Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk-be] how to map a fr:talus?

[André Pirard]

On 2017-11-24 10:55, ralph.ayt...@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> I have had a look on the Wallonia website. If you zoom out you will
> see that this feature runs exactly parallel to the road to the south
> of it. It is man made. It would have been created at the same time as
> the road. It was done to raise the road to a higher level as a flood
> defence against the river to the north. I do not know but it may be
> that there is a retaining structure of stone or concrete to strengthen
> it but is covered with soil and grass.
>
>  
>
> The tag for this could be /man_made=dyke/ with /material=soil/.
>
>  
>
> You will see that the farmland to the south of the road has something
> similar. This is not flood defence, it is terraced farming to stop the
> run off of water on sloping farmland.
>
>  
>
> The tag for this could be /barrier=retaining_wall/ with
> /material=stone/soil/ (or whatever material is used)
>
> Hope this has been helpful.
>
>  
>
> Ralph
>
Thank you, Ralph.
If you look down below (as people started to write bottom up in the XXth
century) you will see that I found Projet de canal Meuse et Moselle

(Genglish
),
seeming to confirm what I wrote: that talus is the remnants of that old
canal, commonly called "canal de l'Ourthe", washed away by the frequent
flooding of the Ourthe and of various fate along its course.
So, what I should normally do is map a canal.
But as nobody ever saw a canal with a single bank looking like a talus,
that would get me in troubles.  Not counting that the rendering, even if
we cannot tag "for" it, would try to fill it with water and cause even
more flooding ;-)

So, good-bye canal, what it has now become is a crumbled bank, a
crumbled wall I suppose..

That is just as queer, so, unless you change your mind, I'll tag it man
made=embankment
,
according to your repeated consent, but only as a single way at the top
of the slope I suppose.
But I'll name it an old canal's bank.

Thanks to all,
Cheers,

André.


> Sent from Mail  for
> Windows 10
>
>  
>
> *From: *André Pirard 
> *Sent: *Thursday, November 23, 2017 10:29 PM
> *To: *OpenStreetMap Belgium 
> *Cc: *Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
> 
> *Subject: *Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk-be] how to map a fr:talus?
>
>  
>
> On 2017-11-23 17:26, joost schouppe wrote:
>
> 2017-11-23 16:48 GMT+01:00 André Pirard  >:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for how to map what is called in French a talus
>  (Google's translation).
> I would call this a 1.8m simple step running for some reason
> for several 100s meters across meadows.
> Steep slope. There are "top of slope" and "bottom of slope"
> lines. Rest is perfectly flat either side.
> It might be the remnants of a old canal's bank whose other
> side would have been eroded by the often overflowing nearby river.
> A "talus" made of plain ground is often frequent at one side
> of a path or track.
> According to the wiki, it's not a "scree" nor a "shingle".
> It's much less matter specific.
> So what?
> I'll use "scree" unless/until I hear of better for a French talus.
>
> Cheers
>
> André.
>
> I'm not entirely sure this is what you have in mind, but in the
> cases where it is associated with roads, I've seen
> historic=hollow_way (when the slope is caused by the fact that
> there's an old road), and "embankment" or "cutting" when the slope
> is deliberatly constructed. In other cases, I've seen what I think
> you describe mapped as natural=cliff, which is obviously wrong,
> but does get the message accross. For example where sand or rock
> was quarried this is common to see on the map. I'm hoping someone
> has seen better ideas.
>
> Thanks for all your fast answers from which I had to choose the first
> one to reply to.
> A photo was asked. I might go back there to make one, but you wouldn't
> see more that the surface of a meadow looking like this on a long
> distance, at varying steepness and width.
>_
>   /
>  /
> /
>
> It can be seen on this map share
> ,
> pan it to the left and right.
> The two striped, faint lines are the upper and lower edges (rims,
> levels) from the BE SPW(allonie) PICC numerical imagery
> 

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk-be] how to map a fr:talus?

[ralph.aytoun]

I have had a look on the Wallonia website. If you zoom out you will see that 
this feature runs exactly parallel to the road to the south of it. It is man 
made. It would have been created at the same time as the road. It was done to 
raise the road to a higher level as a flood defence against the river to the 
north. I do not know but it may be that there is a retaining structure of stone 
or concrete to strengthen it but is covered with soil and grass.

The tag for this could be man_made=dyke with material=soil.

You will see that the farmland to the south of the road has something similar. 
This is not flood defence, it is terraced farming to stop the run off of water 
on sloping farmland.

The tag for this could be barrier=retaining_wall with material=stone/soil (or 
whatever material is used)
Hope this has been helpful.

Ralph


Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: André Pirard
Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2017 10:29 PM
To: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Cc: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools
Subject: Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk-be] how to map a fr:talus?

