Re: [Tagging] shop=boutique WAS Re: Tagging Digest, Vol 96, Issue 3

2017-09-04 Thread Thilo Haug
Hi all,

I think in such a case it would be seen as several shops
(like shops within a mall).
It's not totally unlikely that the same proprietor does something like this,
but I think it would be seldom enough
to accept there would need to be several points (shops)
within one building in this exception.

Cheers,
Thilo


Am 04.09.2017 um 05:42 schrieb Marc Gemis:
>> In the clothes example, we could certainly split the characteristics up in
>>
>> clothes:for=men/women/children
>> clothes:material=fur/leather/fabric/denim
>> clothes:type=fashion/sports/work/wedding
> there is a problem if you want to indicate that it only sells denims
> for men, sports clothes for children and fashion for women. I know
> this is a hypothetical example, but the proposal cannot express a link
> between material, type and target audience (for). And perhaps it is
> needed.
>
> m.
>
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Re: [Tagging] shop=boutique WAS Re: Tagging Digest, Vol 96, Issue 3

2017-09-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 4. Sep 2017, at 05:42, Marc Gemis  wrote:
> 
> there is a problem if you want to indicate that it only sells denims
> for men, sports clothes for children and fashion for women. I know
> this is a hypothetical example, but the proposal cannot express a link
> between material, type and target audience (for). And perhaps it is
> needed


one could split the shop in this case and use the detailed tags to map distinct 
departments (shop parts), which could be linked/combined by a (more generic) 
shop object.

cheers,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] shop=boutique WAS Re: Tagging Digest, Vol 96, Issue 3

2017-09-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 3. Sep 2017, at 19:01, Thilo Haug  wrote:
> 
> How would you then avoid "multivalues" ?
> 
> For example for brand=*
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand
> 
> If a shop sells several brands (Honda;Yamaha;Suzuki;BMW;KTM),
> how would you tag this ?


Yes, you can't avoid multiple values here, but it's not a big problem here 
either, because it's clear it's a list of brands.

It's different when you tag 
clothes=women;workwear (how it's currently done) because you don't know if that 
means workwear for women or workwear (for all genders) and clothes for women.



> 
> In the clothes example, we could certainly split the characteristics up in
> 
> clothes:for=men/women/children
> clothes:material=fur/leather/fabric/denim
> clothes:type=fashion/sports/work/wedding


yes, something like this is much better than a simple "clothes" key where it 
remains unclear what kind of property should go there.


Cheers ,
Martin 
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Re: [Tagging] shop=boutique WAS Re: Tagging Digest, Vol 96, Issue 3

2017-09-04 Thread Marc Gemis
On Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Thilo Haug  wrote:
> How would you then avoid "multivalues" ?
>
> For example for brand=*
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand
>
> If a shop sells several brands (Honda;Yamaha;Suzuki;BMW;KTM),
> how would you tag this ?
>

brand=Honda;Yamaha;Suzuki;BMW;KTM

> In the clothes example, we could certainly split the characteristics up in
>
> clothes:for=men/women/children
> clothes:material=fur/leather/fabric/denim
> clothes:type=fashion/sports/work/wedding

there is a problem if you want to indicate that it only sells denims
for men, sports clothes for children and fashion for women. I know
this is a hypothetical example, but the proposal cannot express a link
between material, type and target audience (for). And perhaps it is
needed.

m.

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Re: [Tagging] shop=boutique WAS Re: Tagging Digest, Vol 96, Issue 3

2017-09-03 Thread Thilo Haug
How would you then avoid "multivalues" ?

For example for brand=*
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand

If a shop sells several brands (Honda;Yamaha;Suzuki;BMW;KTM),
how would you tag this ?

In the clothes example, we could certainly split the characteristics up in

clothes:for=men/women/children
clothes:material=fur/leather/fabric/denim
clothes:type=fashion/sports/work/wedding

But there might still be multiple values for each,
which clearly mean a listing to me if separated by semicolon.


Am 03.09.2017 um 14:32 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
>
> sent from a phone
>
>> On 2. Sep 2017, at 10:58, Rafael Avila Coya  wrote:
>>
>> So if you have a shop that is "fashion" and women only, you could tag it as
>>
>> shop=clothes
>> clothes=women;fashion
>
> this isn't semantically clear, it could just as well mean clothes for women 
> and fashion. What about clothes=bridal;fur, does this mean bridal clothes in 
> fur? ;-)
> There are many different kinds of things and properties in the clothes tag, 
> which would require multivalues and lead to ambiguities if we'd continue this 
> "system", because you don't know if it's "AND" or "OR".
>  it's unclear what property "clothes" is describing, e.g. "women", "men", 
> "babies", "kids" are orthogonal to "fur", "leather", "denim", are orthogonal 
> to "underwear", "hats" are orthogonal to "sports", "wedding", "workwear", are 
> orthogonal to "traditional", "fashion" - while others are a mix ("bridal" or 
> "lingerie" imply women and exclude men, kids, babies).
>
> It's also inconsistent to map shoe shops with their own top level tag, but 
> hats shops or wedding shops not. I surely wouldn't lump specialized shops 
> like a bridal shop together with generic clothing shops and distinguish them 
> only in a subtag, that's absurd, because nobody will want to find the bridal 
> shop in his search results when s/he wants to buy clothes - unless it's for 
> your own wedding, which typically is very infrequently, and for which you'd 
> likely will search specifically.
>
>
> cheers,
> Martin 
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-- 

Thilo Haug
Bismarckstr.37
72764 Reutlingen

Mobil: +49 177 3185856
Festnetz : +49 7121 3826414



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[Tagging] shop=boutique WAS Re: Tagging Digest, Vol 96, Issue 3

2017-09-03 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer


sent from a phone

> On 2. Sep 2017, at 10:58, Rafael Avila Coya  wrote:
> 
> So if you have a shop that is "fashion" and women only, you could tag it as
> 
> shop=clothes
> clothes=women;fashion


this isn't semantically clear, it could just as well mean clothes for women and 
fashion. What about clothes=bridal;fur, does this mean bridal clothes in fur? 
;-)
There are many different kinds of things and properties in the clothes tag, 
which would require multivalues and lead to ambiguities if we'd continue this 
"system", because you don't know if it's "AND" or "OR".
 it's unclear what property "clothes" is describing, e.g. "women", "men", 
"babies", "kids" are orthogonal to "fur", "leather", "denim", are orthogonal to 
"underwear", "hats" are orthogonal to "sports", "wedding", "workwear", are 
orthogonal to "traditional", "fashion" - while others are a mix ("bridal" or 
"lingerie" imply women and exclude men, kids, babies).

It's also inconsistent to map shoe shops with their own top level tag, but hats 
shops or wedding shops not. I surely wouldn't lump specialized shops like a 
bridal shop together with generic clothing shops and distinguish them only in a 
subtag, that's absurd, because nobody will want to find the bridal shop in his 
search results when s/he wants to buy clothes - unless it's for your own 
wedding, which typically is very infrequently, and for which you'd likely will 
search specifically.


cheers,
Martin 
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