Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging
15 Jan 2020, 05:15 by 61sundow...@gmail.com: > If you tag 'disused=yes' ... how is that rendered? > It depends on what author of map style wanted. For example it is unlikely to be supported in OSM Carto, as this style is already rendering many different things and distinctions. > And that

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mi., 15. Jan. 2020 um 07:20 Uhr schrieb Joseph Eisenberg < joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>: > Since drinking fountains are man-made rather than natural features, > they usually have a date when they are turned on or off. > > This can be specified with the key "opening_hours=*" - this is the >

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Mi., 15. Jan. 2020 um 08:03 Uhr schrieb Marc Gemis : > On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 5:16 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > And that raises another point, how would you render disused physical > objects??? > > I would say that depends on the purpose of the map. A map that wants > to show

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread marc marc
Le 15.01.20 à 05:15, Warin a écrit : > On 15/1/20 6:32 am, marc marc wrote: >> Le 14.01.20 à 19:34, Markus a écrit : >>> If i understand it correctly, building=* values describe how the >>> building looks, not how it is used. For example, a church that is now >>> used as a pub still remains a

Re: [Tagging] How to revive a tag proposal?

2020-01-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone >> On 14. Jan 2020, at 19:50, António Madeira wrote: > Sorry, I didn't get your point, Andy. > The tag was used 32 times, that doesn't seem a "relatively popular" use > of the tag. if there aren’t proper alternatives I agree it is relatively popular. > Someone using iD

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
14 Jan 2020, 20:02 by selfishseaho...@gmail.com: > On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 19:44, Kevin Kenny <> kevin.b.ke...@gmail.com> > wrote: > Actually, i never use disused: on businesses because it feels wrong; > It is OK for shops that are closed, but where their signage still remains. > either i remove

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
According to the wiki page for "service_times": "The key service_times=* is generally used for the times of service of a given feature, if this is different from the opening hours or if a special service (like in the case of churches) is offered in this time. Otherwise please use

Re: [Tagging] How to tag oneway restriction applying to pedestrians?

2020-01-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
Am Di., 14. Jan. 2020 um 15:55 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen : > On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 14:35, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > > Mine goes like this: leading the list is the completely meaningless (and I >> guess most will agree with this judgement) oneway:foot=no >> > > It's not meaningless at all. It

Re: [Tagging] distance_from_road tag

2020-01-15 Thread Colin Smale
On 2020-01-15 13:52, Lionel Giard wrote: > Yes this is something you can do with any distance algorithm in available in > any GIS tool. That's not something that i would ever map as it would vary > with any geometry change of the ways between the road the point you measure, > added to the fact

Re: [Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
I just realized that if you try to edit a wiki data item, it records a change every time you edit a single line. So if you delete 3 "combinations", you make 3 new edits in the history. I didn't see an option to add a comment about my edits, but perhaps I missed it. This makes it nearly impossible

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread marc marc
Le 15.01.20 à 06:55, European Water Project a écrit : > Would it be appropriate to use the tag "seasonal" for a water fountain yes I think so. I'm going to check/survey the nearby fountains: some are closed in winter but don't have a precise opening/closing date.

[Tagging] distance_from_road tag

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
I propose describing distance_from_road tag, defined as "distance in meters from nearest road" as a misguided idea that should not be used. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:distance_from_road was recently created by PangoSE and claims "Useful for indicating the distance to nearest road

Re: [Tagging] distance_from_road tag

2020-01-15 Thread Philip Barnes
On Wednesday, 15 January 2020, Colin Smale wrote: > On 2020-01-15 13:52, Lionel Giard wrote: > > > Yes this is something you can do with any distance algorithm in available > > in any GIS tool. That's not something that i would ever map as it would > > vary with any geometry change of the

Re: [Tagging] distance_from_road tag

2020-01-15 Thread Colin Smale
On 2020-01-15 14:05, Philip Barnes wrote: > On Wednesday, 15 January 2020, Colin Smale wrote: On 2020-01-15 13:52, Lionel > Giard wrote: > > Yes this is something you can do with any distance algorithm in available in > any GIS tool. That's not something that i would ever map as it would vary

Re: [Tagging] distance_from_road tag

2020-01-15 Thread marc marc
Of course this tag is a bad idea, which duplicates existing information in osm and is therefore a source of conflict when one of the 2 data is capitalized and not the other one. if not, what next ? distance_from_bus_stop ? distance_from_tram_stop train station pub supermarket postoffice town

[Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
PangoSE started "Transition to use data items when this can be done without loosing information" discussion at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Wiki#Transition_to_use_data_items_when_this_can_be_done_without_loosing_information

Re: [Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Jan 2020, 14:10 by ajt1...@gmail.com: > On 15/01/2020 12:03, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > >> >> 15 Jan 2020, 12:57 by >> marc_marc_...@hotmail.com>> : >> >>> I'm very unhappywith that. >>> >>> >> Please, please comment on the OSM Wiki if you want tocomment. >> >> > >

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Jmapb via Tagging
On 1/15/2020 12:55 AM, European Water Project wrote: Would it be appropriate to use the tag "seasonal" for a water fountain (whether tagged as "amenity=drinking_water" or "amenity = fountain and drinking_water = yes" )? Don't forget about man_made=drinking_fountain! J

Re: [Tagging] How to tag oneway restriction applying to pedestrians?

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Jan 2020, 09:51 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > Like in "they may not legally walk in the oneway direction"? Which > jurisdiction is this? > In the jurisdictions I am aware of, in absence of a pavement you have to walk > on the road / carriageway. You may not do so only if there are signs that

Re: [Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread marc marc
Le 15.01.20 à 12:49, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit : > Anyone with opinion on that topic is welcomed to comment in this > discussion on the OSM Wiki. I'm very unhappy with that. some tools use wiki and not data items (for ex taginfo) doing that destroy usefull information. in fact I'm unhappy with

Re: [Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Jan 2020, 12:57 by marc_marc_...@hotmail.com: > Le 15.01.20 à 12:49, Mateusz Konieczny a écrit : > >> Anyone with opinion on that topic is welcomed to comment in this >> discussion on the OSM Wiki. >> > > I'm very unhappy with that. > some tools use wiki and not data items (for ex taginfo)

Re: [Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread Simon Poole
Yes I was just going to point out that https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/taginfo/apidoc#api_4_key_wiki_pages wouldn't return the combination info if removed from the page. That doesn't mean that we can't change the wiki, but it needs to be a coordinated effort that includes adapting the most

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
14 Jan 2020, 18:59 by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: > JOSM warns me that "building=disuse" is deprecated, but doesn't tell > me what to use instead. > > On the wiki, nether [[Key:building=disused]] nor > [[Tag:building=disused]] exist > It exists now. > and [[Key:building]] says nothing aout > how

Re: [Tagging] distance_from_road tag

2020-01-15 Thread Lionel Giard
Yes this is something you can do with any distance algorithm in available in any GIS tool. That's not something that i would ever map as it would vary with any geometry change of the ways between the road the point you measure, added to the fact that it add nothing to explicitly map it (in my

Re: [Tagging] Deleting template parameters copied to data items

2020-01-15 Thread Andy Townsend
On 15/01/2020 12:03, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 15 Jan 2020, 12:57 by marc_marc_...@hotmail.com: I'm very unhappy with that. Please, please comment on the OSM Wiki if you want to comment. What would be useful is a separate discussion about what wiki "data items" are and why there are a

Re: [Tagging] How to revive a tag proposal?

2020-01-15 Thread António Madeira
Às 06:29 de 15/01/2020, Martin Koppenhoefer escreveu: I would like to make a proper wiki and add that feature to iD these are 2 completely unrelated actions, for inclusion in iD you do not need a wiki entry nor does it influence the decision to add it or not (according to one of the

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread marc marc
Le 15.01.20 à 16:15, Jmapb via Tagging a écrit : > On 1/15/2020 12:55 AM, European Water Project wrote: >> Would it be appropriate to use the tag "seasonal" for a water fountain >> (whether tagged as "amenity=drinking_water" or "amenity = fountain and >> drinking_water = yes" )? > > Don't forget

Re: [Tagging] recreational vs functional routes

2020-01-15 Thread Florimond Berthoux
Beside my proposal for bicycle subtype route, I read again the tourism wiki page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tourism « Places and things of specific interest to tourists including places to see, places to stay, things and places providing information and support to tourists. » and «