On 2017-11-23 17:26, joost schouppe wrote:
2017-11-23 16:48 GMT+01:00 André Pirard :
Hi,

I'm looking for how to map what is called in French a talus (Google's 
translation).
I would call this a 1.8m simple step running for some reason for several 100s 
meters across meadows.
Steep slope. There are "top of slope" and "bottom of slope" lines. Rest is 
perfectly flat either side.
It might be the remnants of a old canal's bank whose other side would have been 
eroded by the often overflowing nearby river.
A "talus" made of plain ground is often frequent at one side of a path or track.
According to the wiki, it's not a "scree" nor a "shingle". It's much less 
matter specific.
So what?
I'll use "scree" unless/until I hear of better for a French talus.

Cheers 
André.
I'm not entirely sure this is what you have in mind, but in the cases where it 
is associated with roads, I've seen historic=hollow_way (when the slope is 
caused by the fact that there's an old road), and "embankment" or "cutting" 
when the slope is deliberatly constructed. In other cases, I've seen what I 
think you describe mapped as natural=cliff, which is obviously wrong, but does 
get the message accross. For example where sand or rock was quarried this is 
common to see on the map. I'm hoping someone has seen better ideas.
Thanks for all your fast answers from which I had to choose the first one to 
reply to.
A photo was asked. I might go back there to make one, but you wouldn't see more 
that the surface of a meadow looking like this on a long distance, at varying 
steepness and width.
   _
  /
 /
/

It can be seen on this map share, pan it to the left and right.
The two striped, faint lines are the upper and lower edges (rims, levels) from 
the BE SPW(allonie) PICC numerical imagery (JOSM) overlay allowing me to map 
it. As you zoom out, you will see that the aerial photo is darker along that 
line.
The Cartoweb background (Fond de Plan) draws it as the typical "behind which to 
hide" line of old military maps.
Well, in OSM parlance, it's not a cree because there is no cliff (1), not a 
shingle because there is no sea and not an embankment because there is no road 
to be an attribute of.
Well, as I said it, what I'm facing seems to be, as I found more specifically, 
the remnants of this old canal @ N°12. The river often overflows as high as 
above the road. When the water goes back, it washes the left bank of the canal 
towards the river but the right bank is mostly just overflown.

So, there's nothing in OSM for that precisely.
Would man_made=dyke be the most resembling and acceptable with an explanation 
note?

Thanks and TIA,
Cheers 
André.
(1) there's a very beautiful one, but at the other side of the river, called 
"La Roche aux Faucons" (Falcons' Cliff).

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk-be] how to map a fr:talus?

[Yves]

Hmm, as a French, I surely know what a talus is. 
However, I don't think the man_made key would fit all of them. While surveying, 
are to say if they are natural or man made. 
To my knowledge, a 'talus' can also have 2 sides, like a small but elongated 
hill. 
Yves 

Le 23 novembre 2017 20:30:46 GMT+01:00, "André Pirard" 
 a écrit :
>On 2017-11-23 17:26, joost schouppe wrote:
>> 2017-11-23 16:48 GMT+01:00 André Pirard > >:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm looking for how to map what is called in French a talus
>>  (Google's translation).
>> I would call this a 1.8m simple step running for some reason for
>> several 100s meters across meadows.
>> Steep slope. There are "top of slope" and "bottom of slope"
>lines.
>> Rest is perfectly flat either side.
>> It might be the remnants of a old canal's bank whose other side
>> would have been eroded by the often overflowing nearby river.
>> A "talus" made of plain ground is often frequent at one side of a
>> path or track.
>> According to the wiki, it's not a "scree" nor a "shingle". It's
>> much less matter specific.
>> So what?
>> I'll use "scree" unless/until I hear of better for a French
>talus.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> André.
>>
>> I'm not entirely sure this is what you have in mind, but in the cases
>> where it is associated with roads, I've seen historic=hollow_way
>(when
>> the slope is caused by the fact that there's an old road), and
>> "embankment" or "cutting" when the slope is deliberatly constructed.
>> In other cases, I've seen what I think you describe mapped as
>> natural=cliff, which is obviously wrong, but does get the message
>> accross. For example where sand or rock was quarried this is common
>to
>> see on the map. I'm hoping someone has seen better ideas.
>Thanks for all your fast answers from which I had to choose the first
>one to reply to.
>A photo was asked. I might go back there to make one, but you wouldn't
>see more that the surface of a meadow looking like this on a long
>distance, at varying steepness and width.
>   _
>  /
> /
>/
>
>It can be seen on this map share
>,
>pan it to the left and right.
>The two striped, faint lines are the upper and lower edges (rims,
>levels) from the BE SPW(allonie) PICC numerical imagery
>
>(JOSM) overlay allowing me to map it. As you zoom out, you will see
>that
>the aerial photo is darker along that line.
>The Cartoweb background (Fond de Plan) draws it as the typical "behind
>which to hide" line of old military maps.
>Well, in OSM parlance, it's not a cree because there is no cliff (1),
>not a shingle because there is no sea and not an embankment because
>there is no road to be an attribute of.
>Well, as I said it, what I'm facing seems to be, as I found more
>specifically, the remnants of this old canal @ N°12
>.
>The river often overflows as high as above the road. When the water
>goes
>back, it washes the left bank of the canal towards the river but the
>right bank is mostly just overflown.
>
>So, there's nothing in OSM for that precisely.
>Would man_made=dyke be the most resembling and acceptable with an
>explanation note?
>
>Thanks and TIA,
>Cheers
>
>André.
>
>
>(1) there's a very beautiful one, but at the other side of the river,
>called "La Roche aux Faucons" (Falcons' Cliff).
___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk-be] how to map a fr:talus?

