Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Warin]

On 23-Mar-17 08:52 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Micah Cochran > wrote:


You might use the "seasonal" key, which seems like it might
already be used to indicate if a highway is open or closed
seasonally.  I can't find a proposal for that use.

This could be seasonal=spring;summer;autumn

There are 54,768 instances of seasonal=yes, which seems fairly
useless unless you are referring to natural phenomenon (streams).


Uhm, it's less than general, but sometimes obvious in context. In my 
part of the world, a seasonal road is one where they don't trouble to 
plow the snow. Sometimes up in the peaks, that means the road will be 
impassable from mid-October to mid-May in a severe year. However, most 
of the seasonal roads are posted "open April 15-October 31" but in 
practice they will open as soon as they can get crews in to clean up 
the inevitable spring rock slides and stay open until there's too much 
snow for a police car.


I have no idea how to encode all that in tagging. It depends on the 
weather and the judgment of the highway department.


Frequently things are tagged open 9 to 5 .. but  some open a little 
earlier and close a little later depending on staff and customers.
So I would use the 'open April 15-October 31' as the tag to use as this 
would give a certain route,
a non local may not be a good judge of snow conditions for closing date 
nor the opening activity.
You could add a note to the actual conditions .. but I don't think it 
will render in any usefull way, better to stick to the 'open April 
15-October 31'.
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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Kevin Kenny]

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Micah Cochran  wrote:

> You might use the "seasonal" key, which seems like it might already be
> used to indicate if a highway is open or closed seasonally.  I can't find a
> proposal for that use.
>
> This could be seasonal=spring;summer;autumn
>
> There are 54,768 instances of seasonal=yes, which seems fairly useless
> unless you are referring to natural phenomenon (streams).
>

Uhm, it's less than general, but sometimes obvious in context. In my part
of the world, a seasonal road is one where they don't trouble to plow the
snow. Sometimes up in the peaks, that means the road will be impassable
from mid-October to mid-May in a severe year. However, most of the seasonal
roads are posted "open April 15-October 31" but in practice they will open
as soon as they can get crews in to clean up the inevitable spring rock
slides and stay open until there's too much snow for a police car.

I have no idea how to encode all that in tagging. It depends on the weather
and the judgment of the highway department.
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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Micah Cochran]

You might use the "seasonal" key, which seems like it might already be used
to indicate if a highway is open or closed seasonally.  I can't find a
proposal for that use.

This could be seasonal=spring;summer;autumn

There are 54,768 instances of seasonal=yes, which seems fairly useless
unless you are referring to natural phenomenon (streams).

However, I wouldn't count on routing software to recognize this key.  It
would be nice if the software would warned you that this route might be
closed for the season.

I would use that tagging scheme at your own risk.

Regards,
Micah
-- 

*Micah Cochran*

GIS Coordinator  -  City of Athens  -  Engineering Services & Community
Development Dept.  -  Dept. of Public Works Building  -  1600 ELM ST W,
Athens, AL   - geo:34.820608,-86.991474 -  p.
256-233-2224  -  f. 256-233-8791 - www.athensalabama.us

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Hakuch  wrote:

> The road after this point (northwards) is closed in the winter season.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/917369#map=17/50.79221/15.32156
>
> But like Petr says, its each year another time. I had the bad luck to
> route through this street with maps.me because it is not tagged for
> 2017, OSRM seems to not care for the year and does not route there. But
> graphhopper and mapzen does. And Maps.me, and because it is really a
> dead end when you went up there by car its a long way backwards..
>
> So, is there a solution how to deal with roads like this, where you know
> that the road will be closed but you dont know the exact time? Because
> like here, people will forget to tag it for each year.
>
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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Lorenzo "Beba" Beltrami]

2017-03-16 22:23 GMT+01:00 yo paseopor :

> Idea:
>
> access:conditional=no @ (winter)
> access:conditional=no @ (snow)
> note=check availability access during first trimester
>

+1

I remember also a past discussion on this:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-November/030681.html

Lorenzo
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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[yo paseopor]

Idea:

access:conditional=no @ (winter)
access:conditional=no @ (snow)
note=check availability access during first trimester
...

