Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread s8evq
> Nit picking.. No worries. First I wanted to wait with editing the actual content of the tagging scheme. But now that we're on the topic, we could just as well fine-tune it. > name:xy is not the local name but the name in some language, usually not the > local language > loc_name is for the

Re: [Tagging] How to distinguish public and private offices?

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 04:32, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > I suppose access=private isn’t wrong, but it seems incomplete: many > government offices do not legally exclude the public, but also do not > offer public services. For example, the offices of members of the > American legislature are

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 05:33, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > Is there evidence or documentation that the accepted and historic > method of documenting new, unused or little-used tags is to create a > Tag:key=value page, without discussion first? > > I'm new here, but it

[Tagging] insurance:health, staff_count:nurses, staff_count:doctors tags documented as a bad idea

2019-08-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:staff_count:doctors#Voting https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:staff_count:nurses#Voting

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread ael
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 10:26:55AM +0200, Christoph Hormann wrote: > On Thursday 15 August 2019, Warin wrote: > > What is a beach? > > * there are waves breaking, at least at some times, at the water line. > * ground has a significant slope so waves roll up the beach and water I was going to

Re: [Tagging] How to distinguish public and private offices?

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 12:44, dcapillae wrote: > > I would use "opening_hours=*" [1] or "reservation=*" [2] to indicate if > there is a visiting hours or if it is necessary to make an appointment in a > private office that does not normally provide services to the general > public >

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 13:06, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > If there is no slope in the area between the low and high tide line, > and no wave action, you usually get a wetland=tidalflat (mud flat), or > salt marsh, or mangroves, depending on the climate, not a beach. > Sometimes wetland even if

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
Got an example? I also note that the example I gave has a 'spur' and that might be a good role name for my 'access tack' things. On 15/08/19 19:56, Peter Elderson wrote: I strongly prefer to have one relation for the main route, and separate relations for alternatives. Put those together in

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Thursday 15 August 2019, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > In contrast, the current text of the wiki page "Any tags you like > suggests creating a new tag for bird nests (as an example) with > Key:endangered_nest=Siberian_flying_squirrel - besides suggesting > using non-standard capitalization in the

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 05:33, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > (I don't think such abandoned tag proposal pages > should be deleted, as long as the tag is still in the database, but > the status change is helpful.) I would extend this to all tags that have been at least once

Re: [Tagging] How to distinguish public and private offices?

2019-08-15 Thread dcapillae
Hi, Joseph Eisenberg wrote > I suppose access=private isn’t wrong, but it seems incomplete: many > government offices do not legally exclude the public, but also do not > offer public services. For example, the offices of members of the American > legislature are clearly not public, but anyone

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread s8evq
I have added both comments in the temporary wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_scheme_hiking_walking? For me, the distinction between route=foot and route=hiking is not that important. I agree with Peter Elderson that we have many tags in OSM that help somebody decide how

Re: [Tagging] New property Key:walk-in for amenities like clinics, barbers, hair salons that offer walk-in appointments/service?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 15:54, marc marc wrote: > > - keep booking=* for the few booking.com urls that currently exist IMHO we should not reserve tags named with a common word like „booking“ for a commercial service. Their key could be “booking.com” (provided we want these

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Kevin Kenny
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 9:00 AM Andy Townsend wrote: > > The ways in the main relation should form one continuous sorted (sortable) > > route, > > No. Don't assume that route ways are sorted in OSM as they usually aren't. With the advent of waymarkedtrails.org, more and more hiking routes are

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread s8evq
OK, I'm not against transclusion. I think it makes sense. When the table is ready and nobody has further comments, I can have a look at how to do it practically. To split it up even further so the table is useful for other route=... I'm a bit hesitant. I'm not sure if there's enough material

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Aug 2019, 13:33 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > > On 15. Aug 2019, at 05:33, Joseph Eisenberg <> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > >>> "The ideal of forcing a proposal ... does not fly with me due to the >>> probability of

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
I can't believe I didn't notice the misspelling. Well, that is a major problem with this value. How about "craft=artist" then? The tag "craft=atelier" was described as for any type of artist: "workshop of a ...professional artist in the fine or decorative arts" Wikipedia says "In art, the

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 13:53, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > What is perfectly fine, as long as proposals were actually abandoned. what is your definition of “abandoned” here? E.g. if a page is in draft or proposed status and has not been brought to voting and not been

Re: [Tagging] Bicycle kitchens, community centres that offer bicycle repairs etc

2019-08-15 Thread Jmapb via Tagging
On 8/14/2019 6:45 PM, dcapillae wrote: Obviusly, «amenity=community_centre» Sounds correct. For anything that's not a bicycle shop but still does bicycle repairs (I've seen cafes, car repair shops, outdoor shops, and even a church with this service), consider just adding the

Re: [Tagging] New property Key:walk-in for amenities like clinics, barbers, hair salons that offer walk-in appointments/service?

