Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
2015-02-17 14:21 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Is there any difference considering the foundation of the structure ? Towers usually have one and mast not ? everything that has to put load onto ground will need some sort of foundations, of course masts do have foundations. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
Am 17.02.2015 um 01:07 schrieb Warin: On 16/02/2015 11:33 PM, fly wrote: Be careful some mast as support for wind generators might be entered. Thought antenna vs mast might be a problem but not mast vs tower. Should have added some picture. Please have a look at the pictures on [1] and [2]: An antenna is not a mast nor a tower, just as a wind generator is not a mast nor a tower. They may be mounted on top of a mast of tower .. but they are not towers nor masts themselves. Never said that a antenna nor a wind generator are masts or towers but if you want to tag the support=* we sill need to distinguish. - I like the easy distinction between mast and tower by the guy wires. If it is technically correct .. -1 Some structures (masts?) supported by guy wires, have internal ladders .. for maintenance of the supported item. +1 Is there any difference considering the foundation of the structure ? Towers usually have one and mast not ? Cheers fly [1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selbststrahlender_Sendemast [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mast_radiator ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
2015-02-17 1:07 GMT+01:00 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com: I like the easy distinction between mast and tower by the guy wires. If it is technically correct .. actually it isn't working in all cases, there are hybrid towers (still called towers) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
2015-02-16 13:33 GMT+01:00 fly lowfligh...@googlemail.com: Thought antenna vs mast might be a problem but not mast vs tower. antenna and mast are orthogonal concepts, a mast is defining the shape, an antenna the function, that's easy ;-) cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
On 16/02/2015 11:33 PM, fly wrote: Be careful some mast as support for wind generators might be entered. Thought antenna vs mast might be a problem but not mast vs tower. Cheers fly An antenna is not a mast nor a tower, just as a wind generator is not a mast nor a tower. They may be mounted on top of a mast of tower .. but they are not towers nor masts themselves. - I like the easy distinction between mast and tower by the guy wires. If it is technically correct .. Some structures (masts?) supported by guy wires, have internal ladders .. for maintenance of the supported item. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
Am 16.02.2015 um 11:32 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2015-02-16 4:25 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I've been taught that a mast is usually not self supporting, ie. has guy wires while a tower is self supporting. +1 -1 Usually depends on the construction and height. Also, the wiki definition needs changing IMO. Maybe they meant to say, a few meters in diameter. +1 We have height=*. How to we define the difference between mast and pole ? Do we need support=mast ? Thing is that in German we have (slightly) different usage of these terms, there are the words - Turm (tower in some cases): typically something accessible by humans (with stairs, not just a ladder), if its masonry it will always be a Turm, while steel lattice could be either, but for power towers, these will never be called Turm in German but Mast - Mast something not accessible (except maintenance by technicians, typically no stairs but just a ladder), can be guy wired, but doesn't have to (used e.g. for most technical installations like support for antennas, street lamps (i.e. also cases where English uses the words pole, pylon or rod), ships, flags, telco wires, power towers, ... de:Mast is always something tall and thin, while de:Turm is always accessible, but can also be not very high (e.g. defensive towers of ancient fortifications in some cases). The current definition in the wiki almost reflects this German usage 100% (no wonder, apparently written by a German), but not completely because there are very high guy wired structures like antennas, e.g. this one would be called Mast in German: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVLY-TV_mast I think the main difference is that a Mast cannot be entered, while a Turm is intended to be entered by humans. Be careful some mast as support for wind generators might be entered. Thought antenna vs mast might be a problem but not mast vs tower. Cheers fly ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
Am 16.02.2015 um 13:33 schrieb fly: Am 16.02.2015 um 11:32 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: 2015-02-16 4:25 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I've been taught that a mast is usually not self supporting, ie. has guy wires while a tower is self supporting. +1 -1 Usually depends on the construction and height. Sorry, tried to write: Usually depends on the construction and diametre but not height. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
2015-02-16 4:25 GMT+01:00 Dave Swarthout daveswarth...@gmail.com: On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I've been taught that a mast is usually not self supporting, ie. has guy wires while a tower is self supporting. +1 Also, the wiki definition needs changing IMO. Maybe they meant to say, a few meters in diameter. Thing is that in German we have (slightly) different usage of these terms, there are the words - Turm (tower in some cases): typically something accessible by humans (with stairs, not just a ladder), if its masonry it will always be a Turm, while steel lattice could be either, but for power towers, these will never be called Turm in German but Mast - Mast something not accessible (except maintenance by technicians, typically no stairs but just a ladder), can be guy wired, but doesn't have to (used e.g. for most technical installations like support for antennas, street lamps (i.e. also cases where English uses the words pole, pylon or rod), ships, flags, telco wires, power towers, ... de:Mast is always something tall and thin, while de:Turm is always accessible, but can also be not very high (e.g. defensive towers of ancient fortifications in some cases). The current definition in the wiki almost reflects this German usage 100% (no wonder, apparently written by a German), but not completely because there are very high guy wired structures like antennas, e.g. this one would be called Mast in German: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVLY-TV_mast I think the main difference is that a Mast cannot be entered, while a Turm is intended to be entered by humans. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Mihkel Rämmel r...@hot.ee wrote: Does anyone have objections to adding a second picture of mobile mast to man_made=mast on wiki and clarifying that masts can be higher than 'only a few meters'. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Mobile_communications_mast.JPG The wiki mast vs tower definition appears wrong to me and wikipedia. I've been taught that a mast is usually not self supporting, ie. has guy wires while a tower is self supporting. Wikipedia [1] states However, in structural engineering terms, a tower is a self-supporting or cantilevered http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantilever structure, while a mast http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyed_mast is held up by stays or guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy-wire. While the OSM wiki states A man made mast is a small tower of only a few meters. It is often built from concrete or steel and only for a single application like a mobile phone base station. A tower is accessible and provides platforms, whereas a mast only offers ladder steps to climb it. I think the wiki need changing, along with your new image, which is clearly a mast. Clifford [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_masts_and_towers [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dmast -- @osm_seattle osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
Does anyone have objections to adding a second picture of mobile mast to man_made=mast on wiki and clarifying that masts can be higher than 'only a few meters'. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Mobile_communications_mast.JPG Mihkel ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
Am 15.02.2015 um 21:25 schrieb Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us: I've been taught that a mast is usually not self supporting, ie. has guy wires while a tower is self supporting. +1 cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] high mobile masts on man_made=mast
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 4:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I've been taught that a mast is usually not self supporting, ie. has guy wires while a tower is self supporting. +1 Also, the wiki definition needs changing IMO. Maybe they meant to say, a few meters in diameter. -- Dave Swarthout Homer, Alaska Chiang Mai, Thailand Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