Salut i mapes
yopaseopor
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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Hakuch]

On 16.03.2017 19:32, Topographe Fou wrote:
> I believe we still need one user somewhere to update the data each year... I 
> suggest to have a scheduled bot which detect obsolete conditions value (based 
> on actual date) and automatically create a note on the map like "Obsolete 
> conditional access value, please update the feature" .

+1 nice idea



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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Topographe Fou]

I believe we still need one user somewhere to update the data each year... I 
suggest to have a scheduled bot which detect obsolete conditions value (based 
on actual date) and automatically create a note on the map like "Obsolete 
conditional access value, please update the feature" .

Otherwise as far as I know Maps.me does not use OSRM anymore since end of 2016. 
They changed to another routing engine (which leads to an amazingly long list 
of routing issues).

LeTopographeFou 


  Message original  
De: hak...@posteo.de
Envoyé: 16 mars 2017 3:03 PM
À: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Répondre à: tagging@openstreetmap.org
Objet: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

The road after this point (northwards) is closed in the winter season.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/917369#map=17/50.79221/15.32156

But like Petr says, its each year another time. I had the bad luck to
route through this street with maps.me because it is not tagged for
2017, OSRM seems to not care for the year and does not route there. But
graphhopper and mapzen does. And Maps.me, and because it is really a
dead end when you went up there by car its a long way backwards..

So, is there a solution how to deal with roads like this, where you know
that the road will be closed but you dont know the exact time? Because
like here, people will forget to tag it for each year.

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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Hakuch]

On 16.03.2017 15:13, Daniel Hofmann wrote:
>> OSRM seems to not care for the year and does not route there.
> 
> OSRM does not route you over barriers, which there is on that way:
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/73331194#map=18/50.79082/15.32277=D

oh I forgot that I put this one there. Strange that graphhopper and
mapzen route over this barrier. I deleted now the access=no because I
actually dont know if the road is still closed there. Iam still waiting
for Petrs answer.

The tagging Iam talking about is connected to this road:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/30899782#map=15/50.8002/15.3082=D



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Re: [Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Daniel Hofmann]

> OSRM seems to not care for the year and does not route there.

OSRM does not route you over barriers, which there is on that way:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/73331194#map=18/50.79082/15.32277=D

It has nothing to do with way tags or conditional tags from what I can see.
Also check out the debug map:

http://map.project-osrm.org/debug/#13.26/50.7756/15.3515

OSRM does have an experimental opening hours grammar parser for conditional
tags but it's not (yet) in use by default.

Cheers,
Daniel J H


On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Hakuch  wrote:

> The road after this point (northwards) is closed in the winter season.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/917369#map=17/50.79221/15.32156
>
> But like Petr says, its each year another time. I had the bad luck to
> route through this street with maps.me because it is not tagged for
> 2017, OSRM seems to not care for the year and does not route there. But
> graphhopper and mapzen does. And Maps.me, and because it is really a
> dead end when you went up there by car its a long way backwards..
>
> So, is there a solution how to deal with roads like this, where you know
> that the road will be closed but you dont know the exact time? Because
> like here, people will forget to tag it for each year.
>
> ___
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
>
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[Tagging] how to care about different seasonal road close?

[Hakuch]

The road after this point (northwards) is closed in the winter season.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/917369#map=17/50.79221/15.32156

But like Petr says, its each year another time. I had the bad luck to
route through this street with maps.me because it is not tagged for
2017, OSRM seems to not care for the year and does not route there. But
graphhopper and mapzen does. And Maps.me, and because it is really a
dead end when you went up there by car its a long way backwards..

So, is there a solution how to deal with roads like this, where you know
that the road will be closed but you dont know the exact time? Because
like here, people will forget to tag it for each year.


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