2019-08-15 Thread marc marc
Le 15.08.19 à 15:26, Dave F via Tagging a écrit : > How about using booking? > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Abooking we talk a few days ago to : - move value used as in reservation=* into this tag to avoid duplicate tag with the same meaning - keep booking=* for the few booking.com

Re: [Tagging] Bicycle kitchens, community centres that offer bicycle repairs etc

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 15:49, Jmapb via Tagging > wrote: > > For anything that's not a bicycle shop but still does bicycle repairs > (I've seen cafes, car repair shops, outdoor shops, and even a church > with this service), consider just adding the >

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 14:16, Paul Allen wrote: > > sense for house painters, it should be office=painter (or, better, > office=decorator). > If I want somebody to paint my house I expect him to apply paint to my house, > not to his > own office, so he doesn't (normally)

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
Op do 15 aug. 2019 om 15:00 schreef Andy Townsend : > On 15/08/2019 10:56, Peter Elderson wrote: > > ... So the lowest level always contains only ways, the higher level > contains only relations. > > Please don't make things more complicated than they need to be. Most > hiking routes are just a

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
The key "educational" has only been used 25 times, mainly "educational=yes", and does not have a wiki page, so it would be best to remove it from the route pages. "state" is also undocumented, except for "state=alternate". - Joseph On 8/15/19, s8evq wrote: > OK, I'm not against transclusion. I

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
If there is no slope in the area between the low and high tide line, and no wave action, you usually get a wetland=tidalflat (mud flat), or salt marsh, or mangroves, depending on the climate, not a beach. - Joseph On 8/15/19, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 12:41, ael wrote: > >> >>

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Andy Townsend
On 15/08/2019 10:56, Peter Elderson wrote: ... So the lowest level always contains only ways, the higher level contains only relations. Please don't make things more complicated than they need to be. Most hiking routes are just a single relation and are best left that way. The ways in

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 15:26, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > How about "craft=artist" then? The tag "craft=atelier" was described > as for any type of artist: "workshop of a ...professional artist in > the fine or decorative arts" I would not have thought to put artists

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
Sarah: > There is relatively few software that can handle hierarchic relations. One could argue that putting alternatives in separate relations makes it actually harder to access those. I think it's fair to say there is almost no software that does anything with route relations except rendering

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone On 15. Aug 2019, at 05:33, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: >> "The ideal of forcing a proposal ... does not fly with me due to the >> probability of being cast as 'abandoned'." > > Using the proposal namespace should not force the original page author > to do anything else in the

Re: [Tagging] How to distinguish public and private offices?

2019-08-15 Thread Andrew Harvey
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 07:32, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > Unfortunately many office=* tags represent something that is accessible - > for example > office=insurance is used far more often than shop=insurance (what is > causing throuble > as there are > > - actual offices of companies without

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Thursday 15 August 2019, ael wrote: > > I was going to comment that a beach has to meet the water at the same > level. That is maybe sort of implied above? As opposed to a cliff or > even wall. The beach being composed of loose material and being formed by water waves implies the beach and

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 14:28, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > I can't believe I didn't notice the misspelling. Well, that is a major > problem with this value. > Not so much if one uses editor presets. The fact that so few know what it means is a bigger problem, but potentially soluble via editor

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 13:29, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > of the new page mentions that this may be a problem because > amenity=studio is also used for TV, Radio and Music recording studios. yes, IMHO we should completely avoid the term “studio”, as it can refer to lots

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
So I mentioned above that it seems that craft=, building=, office=, shop= and sport= values are frequently added to the "Map Features" list page without discussion. Today a new wiki page was created for Tag:craft=artelier and the tag was added to Template:Map_Features:craft, which adds this tag

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
I agree that they should be documented. It's true that it can be hard to find proposal page features when searching the wiki, but I find it hard to find anything with the current search feature (often it's easier to use taginfo and find the wiki links that way). There was a suggestion back in

[Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-15 Thread Sarah Hoffmann
Hi, (making this a new topic) On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 11:56:30AM +0200, Peter Elderson wrote: > I strongly prefer to have one relation for the main route, and separate > relations for alternatives. Put those together in a relation with roles for > the member relations, not for individual ways.

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 12:41, ael wrote: > > I was going to comment that a beach has to meet the water at the same > level. That is maybe sort of implied above? As opposed to a cliff or > even wall. > With a cliff the high water and low water marks would be coincident, or very nearly so.

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 12:31, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > Today a new wiki page was created for Tag:craft=artelier and the tag > was added to Template:Map_Features:craft, which adds this tag to the > Map Features page. It's been used 15 times. In comparison, studio=art > has been used 13 times,

Re: [Tagging] New property Key:walk-in for amenities like clinics, barbers, hair salons that offer walk-in appointments/service?

2019-08-15 Thread Dave F via Tagging
How about using booking? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Abooking DaveF On 15/08/2019 03:36, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: Another user has proposed the Key walk-in=* to specify if an amenity, like a healthcare facility, sees people on a walk-in basis or not. In particular it's for medical

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal

2019-08-15 Thread Dave F via Tagging
On 31/07/2019 08:20, Warin wrote: "Any tag you like" is one of the OSM mantras. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like To be clearer it should be "Any tag you like.. to describe something different" If a valid tag is in use - use that. Cheers DaveF

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 13:53, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > For many popular tags there are abandoned proposals, tags itself are in > active use. „many popular tags“ have been formally proposed, have not been voted on, and are still in active use, with a significantly

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 15:40, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > I agree painter is ambiguous, but office is about an office, while the > place of a decorator would probably not just be an office but contain all > the tools and paint and stuff they need to do their work. > Yes, but under the

Re: [Tagging] reservation<>booking (was: New property Key:walk-in for amenities like clinics, barbers, hair salons that offer walk-in appointments/service?)

2019-08-15 Thread marc marc
Le 15.08.19 à 16:28, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : >> On 15. Aug 2019, at 15:54, marc marc wrote: >> >> - keep booking=* for the few booking.com urls that currently exist > > IMHO we should not reserve tags named with a common word like „booking“ for a > commercial service. Their key could be

[Tagging] Where should

2019-08-15 Thread Leif Rasmussen
*Was Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach* *> that then clashes with OSM Coastline, which is taken as the High Tide mark* I was under the impression that the definition of the coastline was the average between high and low, not the high tide mark, based on what I had read on some wiki page. I

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
Where/to what exactly do you apply the role? Mvg Peter Elderson > Op 15 aug. 2019 om 01:20 heeft Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> het volgende > geschreven: > > It would be usefull to document the method of including alternate, side > trips and access tracks to these routes. > > At the moment

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
I strongly prefer to have one relation for the main route, and separate relations for alternatives. Put those together in a relation with roles for the member relations, not for individual ways. So the lowest level always contains only ways, the higher level contains only relations. The ways

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 14:50, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 15/08/19 14:16, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Main problem with such definition is that strip of concrete/asphalt along > shore > is not a beach. > > I thought about dunes when I claimed that "beach is not > always

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
For determining their outfit, people/renderers/planners better look at the roads and paths in the route, elevation, that kind of thing, within the section they plan to do. Let them draw their own conclusions from that. General classification a priori of the entire route is not helpful to me.

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 02:09, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 15/08/19 09:37, Paul Allen wrote: > > Around the outskirts of my town there are also several footpaths which, at > least in part, go > across fields. Again, not walking routes, just short cuts. They could > probably be

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 15.08.19 04:18, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > In contrast, the current text of the wiki page "Any tags you like > suggests creating a new tag for bird nests (as an example) with > Key:endangered_nest=Siberian_flying_squirrel - besides suggesting > using non-standard capitalization in the

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 15/08/19 16:40, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: Re: > “It would usually be "the area above the Low Tide mark” Agreed. Many people map this way, which means that the part of the beach between the low tide and hight tide lines is outside of the coastline. The Openstreetmap-carto style was recently

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 15/08/19 17:00, Peter Elderson wrote: Where/to what exactly do you apply the role? In the relation. See https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1388126 Here the 'normal' members are simple ways with no role, these form the route itself. Those that have a relationship role of 'alternate'

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Christoph Hormann
On Thursday 15 August 2019, Warin wrote: > What is a beach? > > [...] The question you actually wanted to ask i think is what does natural=beach mean in OSM. This distinction between the meaning of a tag in OSM and the meaning of the terms used for key and value in English language is very

Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach

2019-08-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
Re: > “It would usually be "the area above the Low Tide mark” Agreed. Many people map this way, which means that the part of the beach between the low tide and hight tide lines is outside of the coastline. The Openstreetmap-carto style was recently changed to handle this.

Re: [Tagging] Where should

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 15/08/19 16:50, Leif Rasmussen wrote: *Was Re: [Tagging] Definition of a Beach* / / / > that then clashes with OSM Coastline, which is taken as the High Tide mark/ I was under the impression that the definition of the coastline was the average between high and low, not the high tide mark,

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread Andy Townsend
On 15/08/2019 17:04, Peter Elderson wrote: Not talking about simple unsorted, but made unsortable. Enter a roundabout of pedestrian area into a route, extend a road, shift another - and you can'sort it. any more. I'm talking daily experience here. Presumably you're talking about some

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
I tried about a month ago, and found the improvements not very helpful, sorting by shifting one way at a time for instance. I could not see how I could check a long route for routing problems (duplicates, areas/roundabouts, gaps, loose ends) and correct it to be one single ordered strand for use

Re: [Tagging] How to distinguish public and private offices?

2019-08-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Aug 2019, 14:36 by andrew.harv...@gmail.com: > > > On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 07:32, Mateusz Konieczny <> matkoni...@tutanota.com > > > wrote: > >> Unfortunately many office=* tags represent something that is accessible - >> for example >> office=insurance is

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes)

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
Op do 15 aug. 2019 om 17:54 schreef Andy Townsend : > > On 15/08/2019 16:18, Peter Elderson wrote: > > Still most problems arise because ID edits damage routes. > > An unsorted route in OSM is not damaged. If your software cannot deal > with unsorted routes then it cannot deal with many routes

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
"It is not possible to analyze all relations in the same way since different relation types have different meanings. The RA tries to build a linked series of ways using some general rules and then creates a rating based on the type of the relation (although not all relation types are supported

Re: [Tagging] Bicycle kitchens, community centres that offer bicycle repairs etc

2019-08-15 Thread Jmapb via Tagging
On 8/15/2019 10:11 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Anyway, just a property like "service:bicycle:repair=yes" and a name would not work, IMHO No indeed, I wouldn't recommend it as a stand-alone feature tag. But as extra tag to a shop or amenity, it think it would help. Also note that for

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Andy Townsend
On 15/08/2019 14:26, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: How about "craft=artist" then? The tag "craft=atelier" was described as for any type of artist: "workshop of a ...professional artist in the fine or decorative arts" "craft=artist" is much better in my view - people are far more likely to know what

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
Still most problems arise because ID edits damage routes. The mappers aren't even aware of the problems, and even if they were, I can't see how they could repair broken and unordered routes of several hundreds up to several thousands of members with ID. I think ID does a fine job, all in all, but

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
I do it a lot. Take it from me and all other route maintainers - You can't maintain long routes with ID. Most of the damage is done by other things then deletion. E.g. shifting a way, connecting ways, extending a way, shortening a way, closing a way, cutting a way. Vr gr Peter Elderson Op do

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 16:57, Peter Elderson wrote: > I do it a lot. Take it from me and all other route maintainers - You can't > maintain long routes with ID. > Have you done it recently? I tried maintaining a route with iD a year or two ago and realized it messed up the ordering. So I

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 17:26, Peter Elderson wrote: > I tried about a month ago, and found the improvements not very helpful, > sorting by shifting one way at a time for instance. > Yeah, that sucks if you have a group of ways to shift. jOSM wins there. I could not see how I could check a

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Yuri Astrakhan
I agree with Christoph -- every tag used in OSM data must be documented -- otherwise it has near-zero value.. Actually negative value because it confuses people -- some might want to delete it, but they don't know if it is useful, so they just leave it there almost indefinitely. In an ideal world

[Tagging] Route sorting (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes)

2019-08-15 Thread Andy Townsend
On 15/08/2019 16:18, Peter Elderson wrote: Still most problems arise because ID edits damage routes. An unsorted route in OSM is not damaged.  If your software cannot deal with unsorted routes then it cannot deal with many routes currently in OSM. Please don't try and propagate the madness

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 18:25, Andy Townsend wrote: > > I've just tried it on a bus route containing a roundabout locally and it > coped OK. I’m usually splitting roundabouts to contain only the part that is in the route. We’re splitting all roads for routes (or other

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 16:59, Paul Allen wrote: > > A craft=painter (current meaning) is where paperwork is done and perhaps > where equipment is stored, but it is not where the actual craft of decorating > takes place. a painter is somehow special in this, but not the

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Aug 2019, 15:56 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > >> On 15. Aug 2019, at 13:53, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: >> >> For many popular tags there are abandoned proposals, tags itself are in >> active use. >> > > > „many popular tags“ have been formally proposed, have not been

Re: [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?