[André Pirard]

On 2017-11-23 17:26, joost schouppe wrote:
> 2017-11-23 16:48 GMT+01:00 André Pirard  >:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for how to map what is called in French a talus
>  (Google's translation).
> I would call this a 1.8m simple step running for some reason for
> several 100s meters across meadows.
> Steep slope. There are "top of slope" and "bottom of slope" lines.
> Rest is perfectly flat either side.
> It might be the remnants of a old canal's bank whose other side
> would have been eroded by the often overflowing nearby river.
> A "talus" made of plain ground is often frequent at one side of a
> path or track.
> According to the wiki, it's not a "scree" nor a "shingle". It's
> much less matter specific.
> So what?
> I'll use "scree" unless/until I hear of better for a French talus.
>
> Cheers
>
> André.
>
> I'm not entirely sure this is what you have in mind, but in the cases
> where it is associated with roads, I've seen historic=hollow_way (when
> the slope is caused by the fact that there's an old road), and
> "embankment" or "cutting" when the slope is deliberatly constructed.
> In other cases, I've seen what I think you describe mapped as
> natural=cliff, which is obviously wrong, but does get the message
> accross. For example where sand or rock was quarried this is common to
> see on the map. I'm hoping someone has seen better ideas.
Thanks for all your fast answers from which I had to choose the first
one to reply to.
A photo was asked. I might go back there to make one, but you wouldn't
see more that the surface of a meadow looking like this on a long
distance, at varying steepness and width.
   _
  /
 /
/

It can be seen on this map share
,
pan it to the left and right.
The two striped, faint lines are the upper and lower edges (rims,
levels) from the BE SPW(allonie) PICC numerical imagery

(JOSM) overlay allowing me to map it. As you zoom out, you will see that
the aerial photo is darker along that line.
The Cartoweb background (Fond de Plan) draws it as the typical "behind
which to hide" line of old military maps.
Well, in OSM parlance, it's not a cree because there is no cliff (1),
not a shingle because there is no sea and not an embankment because
there is no road to be an attribute of.
Well, as I said it, what I'm facing seems to be, as I found more
specifically, the remnants of this old canal @ N°12
.
The river often overflows as high as above the road. When the water goes
back, it washes the left bank of the canal towards the river but the
right bank is mostly just overflown.

So, there's nothing in OSM for that precisely.
Would man_made=dyke be the most resembling and acceptable with an
explanation note?

Thanks and TIA,
Cheers

André.


(1) there's a very beautiful one, but at the other side of the river,
called "La Roche aux Faucons" (Falcons' Cliff).

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk-be] how to map a fr:talus?

[joost schouppe]

I'm not entirely sure this is what you have in mind, but in the cases where
it is associated with roads, I've seen historic=hollow_way (when the slope
is caused by the fact that there's an old road), and "embankment" or
"cutting" when the slope is deliberatly constructed. In other cases, I've
seen what I think you describe mapped as natural=cliff, which is obviously
wrong, but does get the message accross. For example where sand or rock was
quarried this is common to see on the map. I'm hoping someone has seen
better ideas.

2017-11-23 16:48 GMT+01:00 André Pirard :

> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for how to map what is called in French a talus
>  (Google's translation).
> I would call this a 1.8m simple step running for some reason for several
> 100s meters across meadows.
> Steep slope. There are "top of slope" and "bottom of slope" lines. Rest is
> perfectly flat either side.
> It might be the remnants of a old canal's bank whose other side would have
> been eroded by the often overflowing nearby river.
> A "talus" made of plain ground is often frequent at one side of a path or
> track.
> According to the wiki, it's not a "scree" nor a "shingle". It's much less
> matter specific.
> So what?
> I'll use "scree" unless/until I hear of better for a French talus.
>
> Cheers
>
> André.
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> talk...@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>


-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

___
Tagging mailing list
Tagging@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging