Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
2014-09-18 11:44 GMT+02:00 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: I think the consensus is to stay as simple as possible and use only one tag to say that there is grass on this piece of land. I think the consensus is to describe any property you like in OSM. Using only one tag to summarize a lot of aspects is hardly ever a good idea, because it limits the way to use the data and makes contributors life more complicated and not easier (because they have to weight a lot of aspects instead of directly tagging what they see). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
Il giorno 18/set/2014, alle ore 07:57, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at ha scritto: Say, how does landcover=grass differ from surface=grass? I agree that in this case it doesn't make a difference, besides that surface is typically used as an attribute for highways and not as a feature on its own. surface = trees isn't that nice as a tag though, while landcover fits well cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
On 18.09.14 00:33, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: from landuse, meadow would imply grass for me Meadow IMO means there is some usage taken from the grass/hay (Weide, Futterwiese,...). I use landuse=grass in urban areas (Grünstreifen am Straßenrand), for grass areas that are not a garden but there usage is just to have a (nicht-versiegelte Fläche; whatever that means in English) green spot there. Another usage: eine Böschung (whatever that means in English? batter?). Those are man-made, not natural. And landuse makes no sense there, for instance a 1m x 1m landuse of grass around a tree. /al ceterum censeo landusem esse delendam ;) (for all the neo-Romans here ;) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
Hi! 2014-09-17 23:44 GMT+02:00 Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl: We (in Polish forum) think, that changing landuse=grass into natural=grass would make better tagging scheme, since grass is seldom a landuse (like the tree is natural=tree, not the amenity or something else). How do you find this idea? Not good. Contrary to other people I think that the readability of tags is most important, otherwise we could simply use tags like ptn=pnx or road=flying_saucer and define that those tags mean grass. Both could be processed perfectly fine but obviously doesn't make any sense at all. A while ago I wrote down some thoughts about a cleanup of landuse/natural/surface with the intention of clearly separating those tags and make it more easy to understand their meaning. I have to admit that I lost interest in this area so my writing just sits there and waits for someone to adopt it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/landcover . The first section When to use ... would be the most important in your case. Therefore I would recommend landcover=grass in your case. If this area is also used to e.g. produce hay I would also use landuse=meadow. Best regards, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
Il giorno 18/set/2014, alle ore 09:30, Martin Vonwald imagic@gmail.com ha scritto: Not good. Contrary to other people I think that the readability of tags is most important, otherwise we could simply use tags like ptn=pnx or road=flying_saucer and define that those tags mean grass. Both could be processed perfectly fine but obviously doesn't make any sense at all. A while ago I wrote down some thoughts about a cleanup of landuse/natural/surface with the intention of clearly separating those tags and make it more easy to understand their meaning. I have to admit that I lost interest in this area so my writing just sits there and waits for someone to adopt it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Imagic/landcover . The first section When to use ... would be the most important in your case. Therefore I would recommend landcover=grass in your case. If this area is also used to e.g. produce hay I would also use landuse=meadow. +1 to everything, especially the clearly separating part cheers, MArtin___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at wrote: 1. I thought the general consensus was to start using landcover for this type of object. No consensus. I strongly oppose landcover=* in view of its weak definition, and because it invents nothing new. Say, how does landcover=grass differ from surface=grass? I think the consensus is to stay as simple as possible and use only one tag to say that there is grass on this piece of land. Most of the contributors don't care if the magic keyword is landuse or natural or surface or landcover for that and most of them wouldn't agree to draw different polygons or use several key to make such small subtleties. Pieren ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
On 18.09.14 09:07, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: wouldn't these be better tagged with road or highway as landuse values? Typically they are part of the road. We probably misunderstand us... This here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.20528/16.22363 In the south are Böschungen to the Westautobahn. In the north named Holzhausenplatz, it's just grass between streets. And here is some grass around trees: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.21408/16.24047 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.20638/16.25281 It's not road, it's not sidewalk, its Grünstreifen (bzw. winzige Teile davon). Ideally this would be landcover=grass and being rendered green. The usage just is to be grass there (Grünfläche). /al ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
On 18.09.14 09:07, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: wouldn't these be better tagged with road or highway as landuse values? Typically they are part of the road. We probably misunderstand us... This here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/48.20528/16.22363 In the south are Böschungen to the Westautobahn. In the north named Holzhausenplatz, it's just grass between streets. And here is some grass around trees: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.21408/16.24047 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/48.20638/16.25281 It's not road, it's not sidewalk, its Grünstreifen (bzw. winzige Teile davon). Ideally this would be landcover=grass and being rendered green. The usage just is to be grass there (Grünfläche). /al ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
On 18.09.2014 08:24, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Il giorno 18/set/2014, alle ore 07:57, Friedrich Volkmann b...@volki.at ha scritto: Say, how does landcover=grass differ from surface=grass? I agree that in this case it doesn't make a difference, besides that surface is typically used as an attribute for highways and not as a feature on its own. surface = trees isn't that nice as a tag though, while landcover fits well Why does it fit well, and under which circumstances? Land is never covered by trees alone. Trees are usually accompanied by bushes, grass and other herbs, moss, algues, insects, etc. Alternatively, all of these (including trees) could be considered part of the land. In this case, landcover can only be hydrosphere and/or atmosphere. So what's your definition of land and landcover? -- Friedrich K. Volkmann http://www.volki.at/ Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
Hello, We (in Polish forum) think, that changing landuse=grass into natural=grass would make better tagging scheme, since grass is seldom a landuse (like the tree is natural=tree, not the amenity or something else). How do you find this idea? -- Mambałaga ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
Il giorno 17/set/2014, alle ore 23:44, Daniel Koć daniel@koć.pl ha scritto: We (in Polish forum) think, that changing landuse=grass into natural=grass would make better tagging scheme, since grass is seldom a landuse from landuse, meadow would imply grass for me natural is mostly describing a topographic feature like a tree, a peak, a bay, a beach, a cliff, wetland, scrub etc. - grass does not fit so well (neither do mud or sand btw.). The much more used natural=grassland does fit into the system. Or maybe landcover=grass if this is the only information? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
On 17/09/2014 22:44, Daniel Koć wrote: Hello, We (in Polish forum) think, that changing landuse=grass into natural=grass would make better tagging scheme, since grass is seldom a landuse (like the tree is natural=tree, not the amenity or something else). How do you find this idea? 1. I thought the general consensus was to start using landcover for this type of object. 2. Some diversity in tags is required, otherwise, if boiled down, all objects would either be natural or man_made. Dave F. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] landuse=grass = natural=grass
On 18.09.2014 01:01, Dave F. wrote: On 17/09/2014 22:44, Daniel Koć wrote: We (in Polish forum) think, that changing landuse=grass into natural=grass would make better tagging scheme, since grass is seldom a landuse (like the tree is natural=tree, not the amenity or something else). How do you find this idea? Fine, but landuse=grass, landuse=meadow, natural=grassland and surface=grass are all in use. No need for just another synonymous tag. Consider tags as codes as in a programming language. It's fine if they are self-explanatory, but more important is a clear definition and consistent usage. 1. I thought the general consensus was to start using landcover for this type of object. No consensus. I strongly oppose landcover=* in view of its weak definition, and because it invents nothing new. Say, how does landcover=grass differ from surface=grass? -- Friedrich K. Volkmann http://www.volki.at/ Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
