Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 26 Mar 2017, at 17:43, Marc Gemis wrote: > > I've been adding maybe hundreds of stop & give ways signs if you're mapping signs (traffic_sign=*) I think you should map them where they are, if you map the effects of signs, map it to where it

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-26 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 26 Mar 2017, at 09:48, Paul Johnson wrote: > > Not to sound like a broken record, but what exactly would be so complicated > about adapting the existing and adopted enforcement style relations to stop > and give way devices? This completely

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-26 Thread Marc Gemis
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 12:57 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > generally it is unsafe to rely on a "direction" like forward or backward as > tag on a node. Nodes do not have directions, and there is no relation from a > node to a single way, the relation is from a way to a

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-26 Thread Paul Johnson
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > 2017-03-23 10:30 GMT+01:00 Jean-Marc Liotier : > >> As the "complex intersections" section of the highway=traffic_signals >> page describes a gradation of model complexity >>

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-25 Thread Greg Troxel
Tod Fitch writes: > Quoted sections have been edited down to only show parts I am responding to: > >> On Mar 22, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: >> >> For highway=traffic_signals, the normal situation is that it's on a >> node, and affects all ways

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-23 Thread yo paseopor
On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 1:41 AM, Tod Fitch wrote: > > “stop:forward=yes” & “stop:backward=yes” seem like they are putting a > value in the key as the stuff to the right of the equals may never be > anything other than “yes”. On the “lanes:forward” and “lanes:backward” keys

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-23 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2017-03-23 15:47 GMT+01:00 Jean-Marc Liotier : > I'm not operating a routing system so maybe someone who is > might offer his opinion on that point > in another thread a few days ago there was a comment by Daniel Hofmann who works at mapbox on OSRM:

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-23 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier
So, summing up the ideas expressed so far, in the example case of a stop sign on a two-ways way (not an all-ways stop), we have: 1- highway=stop+direction=forward node on the way to an intersection - Advantages: simple, uses the well-known direction=* tag, easy for routers to interpret -

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-23 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2017-03-23 10:30 GMT+01:00 Jean-Marc Liotier : > As the "complex intersections" section of the highway=traffic_signals > page describes a gradation of model complexity > (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway% > 3Dtraffic_signals#Complex_intersections), > maybe

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-23 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 23 Mar 2017, at 01:41, Tod Fitch wrote: > > And if not on an intersection node then it should be placed at the stop line. > [2] I don’t think we are likely to have a stop line in the middle of an > intersection. :) think of a cycleway or a

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-23 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017 00:57:44 +0100 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > generally it is unsafe to rely on a "direction" like forward or > backward as tag on a node. Nodes do not have directions, and there is > no relation from a node to a single way, the relation is from a way >

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-22 Thread Tod Fitch
> On Mar 22, 2017, at 4:51 PM, yo paseopor wrote: > > Anyone else with an opinion ? Two of us might be the very beginning of a > consensus but we need a little more before even putting a proposal > page up on the wiki... > > I think to include direction inside the tag

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-22 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
generally it is unsafe to rely on a "direction" like forward or backward as tag on a node. Nodes do not have directions, and there is no relation from a node to a single way, the relation is from a way to a node and many ways can reference the same node, that's not an error. Will it become

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-22 Thread yo paseopor
> > Anyone else with an opinion ? Two of us might be the very beginning of a > consensus but we need a little more before even putting a proposal > page up on the wiki... > I think to include direction inside the tag with a subkey :forward :backward following the scheme for lanes and so one are

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-22 Thread Tod Fitch
Quoted sections have been edited down to only show parts I am responding to: > On Mar 22, 2017, at 5:37 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: > > For highway=traffic_signals, the normal situation is that it's on a > node, and affects all ways entering the node. Or it's on a way and > affects

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-22 Thread Greg Troxel
-- Dave Swarthout writes: > This is embarrassing but relevant to this conversation. I've been mapping > intensely for several years but adding stop signs was something I rarely > did. I only started adding stop signs within the last year. Probably I started because

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-22 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:46 PM, LeTopographeFou wrote: > In real life a traffic light is more often associated to another device > such as a camera, a pedestrian light... than stop signs which stands > generally on their own. So direction=* might be enought for

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2017-03-21 0:36 GMT+01:00 yo paseopor : > 2-putting the node at the side visually is more realistic...but it is so > unuseful as be a independent node, so it is better to put it IN the way and > mark its position with subkeys or other tags as side relatives to this way > the

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-21 Thread Dave Swarthout
This is embarrassing but relevant to this conversation. I've been mapping intensely for several years but adding stop signs was something I rarely did. There's so much else that needs attention that I wasn't even following this thread. Then today I was using Osmose to correct errors in Alaska and

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-21 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier
On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:47:46 -0400 Kevin Kenny wrote: > > If there is a traffic signal at an intersection, the default is that > traffic from any direction will be facing a signal. Yes, but only in the case of tagging the traffic signals at the intersection node. If

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-20 Thread yo paseopor
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Kevin Kenny wrote: > > By contrast, traffic signs are inherently directional. Without a direction > indication, we really have no way of conveying "traffic on the side > street has to come to a stop/give way here; traffic on the main

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-20 Thread Kevin Kenny
On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 12:19 PM, Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: > Given how widely used the direction tag is for highway=* signs, why > isn't it also applied to highway=traffic_signals ? Does > traffic_signals:direction=* bear additional meaning that direction=* > does not convey ?

Re: [Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-20 Thread LeTopographeFou
On a node, traffic_signals:direction=* applies only to the traffic signals while direction=* applies to all other tags which may be associated with a direction (camera...). This is the additional meaning. Let say that traffic_signals:direction=* is a more explicit tag than direction=* (see

[Tagging] traffic_signals:direction=* vs. direction=*

2017-03-20 Thread Jean-Marc Liotier
traffic_signals:direction=* is used on 27278 highway=traffic_signals objects: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/highway=traffic_signals#combinations highway=stop is combined with a direction tag on about 77000 objects (direction=backward, direction=forward and the literal direction=*)