Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 23 set 2016, alle ore 04:58, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha 
> scritto:
> 
> The OSM tagging problem maybe using the tag 'historic=' for a cenotaph where 
> it may not be regarded as 'historic'? Is this the source of this discussion? 
> All the cenotaphs I know of are 'historic' but I can see that there maybe 
> others that are viewed as not 'historic'. 


using historic as a key would prevent us from tagging monument/memorial as well 
though.

I think we can assume that all cenotaphs are historic, as they refer to dead 
people, i.e. they are implicitly historic (even if erected yesterday)

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Warin]

On 23-Sep-16 07:09 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:

Oops - sent originally from wrong mailbox:

The Titanic musicians' cenotaph in Southhampton is a plaque set in a 
wall, but even it is made to look like a tomb set in the same wall.


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/RMS_Titanic_Musician's_Memorial,_Southampton.jpg 



The Archibald Butt cenotaph in Arlington is an empty grave, rather 
than an empty tomb:


http://www.glts.org/memorials/dc/images/107_0710.jpg 



The Congressional Cemetery in Washington has monuments to 171 members 
of the U.S. Congress who died in office. They're all called 
'cenotaphs' in an abuse of terminology, since somewhere between fifty 
and eighty of them mark actual burial places. (The remainder truly are 
cenotaphs to individuals whose remains are interred elsewhere.) The 
Congressional ones from 1816 to 1876 are built to a standard design by 
Benjamin Latrobe.


https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/national_cemeteries/photos/list_of-sites2/054_Cenotaphs.jpg 

http://www.congressionalcemetery.org/pdf/Walking-Tours/Cenotaphs.pdf 



Generally, I would propose tagging anything as a 'cenotaph' only if it 
was built intending that it should be venerated as a surrogate for the 
final resting place of some person or persons whose remains lie 
elsewhere.


On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> wrote:



2016-09-21 23:57 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
>:

Some resemble a tomb, some don't  some are statues, some
are plaques, some are columns.

Wikipedia has quite a few photos of some ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph


I suppose it depend on what you think a tomb looks like?



yes, I suppose so as well. To me, all of these Cenotaphs that WP
has an image for are looking like tombs. A "plaque" or "statue"
are no cenotaphs, do you have an example for one of these?



Given the variety of things that are tombs .. it is hard to get an 
architecture that is significantly different for a cenotaph. Both are 
for remembrance of the deceased so has similar functions so there form 
is similar too.
The difference is the location of the deceased remains. If co-located 
then it is a tomb/grave. If the locations are different then it is a 
cenotaph.


The OSM tagging problem maybe using the tag 'historic=' for a cenotaph 
where it may not be regarded as 'historic'? Is this the source of this 
discussion?
All the cenotaphs I know of are 'historic' but I can see that there 
maybe others that are viewed as not 'historic'.
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Kevin Kenny]

Oops - sent originally from wrong mailbox:

The Titanic musicians' cenotaph in Southhampton is a plaque set in a wall,
but even it is made to look like a tomb set in the same wall.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/RMS_
Titanic_Musician's_Memorial,_Southampton.jpg

The Archibald Butt cenotaph in Arlington is an empty grave, rather than an
empty tomb:

http://www.glts.org/memorials/dc/images/107_0710.jpg

The Congressional Cemetery in Washington has monuments to 171 members of
the U.S. Congress who died in office. They're all called 'cenotaphs' in an
abuse of terminology, since somewhere between fifty and eighty of them mark
actual burial places. (The remainder truly are cenotaphs to individuals
whose remains are interred elsewhere.) The Congressional ones from 1816 to
1876 are built to a standard design by Benjamin Latrobe.

https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/national_cemeteries/photos/
list_of-sites2/054_Cenotaphs.jpg
http://www.congressionalcemetery.org/pdf/Walking-Tours/Cenotaphs.pdf

Generally, I would propose tagging anything as a 'cenotaph' only if it was
built intending that it should be venerated as a surrogate for the final
resting place of some person or persons whose remains lie elsewhere.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <
dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 2016-09-21 23:57 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Some resemble a tomb, some don't  some are statues, some are plaques,
>> some are columns.
>>
>> Wikipedia has quite a few photos of some ...
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph
>>
>> I suppose it depend on what you think a tomb looks like?
>>
>
>
> yes, I suppose so as well. To me, all of these Cenotaphs that WP has an
> image for are looking like tombs. A "plaque" or "statue" are no cenotaphs,
> do you have an example for one of these?
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-09-21 23:57 GMT+02:00 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>:

> Some resemble a tomb, some don't  some are statues, some are plaques,
> some are columns.
>
> Wikipedia has quite a few photos of some ...
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph
>
> I suppose it depend on what you think a tomb looks like?
>


yes, I suppose so as well. To me, all of these Cenotaphs that WP has an
image for are looking like tombs. A "plaque" or "statue" are no cenotaphs,
do you have an example for one of these?

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Warin]

On 21-Sep-16 10:22 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



sent from a phone

Il giorno 21 set 2016, alle ore 12:08, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> ha scritto:


If tomb=cenotaph then money in your bank account = no money in your 
bank account?



maybe this is not a bad allegory ;-)
a cenotaph is a tomb without the corpse, but looks like a tomb, is 
purposefully designed as a tomb. unless you check you might even be 
intrigued to believe it is a tomb.


Some resemble a tomb, some don't  some are statues, some are 
plaques, some are columns.


Wikipedia has quite a few photos of some ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph

I suppose it depend on what you think a tomb looks like?

 
https://www.warmemorialsregister.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/styles/galleria_zoom/public/1284g.jpg?

https://www.warmemorialsregister.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/727a.jpg

I like the statue ones.
-

A German translation of cenotaph gets ehrenmal. An English translation 
of ehrenmal gets both cenotaph and memorial.
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 21 set 2016, alle ore 12:08, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> ha 
> scritto:
> 
> If tomb=cenotaph then money in your bank account = no money in your bank 
> account? 


maybe this is not a bad allegory ;-)
a cenotaph is a tomb without the corpse, but looks like a tomb, is purposefully 
designed as a tomb. unless you check you might even be intrigued to believe it 
is a tomb.
Similarly your bank account is made to look as if there was money, but actually 
there are only numbers, if all customers would go together to the bank and ask 
for their money, they could not get it ;-)

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Janko Mihelić]

sri, 21. ruj 2016. 02:59 Martin Koppenhoefer  je
napisao:

>
>  You can (also additionally) add a memorial:type=cenotaph.
>

Memorial:type is a bad tag. Look at the values:

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/memorial%3Atype#values

There's obelisk, and then there is war_memorial. They are different
classes. A war_memorial or a cenotaph could be an obelisk, plaque or
whatewer. Additionally, a war_memorial is often a cenotaph. Majority of
values now show the form of the memorial, so we should stick to that.

>
Maybe just cenotaph=yes? That way a tomb can have the same tag. Something
can be a functional grave, just with no body (maybe the body was removed,
or it was expected to be found). Or it can just be a memorial, said to be a
cenotaph.

Janko
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Warin]

On 21-Sep-16 10:58 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:


2016-09-21 2:41 GMT+02:00 Kevin Kenny >:


Be as pedantic as you please. I'll be happy to tag a cenotaph or
three if a consensus ever emerges.



just use any tag you feel appropriate. If there will ever be a 
consensus that tomb=cenotaph is a bad tag and a better tag is chosen, 
you can easily change your objects. If you don't tag it, nobody can 
find it ;-) You can (also additionally) add a memorial:type=cenotaph.


Tomb = a place with something (remains/body/ashes etc)
Cenotaph = a place without that something (remains/body/ashes etc)

If tomb=cenotaph then money in your bank account = no money in your bank 
account? You can send it to me. :)


--
I would think most cenotaphs are in commemoration of WW1 & WW2 ... and 
as such are specifically mentioned in the OSM wiki for historic=memorial 
as "usually remembering special persons, peoples lost their lives in the 
wars. "



I have just gone through the LPI cenotaphs (valid OSM data) and 
added those not in the data base as historic=memorial with 
description=cenotaph ... in this way I avoided invention yet another 
tag.  You can add the description tag to anything .. even a tomb.
I have also add the description tag to some cenotaphs I know that are 
not in the LPI data base (but in the OSM data base .. I added them some 
time ago).  I know there are a lot more around .. used infrequently .. 
11 November and ANZAC day spring to mind.






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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Kevin Kenny]

Be as pedantic as you please. I'll be happy to tag a cenotaph or three if a
consensus ever emerges.


On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 7:34 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20-Sep-16 06:30 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> Il giorno 20 set 2016, alle ore 08:59, Steve Doerr <
> doerr.step...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> And the word actually *means* 'empty tomb': 'ancient Greek *κενοτάϕιον* <
> *κενός* empty [...] + *τάϕος* tomb' (Oxford English Dictionary).
>
>
>
> +1, I have added the tomb=cenotaph tag to
> the proposal: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/tombs#
> Subtagging_types
>
>
> the tag
> tomb=cenotaph
>
> would be like
> building=no_building
>
> makes little sense.
>
> Cenotaphs are memorials/monuments. Not the place of burial therefore not a
> tomb.
> A small sample of past use in OSM are;
> Node The Cenotaph (59598355) -  London, UK
> Way The Cenotaph (99953212)' San Antonio, USA
> Node (1290835360) - Cenotaph - Montreal, Canada
> Node: Cenotaph (3687638609) Hiroshima, Japan
> Node: Cenotaph (2434280368) Saskatchewan, Canada
> Node: Penang Cenotaph (1726781335) Malaysia
> Node: Cenotaph (4011033735) Belfast, Ireland
>
>
>
> The meaning of the Greek root ... and the meaning of the present English
> are different as happens over time and with translations between languages
> (Greek-Latin-English).
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Warin]

On 20-Sep-16 06:30 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:



sent from a phone

Il giorno 20 set 2016, alle ore 08:59, Steve Doerr 
> ha scritto:


And the word actually *means* 'empty tomb': 'ancient Greek 
/κενοτάϕιον/ < /κενός/ empty [...] + /τάϕος/ tomb' (Oxford English 
Dictionary).



+1, I have added the tomb=cenotaph tag to
the proposal: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/tombs#Subtagging_types


the tag
tomb=cenotaph

would be like
building=no_building

makes little sense.

Cenotaphs are memorials/monuments. Not the place of burial therefore not 
a tomb.

A small sample of past use in OSM are;
Node The Cenotaph (59598355) -  London, UK
Way The Cenotaph (99953212)' San Antonio, USA
Node (1290835360) - Cenotaph - Montreal, Canada
Node: Cenotaph (3687638609) Hiroshima, Japan
Node: Cenotaph (2434280368) Saskatchewan, Canada
Node: Penang Cenotaph (1726781335) Malaysia
Node: Cenotaph (4011033735) Belfast, Ireland



The meaning of the Greek root ... and the meaning of the present English 
are different as happens over time and with translations between 
languages (Greek-Latin-English).
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Kevin Kenny]

On Tue, Sep 20, 2016 at 2:59 AM, Steve Doerr 
wrote:

> And the word actually *means* 'empty tomb': 'ancient Greek *κενοτάϕιον* <
> *κενός* empty [...] + *τάϕος* tomb' (Oxford English Dictionary).
>
>
>
 I became familiar with the word because of my family's history. Two of my
great-grandfathers were lost at sea. They perished in separate calamities;
the life of a fisherman is a hard one, and often a short one as well. My
step-grandfather never returned from a hunting trip in the Catskill
Mountains. All three have their cenotaphs in a cemetery near New York City.

To the best of my knowledge, I was the first person in my family to climb
the mountain where my step-grandfather disappeared, over seventy years
later. It is not a cenotaph, but I left a memorial in the climbers' log
book at the summit.  https://flic.kr/p/oYmftb
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 20 set 2016, alle ore 08:59, Steve Doerr  
> ha scritto:
> 
> And the word actually *means* 'empty tomb': 'ancient Greek κενοτάϕιον < κενός 
> empty [...] + τάϕος tomb' (Oxford English Dictionary).


+1, I have added the tomb=cenotaph tag to
the proposal: 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/tombs#Subtagging_types

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Steve Doerr]

On 19/09/2016 23:36, Kevin Kenny wrote:


In what way is it not a cenotaph? It is clearly a structural monument. 
It is in memory of a deceased person. Said deceased person is not 
entombed there, although his remains are thought to be in an unmarked 
grave somewhere nearby. It looks like a tomb, but nobody is entombed 
in it.





And the word actually *means* 'empty tomb': 'ancient Greek /κενοτάϕιον/ 
< /κενός/ empty [...] + /τάϕος/ tomb' (Oxford English Dictionary).


--
Steve


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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Warin]

Sorry .. reread your words..


While the 'monument' is alleged to have the remains under them .. then 
the monument is sited on an (alleged) 'tomb'. As such the monument is 
part of the 'tomb'.


Even the title of the photo says 'tomb'.

I would not take it as a good example of a 'cenotaph'.
Possibly
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/AlamoMemorial-0727.jpg/400px-AlamoMemorial-0727.jpg 
would be better?


Note that is not a tomb.

  On 20-Sep-16 03:43 PM, Warin wrote:

Read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuben_Memorial_State_Historic_Site

That says his remains are in said tomb... as shown in your linked photo.
The only reference I can see to a 'cenotaph' are your words ... where 
do you get it from?


On 20-Sep-16 08:36 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:


In what way is it not a cenotaph? It is clearly a structural 
monument. It is in memory of a deceased person. Said deceased person 
is not entombed there, although his remains are thought to be in an 
unmarked grave somewhere nearby. It looks like a tomb, but nobody is 
entombed in it.



On Sep 19, 2016 6:31 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


On 20-Sep-16 12:51 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:

tomb=cenotaph sounds perfect, if unusual.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuben_Memorial_State_Historic_Site#/media/File:Baron_von_Steuben_Monumental_Tomb_Jul_10.jpg


is the cenotaph that I was mapping when the question arose.
Baron von Steuben's remains are in an unmarked grave somewhere
nearby. The 'memorial tomb' was erected, contrary to his express
wish to be buried in an unmarked grave, decades after his death.
It is claimed, but by no means certain, that the memorial covers
his remains. He is most certainly not entombed within it.



Not a 'cenotaph'. _Cenotaphs are not tombs_!

A definition of cenotaph is;
a) a structural monument in memory to a deceased person whose
body is elsewhere (so not a tomb)
b) a municipal, civic, or national memorial to those killed in war.

On the LPI data base (for Australia, New South Wales) there are
13 listed 'cenotaphs'.



On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:


2016-09-19 13:17 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer
>:

there's only one memorial:type=cenotaph



btw., those cenotaphs wikipedia has as examples in osm would
rather be historic=monument than memorial I think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph


Cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> Il giorno 20 set 2016, alle ore 05:04, Marc Gemis  ha 
> scritto:
> 
> Except for JFK memorial en Voortrekkers monument, which look like OSM 
> monuments to me
> 


not "except for", but "also". I had written that those are usually all 
monuments and not memorials in osm tagging ;-)
IMHO, we could combine historic=monument and tomb=cenotaph on the same object, 
why not.

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Warin]

Read
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuben_Memorial_State_Historic_Site

That says his remains are in said tomb... as shown in your linked photo.
The only reference I can see to a 'cenotaph' are your words ... where do 
you get it from?


On 20-Sep-16 08:36 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:


In what way is it not a cenotaph? It is clearly a structural monument. 
It is in memory of a deceased person. Said deceased person is not 
entombed there, although his remains are thought to be in an unmarked 
grave somewhere nearby. It looks like a tomb, but nobody is entombed 
in it.



On Sep 19, 2016 6:31 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com 
> wrote:


On 20-Sep-16 12:51 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:

tomb=cenotaph sounds perfect, if unusual.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuben_Memorial_State_Historic_Site#/media/File:Baron_von_Steuben_Monumental_Tomb_Jul_10.jpg


is the cenotaph that I was mapping when the question arose. Baron
von Steuben's remains are in an unmarked grave somewhere nearby.
The 'memorial tomb' was erected, contrary to his express wish to
be buried in an unmarked grave, decades after his death. It is
claimed, but by no means certain, that the memorial covers his
remains. He is most certainly not entombed within it.



Not a 'cenotaph'. _Cenotaphs are not tombs_!

A definition of cenotaph is;
a) a structural monument in memory to a deceased person whose body
is elsewhere (so not a tomb)
b) a municipal, civic, or national memorial to those killed in war.

On the LPI data base (for Australia, New South Wales) there are 13
listed 'cenotaphs'.



On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:


2016-09-19 13:17 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer
>:

there's only one memorial:type=cenotaph



btw., those cenotaphs wikipedia has as examples in osm would
rather be historic=monument than memorial I think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph


Cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Marc Gemis]

Except for JFK memorial en Voortrekkers monument, which look like OSM
monuments to me

m

Op 19 sep. 2016 14:34 schreef "Martin Koppenhoefer" :

>
> 2016-09-19 13:17 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>> there's only one memorial:type=cenotaph
>
>
>
> btw., those cenotaphs wikipedia has as examples in osm would rather be
> historic=monument than memorial I think:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Kevin Kenny]

In what way is it not a cenotaph? It is clearly a structural monument. It
is in memory of a deceased person. Said deceased person is not entombed
there, although his remains are thought to be in an unmarked grave
somewhere nearby. It looks like a tomb, but nobody is entombed in it.

On Sep 19, 2016 6:31 PM, "Warin" <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20-Sep-16 12:51 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
>
> tomb=cenotaph sounds perfect, if unusual.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuben_Memorial_State_
> Historic_Site#/media/File:Baron_von_Steuben_Monumental_Tomb_Jul_10.jpg is
> the cenotaph that I was mapping when the question arose. Baron von
> Steuben's remains are in an unmarked grave somewhere nearby. The 'memorial
> tomb' was erected, contrary to his express wish to be buried in an unmarked
> grave, decades after his death. It is claimed, but by no means certain,
> that the memorial covers his remains. He is most certainly not entombed
> within it.
>
>
>
> Not a 'cenotaph'. *Cenotaphs are not tombs*!
>
> A definition of cenotaph is;
> a) a structural monument in memory to a deceased person whose body is
> elsewhere (so not a tomb)
> b) a municipal, civic, or national memorial to those killed in war.
>
> On the LPI data base (for Australia, New South Wales) there are 13 listed
> 'cenotaphs'.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer <
> dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 2016-09-19 13:17 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>>
>>> there's only one memorial:type=cenotaph
>>
>>
>>
>> btw., those cenotaphs wikipedia has as examples in osm would rather be
>> historic=monument than memorial I think:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Martin
>>
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Warin]

On 20-Sep-16 12:51 AM, Kevin Kenny wrote:

tomb=cenotaph sounds perfect, if unusual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuben_Memorial_State_Historic_Site#/media/File:Baron_von_Steuben_Monumental_Tomb_Jul_10.jpg 
is the cenotaph that I was mapping when the question arose. Baron von 
Steuben's remains are in an unmarked grave somewhere nearby. The 
'memorial tomb' was erected, contrary to his express wish to be buried 
in an unmarked grave, decades after his death. It is claimed, but by 
no means certain, that the memorial covers his remains. He is most 
certainly not entombed within it.



Not a 'cenotaph'. _Cenotaphs are not tombs_!

A definition of cenotaph is;
a) a structural monument in memory to a deceased person whose body is 
elsewhere (so not a tomb)

b) a municipal, civic, or national memorial to those killed in war.

On the LPI data base (for Australia, New South Wales) there are 13 
listed 'cenotaphs'.



On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> wrote:



2016-09-19 13:17 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer
>:

there's only one memorial:type=cenotaph



btw., those cenotaphs wikipedia has as examples in osm would
rather be historic=monument than memorial I think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph


Cheers,
Martin

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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Kevin Kenny]

tomb=cenotaph sounds perfect, if unusual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuben_Memorial_State_Historic_Site#/media/File:Baron_von_Steuben_Monumental_Tomb_Jul_10.jpg
is the cenotaph that I was mapping when the question arose. Baron von
Steuben's remains are in an unmarked grave somewhere nearby. The 'memorial
tomb' was erected, contrary to his express wish to be buried in an unmarked
grave, decades after his death. It is claimed, but by no means certain,
that the memorial covers his remains. He is most certainly not entombed
within it.


On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer  wrote:

>
> 2016-09-19 13:17 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :
>
>> there's only one memorial:type=cenotaph
>
>
>
> btw., those cenotaphs wikipedia has as examples in osm would rather be
> historic=monument than memorial I think:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
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Re: [Tagging] Cenotaph WAS Re: Tagging memorial sites

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2016-09-19 13:17 GMT+02:00 Martin Koppenhoefer :

> there's only one memorial:type=cenotaph



btw., those cenotaphs wikipedia has as examples in osm would rather be
historic=monument than memorial I think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenotaph

Cheers,
Martin
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