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Philip Barnes
On Wednesday, 15 January 2020, marc marc wrote: > Le 15.01.20 à 16:15, Jmapb via Tagging a écrit : > > On 1/15/2020 12:55 AM, European Water Project wrote: > >> Would it be appropriate to use the tag "seasonal" for a water fountain > >> (whether tagged as "amenity=drinking_water" or "amenity =

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Jmapb
On 1/15/2020 10:26 AM, marc marc wrote: Le 15.01.20 à 16:15, Jmapb via Tagging a écrit : Don't forget about man_made=drinking_fountain! omg, what's the diff with amenity=drinking_water ? the direction of water flow upwards? 348 out of 371 objects also have an amenity tag, which shows the

Re: [Tagging] How to tag oneway restriction applying to pedestrians?

2020-01-15 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
sent from a phone > On 15. Jan 2020, at 12:05, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Pedestrian walking on the carriageway or shoulder is obligated to walk on the > left side of the road. right. Now show me a oneway street that hasn’t a left side ;-) Cheers Martin

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
15 Jan 2020, 21:58 by pla16...@gmail.com: > Currently, the best you can do is use the deprecated disused=yes for physical > objects to get the desired behaviour with standard carto.  There is no > guarantee > that other renderers will honour that.  There is no guarantee that standard > carto >

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, restaurant

2020-01-15 Thread Florimond Berthoux
Hi, I go quickly through the email thread and didn't saw the simple solution: use drinking_water https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:drinking_water «drinking_water=* indicates whether a feature provides drinking water, specifically whether water is drinkable for humans. » So if a cafe provide

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Warin
On 15/1/20 7:27 pm, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Am Mi., 15. Jan. 2020 um 08:03 Uhr schrieb Marc Gemis mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>>: On Wed, Jan 15, 2020 at 5:16 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > wrote: > And that raises another point, how would you

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 20:39, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > If the thing is still physically present then it is still of use from a > navigation point of view. > +1 > From an ease of rendering it would be useful to have a way of rendering > any disused:* object. > For physical objects,

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, restaurant

2020-01-15 Thread European Water Project
> > 5. Re: Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, restaurant > (Florimond Berthoux) > Hello Florimond, While I don't necessarily feel the solution you > propose is preferable, I do share your love of KISS though. > I have tried to fairly incorporate the main feedback from the tagging

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 21:17, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: I would not consider disused=yes to be > deprecated for physical objects like > building, adits, quarries etc. > The wiki for the disused prefix has been amended since the last time this came up, and a long way down the page, after several

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, restaurant

2020-01-15 Thread Florimond Berthoux
Because https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Any_tags_you_like Tags are already defined and used. free_water would be in conflict with tags fee and drinking_water. free_water is two words with two concepts (price and service) drinking_water:fee use the usual main:sub_propertie tagging pattern I

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Peter Elderson
TING Best, -- Peter Elderson Op wo 15 jan. 2020 om 22:54 schreef Paul Allen : > On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 21:17, Mateusz Konieczny > wrote: > > I would not consider disused=yes to be >> deprecated for physical objects like >> building, adits, quarries etc. >> > > The wiki for the disused prefix

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
14 Jan 2020, 19:42 by kevin.b.ke...@gmail.com: > On Tue, Jan 14, 2020 at 1:22 PM Paul Allen wrote: > >> Yes, I'm aware there are other cartos that may handle things differently. >> But the >> standard carto is the one we use to check what we've done. >> > > Whenever I raise a point like

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Mateusz Konieczny
14 Jan 2020, 18:59 by a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk: > no easily-found documntation for this common use case? > BTW, thanks for reporting the issue. I was unaware that wiki pages for this specific values would be useful. I also created family of pages for

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Jarek Piórkowski
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 01:19, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > On 1/15/20, European Water Project wrote: > > Would it be appropriate to use the tag "seasonal" for a water fountain > > (whether tagged as "amenity=drinking_water" or "amenity = fountain and > > drinking_water = yes" )? > > Since drinking

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Jarek Piórkowski
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 at 20:52, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > seasonal=summer > > Well, this is the problem with the tag "seasonal" - it's not 100% > clear if "seasonal=summer" means "this feature is only available in > the summer" or "this feature is NOT available in the summer". Ah, good point! So

Re: [Tagging] Cooker or Stove in the kitchen?

