[marc marc]

Le 30.01.19 à 23:02, Warin a écrit :
> On 31/01/19 08:41, s8evq wrote:
>> I'm a relative new contributor

welcome.

>> "club=scout" and "club=youth".
>> What about similar organisations than Scouts? This might not exists as 
>> much in other countries, but here in Belgium we have KSA, KLJ, Chiro 
>> and Scouts (and a whole bunch more).
>> 1) Why does Scouts have it's own value in the club tag? If club=scout 
>> exists, why couldn't then club=chiro also exist?
> However club=scouts only has 57 uses in the data base.
> club=scout is >600 so that it the one to use for them.

Scouts and scout do maybe not have the same meaning in belgium.
I understand club=scout (without a ending S and without an upercase)
as the "generic" term for any scout-like club
but club=scouts as in "Les Scouts" (the name in french) of a specific 
scout club.
outside belgium, I have not idea if club=scouts have the same meaning as 
club=scout

so mayb we can extend club=scout scout=Chiro|Scouts|Guide|... (I have no 
idea about the english name of Chiro Guide Patro) and so on for every 
specific "sub-type" of scout-like club.

> There is nothing stopping you from using club=chiro

Chiro (and Scouts) is a name. did we need a club= value for every club 
name ? I don't think so.
Scouts and Guides are, for example, very close to each other that
there is a Scout and Guide Association that brings them together

Regards,
Marc
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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Tom Pfeifer]

On 30.01.2019 22:41, s8evq wrote:


2) According to the wiki there's also club=youth, but it's not used and 
amenity=community_centre should be used instead.
Reading the wiki on amenity=community_centre 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre#Differentiation): 
"When the centre is open to general audiences (...) gathering for particular 
activities, it should be tagged amenity=community_centre. When it addresses an audience 
with specific problems, and/or is staffed with professional helpers (social workers, 
nurses), amenity=social_facility would be preferred. "
Both don't fit the case here, as these places (just like scouts) are only open 
for members.


The statement is there to distinguish between facilities where people with specific problems get 
help, and those you'd visit voluntarily. Thus if everybody (maybe within a specific age group) could 
join (i.e. become a member) of the scouts, or a sports club, than amenity=community_centre would be 
suitable.


There are subtags that describe the facility closer, such as
- community_centre=youth_centre
- community_centre=club_home

or the target community, such as
community_centre:for=child

Adding club=scout does not hurt in you case.

tom

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Re: [Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[Warin]

On 31/01/19 08:41, s8evq wrote:


Hello everyone,

I'm a relative new contributor and have a question about tagging "club=scout" and 
"club=youth".

What about similar organisations than Scouts? This might not exists as much in 
other countries, but here in Belgium we have KSA, KLJ, Chiro and Scouts (and a 
whole bunch more). These organisations are very similar to how Scouts operate 
and what they stand for (perhaps a smaller emphasis on the outdoors).  If we 
look at the amount of members in Vlaanderen, they are equal, if not bigger than 
Scouts:
Chiro: 112.000 members
Scouts: 82.000 members
KSA: 32.000 members
KLJ: 22.000 members

So my question are:

1) Why does Scouts have it's own value in the club tag? If club=scout exists, 
why couldn't then club=chiro also exist?


The scouts have a very long history and world wide recognition/organisation.

I have never heard of 'chiro'.
However club=scouts only has 57 uses in the data base.
club=scout is >600 so that it the one to use for them.

club=youth is >100



Something doesn't seem right with that idea.

2) According to the wiki there's also club=youth, but it's not used and 
amenity=community_centre should be used instead.
Reading the wiki on amenity=community_centre 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre#Differentiation): 
"When the centre is open to general audiences (...) gathering for particular 
activities, it should be tagged amenity=community_centre. When it addresses an audience 
with specific problems, and/or is staffed with professional helpers (social workers, 
nurses), amenity=social_facility would be preferred. "
Both don't fit the case here, as these places (just like scouts) are only open 
for members.


Help is appreciated.


There is nothing stopping you from using club=chiro and others. But do document 
it on the OSMwiki.
They are unlikely to be rendered as anything other than a 'club' at this stage.


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[Tagging] club=scout for similar organisations

[s8evq]

Hello everyone,

I'm a relative new contributor and have a question about tagging "club=scout" 
and "club=youth". 

What about similar organisations than Scouts? This might not exists as much in 
other countries, but here in Belgium we have KSA, KLJ, Chiro and Scouts (and a 
whole bunch more). These organisations are very similar to how Scouts operate 
and what they stand for (perhaps a smaller emphasis on the outdoors).  If we 
look at the amount of members in Vlaanderen, they are equal, if not bigger than 
Scouts:
Chiro: 112.000 members
Scouts: 82.000 members
KSA: 32.000 members
KLJ: 22.000 members

So my question are:

1) Why does Scouts have it's own value in the club tag? If club=scout exists, 
why couldn't then club=chiro also exist?

Something doesn't seem right with that idea.

2) According to the wiki there's also club=youth, but it's not used and 
amenity=community_centre should be used instead. 
Reading the wiki on amenity=community_centre 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre#Differentiation):
 "When the centre is open to general audiences (...) gathering for particular 
activities, it should be tagged amenity=community_centre. When it addresses an 
audience with specific problems, and/or is staffed with professional helpers 
(social workers, nurses), amenity=social_facility would be preferred. "
Both don't fit the case here, as these places (just like scouts) are only open 
for members.


Help is appreciated.


Kind regards

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