2019-08-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Aug 2019, 15:48 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > >> On 15. Aug 2019, at 13:53, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: >> >> What is perfectly fine, as long as proposals were actually abandoned. >> > > > what is your definition of “abandoned” here? E.g. if a page is in draft or >

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 15:38, Kevin Kenny wrote: > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 9:00 AM Andy Townsend wrote: > > > The ways in the main relation should form one continuous sorted > (sortable) route, > > > > No. Don't assume that route ways are sorted in OSM as they usually > aren't. > > In my part

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 16:20, Peter Elderson wrote: > Still most problems arise because ID edits damage routes. > iD used to damage routes in the past. After an update a couple of months ago it seems to now maintain the sorting of routes, even if you insert or delete elements. > The mappers

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal

2019-08-15 Thread Yuri Astrakhan
Agree, but adding a new tag must happen at the same time as adding a description of what it is (and how it differs from the existing one). The current proposal process is too complicated and lengthy, thus often people just forgo it and add tags without documentation. In my opinion, this is worse

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 16:59, Paul Allen wrote: > > Yes, but under the current system (which is probably too deeply embedded to > fix) an office can > be one of two basic types: > > 1) A place for doing paperwork or other administrative tasks. > > 2) A place selling

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 18:06, Andy Townsend wrote: > > "craft=artist" is much better in my view - people are far more likely to know > what it means +1, craft=atelier makes zero sense, apart that it is French/German and not English, it is describing a place (artist’s

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread marc marc
Le 15.08.19 à 19:40, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : > why would you not do it for roundabouts? when we split a building in several parts, we keep one building=* and use several building:part for roundabouts, the tag is the same. for the whole roundabouts and for part of it. So spliting one

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread Volker Schmidt
Sorting is not the same thing as connection checking. RA does not sort anything. It is able to find for *route* relations the minimum number of unconnected pieces that are required to cover the entire route. Sorting can only be defined on some special routes. Routes can be connected in a single

Re: [Tagging] New property Key:walk-in for amenities like clinics, barbers, hair salons that offer walk-in appointments/service?

2019-08-15 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Fri, 16 Aug 2019 at 00:29, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 15. Aug 2019, at 15:54, marc marc wrote: > > > > - keep booking=* for the few booking.com urls that currently exist > > > > IMHO we should not reserve tags named with a common word like „booking“ > for a

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 20:38, Paul Allen wrote: > > Ummm, you seem to contradict yourself there. Painters/decorators work at > their craft > wherever their craft is needed, not in their office/storage space. > Carpenters are the same. rereading myself it seems I haven’t

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 16/08/19 01:01, Peter Elderson wrote: Op do 15 aug. 2019 om 15:00 schreef Andy Townsend >: On 15/08/2019 10:56, Peter Elderson wrote: > ... So the lowest level always contains only ways, the higher level contains only relations. Please don't make

Re: [Tagging] How to distinguish public and private offices?

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 15/08/19 21:50, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 12:44, dcapillae > wrote: I would use "opening_hours=*" [1] or "reservation=*" [2] to indicate if there is a visiting hours or if it is necessary to make an appointment in a private

Re: [Tagging] Bicycle kitchens, community centres that offer bicycle repairs etc

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Aug 2019, at 17:48, Jmapb wrote: > > Also note that for self-service bike repair we have > "amenity=bicycle_repair_station" -- presumably not the best tag for this > community centre bike repair service (it sounds like volunteers do the > repair work, not the user)

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Clifford Snow
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 9:07 AM Andy Townsend wrote: > On 15/08/2019 14:26, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > How about "craft=artist" then? The tag "craft=atelier" was described > > as for any type of artist: "workshop of a ...professional artist in > > the fine or decorative arts" > > "craft=artist"

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-15 Thread Peter Elderson
Software needs a sorted or easily sortable relation. Currently, no software can handle sorting when the routes get broken. Routes with forward and backward roles don’t sort properly either. Routes get broken very easily all the time. Now the combine and sort routine waymarkedtrails uses when

Re: [Tagging] Bicycle kitchens, community centres that offer bicycle repairs etc

2019-08-15 Thread Morten Lange via Tagging
Yup,  In fact there are no less than three of them in Oslo and one in Reykjavik (that I know of).The preferred solution for those is I think to map two separate nodes, one for the café and the other for the bicycle (repair) shop. Or better a POI inside a way/house. The last option is what was

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 16/08/19 07:25, marc marc wrote: Le 15.08.19 à 19:40, Martin Koppenhoefer a écrit : why would you not do it for roundabouts? when we split a building in several parts, we keep one building=* and use several building:part for roundabouts, the tag is the same. for the whole roundabouts and

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 16. Aug 2019, at 00:20, Peter Elderson wrote: > > Not seldom I have to check and repair 10-15 route relations after one edit > (most often a split of a way to allow a route to attach there) on the map. which editing software do you use? Cheers Martin

Re: [Tagging] Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, route=hiking, route=foot and Walking routes

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 15/08/19 22:58, Andy Townsend wrote: On 15/08/2019 10:56, Peter Elderson wrote: ... So the lowest level always contains only ways, the higher level contains only relations. Please don't make things more complicated than they need to be. Most hiking routes are just a single relation and

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone On 15. Aug 2019, at 20:38, Paul Allen wrote: >> will have much more extensive storage requirements than painters do (e.g. >> scaffolding or concrete workers/formwork). > > A dedicated storage area is not a shop, or an office, or a workshop. true, but the typical

Re: [Tagging] How to distinguish public and private offices?

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 16/08/19 04:08, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 15 Aug 2019, 14:36 by andrew.harv...@gmail.com: On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 07:32, Mateusz Konieczny mailto:matkoni...@tutanota.com>> wrote: Unfortunately many office=* tags represent something that is accessible - for example

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone On 15. Aug 2019, at 23:25, marc marc wrote: >> why would you not do it for roundabouts? > > when we split a building in several parts, we keep one building=* > and use several building:part > > for roundabouts, the tag is the same. for the whole roundabouts and for > part

Re: [Tagging] insurance:health, staff_count:nurses, staff_count:doctors tags documented as a bad idea

2019-08-15 Thread Warin
On 15/08/19 21:39, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:staff_count:doctors#Voting https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:staff_count:nurses#Voting https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Tag:insurance:health#Voting

Re: [Tagging] reservation<>booking (was: New property Key:walk-in for amenities like clinics, barbers, hair salons that offer walk-in appointments/service?)

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone On 15. Aug 2019, at 17:03, marc marc wrote: >> service. Their key could be “booking.com” > > so somes firms have a too common name and need a key with a tld > and somes no ? no, it is not about a common _name_ , the problem is that the name is an existing generic word,

Re: [Tagging] Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 19:02, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > On 15. Aug 2019, at 16:59, Paul Allen wrote: > > > > A craft=painter (current meaning) is where paperwork is done and perhaps > > where equipment is stored, but it is not where the actual craft of > decorating takes place. > > a

Re: [Tagging] Route sorting

2019-08-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 15 Aug 2019 at 18:41, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > I’m usually splitting roundabouts to contain only the part that is in the > route. We’re splitting all roads for routes (or other properties or > relations, e.g. turn restrictions), why would you not do it for roundabouts? > I

Re: [Tagging] Roles of route members (was: Merging tagging scheme on wiki pages of Hiking, ...)

2019-08-15 Thread Sarah Hoffmann
On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 04:50:26PM +0200, Peter Elderson wrote: > Sarah: > > There is relatively few software that can handle hierarchic relations. > One could argue that putting alternatives in separate relations makes it > actually harder to access those. > > I think it's fair to say there is

[Tagging] Artists studios, WAS Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 16. Aug 2019, at 02:27, Clifford Snow wrote: > > I would suggest we move artist from the craft discussion on to its own thread. agreed. Artists merit their own key, putting them under craft doesn’t seem like a good choice. Cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] Artists studios, WAS Re: Keys to which new values can be added without a proposal: craft=, shop=, building=, office=, sport=?

2019-08-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
What is the objective difference between the workshop of a sculptor who makes many copies of ancient or tradition sculptures out of stone by hand, versus the workshop of a “fine art” sculpture who sells expensive “original”’works? There are many traditional sculptors in Indonesia who make stone

  1   2   >