2020-01-15 Thread Graeme Fitzpatrick
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 10:26, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > British English speakers: > I hope Australian English counts? :-) > If you are mapping a device which burns fuel or uses electricity to > cook food in a pot or pan, is this a "cooker" or a "stove" or > something else? > They're stoves

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread European Water Project
> >3. Re: Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water > fountains. (Joseph Eisenberg) > Joseph, of all the suggestions I have seen. Open hours seems the > cleanest and least ambiguous >5. Re: Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water >

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
I'm one of the maintainers of the Openstreetmap-carto style, but I think the community should make tagging decisions based on what works best for mappers and what makes logical sense, without worrying what a particular renderer will do. In this case I believe the decision to "deprecate" the tag

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 00:49, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > I'm one of the maintainers of the Openstreetmap-carto style, but I > think the community should make tagging decisions based on what works > best for mappers and what makes logical sense, without worrying what a > particular renderer will

Re: [Tagging] How to tag Landscaping tarpaper / weedblocking paper

2020-01-15 Thread Warin
On 16/1/20 11:59 am, John Willis via Tagging wrote: here in Japan and other places where unwanted vegetation grows very quickly and/or has heavy rain, heavy tar paper / plastic or metal mesh / or plastic “weedblocking” sheeting is commonly used on embankments, traffic islands, and other

Re: [Tagging] Query regarding seasonal tag combined for outdoor water fountains.

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
> seasonal=summer Well, this is the problem with the tag "seasonal" - it's not 100% clear if "seasonal=summer" means "this feature is only available in the summer" or "this feature is NOT available in the summer". As mentioned on the wiki page "Note these values can be ambiguous for features

[Tagging] Cooker or Stove in the kitchen?

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
British English speakers: If you are mapping a device which burns fuel or uses electricity to cook food in a pot or pan, is this a "cooker" or a "stove" or something else? What if it has an oven included, or doesn't? - Joseph Eisenberg ___ Tagging

Re: [Tagging] Cooker or Stove in the kitchen?

2020-01-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 00:26, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > British English speakers: > > If you are mapping a device which burns fuel or uses electricity to > cook food in a pot or pan, is this a "cooker" or a "stove" or > something else? > > What if it has an oven included, or doesn't? > With

[Tagging] How to tag Landscaping tarpaper / weedblocking paper

2020-01-15 Thread John Willis via Tagging
here in Japan and other places where unwanted vegetation grows very quickly and/or has heavy rain, heavy tar paper / plastic or metal mesh / or plastic “weedblocking” sheeting is commonly used on embankments, traffic islands, and other places where people want to stop weeds from growing and to

Re: [Tagging] How to tag Landscaping tarpaper / weedblocking paper

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
This sound like a surface=* feature, since it isn't a landuse or natural vegetation type. Plastic sheeting is also used on some types of farmland, for example strawberry fields, for weed prevention. So map the area's function with landuse=railway/industrial/farmland or natural=scree/sand/etc. or

Re: [Tagging] Cooker or Stove in the kitchen?

2020-01-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 01:49, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > Ok, so a propane or butane "camping stove" is a "hob", not a "cooker", > since it lacks an oven? > Didn't think about those. Probably a camping stove, even in British English. There's a lot of cross-cultural contamination. :) Cooker

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, restaurant

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
Thank you for pointing out the tag "drinking_water=yes/no" Looking at the wiki page for this tag and for the related tag amenity=drinking_water, it is strongly implied that this is for a drinking water supply which is self-service. Examples include water taps, drinking fountains, wells, and

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Warin
On 16/1/20 12:08 pm, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 00:49, Joseph Eisenberg mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote: I'm one of the maintainers of the Openstreetmap-carto style, but I think the community should make tagging decisions based on what works best for mappers

Re: [Tagging] building=disused

2020-01-15 Thread Paul Allen
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 01:24, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: My thinking is that both 'disused=yes' and 'disused:*=* tag the same > condition. As such they should be treated equally by renders. > And my thinking is that there is a difference between a disused building (it's still a

Re: [Tagging] Cooker or Stove in the kitchen?

2020-01-15 Thread Joseph Eisenberg
Ok, so a propane or butane "camping stove" is a "hob", not a "cooker", since it lacks an oven? I suppose "stove" is used for wood and coal-fueled heating devices too? -Joseph On 1/16/20, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 at 00:26, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > >> British English speakers: