Re: [Tagging] shops for display
Thanks to everyone for their input. I will sustain from using shop=display_only or similar and use advertising tags and shop=vacant instead. Anne On 23/11/2023 02:20, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: Nov 22, 2023, 22:05 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: sent from a phone On 22 Nov 2023, at 18:33, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: I would consider it more as device than showroom can you provide a dictionary definition for “device” that could refer to a room? Because the ones I looked at wouldn’t fit. I was referring to display setup in windows and/or orientationally boarded up vacant shop, not to a room. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
Nov 22, 2023, 22:05 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > >> On 22 Nov 2023, at 18:33, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging >> wrote: >> >> I would consider it more as device than showroom >> > > > can you provide a dictionary definition for “device” that could refer to a > room? Because the ones I looked at wouldn’t fit. > I was referring to display setup in windows and/or orientationally boarded up vacant shop, not to a room. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
sent from a phone > On 22 Nov 2023, at 18:33, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging > wrote: > > I would consider it more as device than showroom can you provide a dictionary definition for “device” that could refer to a room? Because the ones I looked at wouldn’t fit. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
Nov 22, 2023, 17:47 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > Am Mi., 22. Nov. 2023 um 17:12 Uhr schrieb Anne- Karoline Distel > : > >> >> My case was where you can't enter the premises, it's really just displaying >> goods or even (slightly different) displaying contact details for the >> business which has moved to the outskirts of town. >> > > > yes, your thread was somehow "hi-jacked" because we discovered we > might also need tagging for showrooms. I think the best solution for > your situation is no shop and maybe some advertising=* tag > Actually "advertising" says it is for advertising devices, and your > situation isn't a device I guess, so maybe it is a showroom without > admittance? > I would consider it more as device than showroom ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
Am Mi., 22. Nov. 2023 um 17:12 Uhr schrieb Anne- Karoline Distel : > > My case was where you can't enter the premises, it's really just displaying > goods or even (slightly different) displaying contact details for the > business which has moved to the outskirts of town. yes, your thread was somehow "hi-jacked" because we discovered we might also need tagging for showrooms. I think the best solution for your situation is no shop and maybe some advertising=* tag Actually "advertising" says it is for advertising devices, and your situation isn't a device I guess, so maybe it is a showroom without admittance? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
there is also https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Doutpost "Shop primarily used to pick-up items ordered online. May have meager supply of products." which was used for shops which has basically no actual supply of products ( or sometimes nothing at all) >From what I heard name of shop type makes no sense in English in this context, shop=* is dubious here but I am not aware of a better tagging for that Nov 22, 2023, 11:22 by p...@trigpoint.me.uk: > This is becoming much more of a problem. > > In the UK we have a shop called Argos, where you order from a catalogue then > the item appears on a conveyor from an attached storage area a few minutes > later. You could also ask to see something before you bought it. A few years > ago they were large shops that had stock of pretty much everything in the > catalogue. > > Now they have become small areas in a supermarket which have no stock and > everything has to be ordered online and collected the next day. Other high > street shops are going the same way and making themselves irrelevant. > > > On 21 November 2023 20:42:02 GMT, Niels Elgaard Larsen > wrote: > >> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 13:01:32 +0100 >> Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> sent from a phone >>> On 21 Nov 2023, at 12:47, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote: The wiki for Tesla says that Tesla showrooms are tagged shop=car A lot of shop=kitchen are really showrooms where you can order a kitchen which will be installed in you kitchen. The shop do not actually have kitchens for sale in the store. >> >> >> I agree with that. >> >> But from the users point of view, there are some implicit expectations >> depending of what is sold. >> >> For shop=estate_agent it should be obvious that you do not get anything >> physical at the store. >> >> For shop=car it is less clear. >> Also for shop=kitchen, some places will sell you a flatpack kitchen, >> that you can put in the back of your car. >> >> I once drove to a shop=pet only to find out that it was the office for >> a pet webshop that had a small showroom of cat scrathcing pads, etc. >> >> For eg furniture, appliances, bathroom devices, bicycles, glassware >> there are showrooms and a user could reasonable expect to be able to go >> there and just buy an item. >> >> With more stuff being sold online, we will probably see more showrooms, >> and I think we should have a way to tell users if they can buy anything >> at a shop, or it is just a showroom. >> >>> >>> „ordering“ a kitchen or car in a shop is a sale, IMHO. The word sale >>> does not imply you take the goods away with you immediately, nor that >>> they are necessarily present at the point of sale. >>> >>> Cheers Martin >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
This is becoming much more of a problem. In the UK we have a shop called Argos, where you order from a catalogue then the item appears on a conveyor from an attached storage area a few minutes later. You could also ask to see something before you bought it. A few years ago they were large shops that had stock of pretty much everything in the catalogue. Now they have become small areas in a supermarket which have no stock and everything has to be ordered online and collected the next day. Other high street shops are going the same way and making themselves irrelevant. On 21 November 2023 20:42:02 GMT, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote: >On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 13:01:32 +0100 >Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> >> >>sent from a phone >> >>> On 21 Nov 2023, at 12:47, Niels Elgaard Larsen >>> wrote: The wiki for Tesla says that Tesla showrooms are tagged >>> shop=car A lot of shop=kitchen are really showrooms where you can >>> order a kitchen which will be installed in you kitchen. The shop do >>> not actually have kitchens for sale in the store. > > >I agree with that. > >But from the users point of view, there are some implicit expectations >depending of what is sold. > >For shop=estate_agent it should be obvious that you do not get anything >physical at the store. > >For shop=car it is less clear. >Also for shop=kitchen, some places will sell you a flatpack kitchen, >that you can put in the back of your car. > >I once drove to a shop=pet only to find out that it was the office for >a pet webshop that had a small showroom of cat scrathcing pads, etc. > >For eg furniture, appliances, bathroom devices, bicycles, glassware >there are showrooms and a user could reasonable expect to be able to go >there and just buy an item. > >With more stuff being sold online, we will probably see more showrooms, >and I think we should have a way to tell users if they can buy anything >at a shop, or it is just a showroom. > >> >>„ordering“ a kitchen or car in a shop is a sale, IMHO. The word sale >>does not imply you take the goods away with you immediately, nor that >>they are necessarily present at the point of sale. >> >>Cheers Martin >>___ >>Tagging mailing list >>Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > >___ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
sent from a phone > On 21 Nov 2023, at 21:42, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote: > > With more stuff being sold online, we will probably see more showrooms, > and I think we should have a way to tell users if they can buy anything > at a shop, or it is just a showroom yes, this is a good idea. The original question was different though, as from what I understood the shop was closed, you could only look from the outside, this is a different situation from a showroom where you can enter (and possibly try the product, talk to staff etc.) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
Showroom... It's not a room either, usually the public can't enter the prémices, just have a look through the window. Yves Le 21 novembre 2023 12:40:51 GMT+01:00, Niels Elgaard Larsen a écrit : >On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 08:00:53 +0100 (CET) >Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > >>advertising=display_window works much better than shop=display_only >>(as it is not a shop) > > >Yes, if it is a vacant shop. > >>though maybe there is value with more immediately clear meaning? > > > >The wiki for Tesla says that Tesla showrooms are tagged shop=car >A lot of shop=kitchen are really showrooms where you can order a >kitchen which will be installed in you kitchen. The shop do not actually >have kitchens for sale in the store. > >There are more that 100 "showroom" tags in OSM. >Maybe we could use showroom=only for shops that are only showrooms. > > > >>Nov 20, 2023, 21:37 by 1998alexk...@gmail.com: >> >>> >>> Sounds like something like "advertising=display_window" or similar >>> would make more sense >>> >>> >>> Alex >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 21:29 Martin Koppenhoefer <> >>> dieterdre...@gmail.com> > wrote: sent from a phone > On 20 Nov 2023, at 20:59, Anne-Karoline Distel <>> > annekadis...@web.de>> > wrote: > > Hi, > > is there a way to tag shops that are not used for selling goods > directly, but are just used for display for the actual shop or > even to advertise something different? Here in Ireland, I think > they are often used to hide the fact that it's actually a vacant > premises, and rates are also different, I believe, if you're not > actually conducting business there. Would "shop=display_only" be > a way to do it? I would still like to have an option to mark > them as vacant, in a way. > > They could be using the space inside to display their goods or > even just have the windows covered in decals to advertise that > they have moved or to advertise local sights or whatever. according to the wiki a shop is selling goods or services, if they don’t do either it’s not a shop for OpenStreetMap. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > >___ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 13:01:32 +0100 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > >sent from a phone > >> On 21 Nov 2023, at 12:47, Niels Elgaard Larsen >> wrote: The wiki for Tesla says that Tesla showrooms are tagged >> shop=car A lot of shop=kitchen are really showrooms where you can >> order a kitchen which will be installed in you kitchen. The shop do >> not actually have kitchens for sale in the store. I agree with that. But from the users point of view, there are some implicit expectations depending of what is sold. For shop=estate_agent it should be obvious that you do not get anything physical at the store. For shop=car it is less clear. Also for shop=kitchen, some places will sell you a flatpack kitchen, that you can put in the back of your car. I once drove to a shop=pet only to find out that it was the office for a pet webshop that had a small showroom of cat scrathcing pads, etc. For eg furniture, appliances, bathroom devices, bicycles, glassware there are showrooms and a user could reasonable expect to be able to go there and just buy an item. With more stuff being sold online, we will probably see more showrooms, and I think we should have a way to tell users if they can buy anything at a shop, or it is just a showroom. > >„ordering“ a kitchen or car in a shop is a sale, IMHO. The word sale >does not imply you take the goods away with you immediately, nor that >they are necessarily present at the point of sale. > >Cheers Martin >___ >Tagging mailing list >Tagging@openstreetmap.org >https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
sent from a phone > On 21 Nov 2023, at 12:47, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote: > The wiki for Tesla says that Tesla showrooms are tagged shop=car > A lot of shop=kitchen are really showrooms where you can order a > kitchen which will be installed in you kitchen. The shop do not actually > have kitchens for sale in the store. „ordering“ a kitchen or car in a shop is a sale, IMHO. The word sale does not imply you take the goods away with you immediately, nor that they are necessarily present at the point of sale. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 08:00:53 +0100 (CET) Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: >advertising=display_window works much better than shop=display_only >(as it is not a shop) Yes, if it is a vacant shop. >though maybe there is value with more immediately clear meaning? The wiki for Tesla says that Tesla showrooms are tagged shop=car A lot of shop=kitchen are really showrooms where you can order a kitchen which will be installed in you kitchen. The shop do not actually have kitchens for sale in the store. There are more that 100 "showroom" tags in OSM. Maybe we could use showroom=only for shops that are only showrooms. >Nov 20, 2023, 21:37 by 1998alexk...@gmail.com: > >> >> Sounds like something like "advertising=display_window" or similar >> would make more sense >> >> >> Alex >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 21:29 Martin Koppenhoefer <> >> dieterdre...@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> sent from a phone >>> >>> > On 20 Nov 2023, at 20:59, Anne-Karoline Distel <>> >>> > annekadis...@web.de>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > is there a way to tag shops that are not used for selling goods >>> > directly, but are just used for display for the actual shop or >>> > even to advertise something different? Here in Ireland, I think >>> > they are often used to hide the fact that it's actually a vacant >>> > premises, and rates are also different, I believe, if you're not >>> > actually conducting business there. Would "shop=display_only" be >>> > a way to do it? I would still like to have an option to mark >>> > them as vacant, in a way. >>> > >>> > They could be using the space inside to display their goods or >>> > even just have the windows covered in decals to advertise that >>> > they have moved or to advertise local sights or whatever. >>> >>> >>> according to the wiki a shop is selling goods or services, if they >>> don’t do either it’s not a shop for OpenStreetMap. >>> Cheers Martin >>> ___ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
On 21/11/23 06:56, Anne-Karoline Distel wrote: have the windows covered in decals to advertise that they have moved or to advertise local sights or whatever. In the above case move the shop data to the new location and then add shop=vacant to this previous location. This would stop map users mistaking the 'sign' as the 'shop'. The other use of the 'shop' location is for advertising as others have noted. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
advertising=display_window works much better than shop=display_only (as it is not a shop) though maybe there is value with more immediately clear meaning? Nov 20, 2023, 21:37 by 1998alexk...@gmail.com: > > Sounds like something like "advertising=display_window" or similar would make > more sense > > > Alex > > > On Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 21:29 Martin Koppenhoefer <> dieterdre...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> >> >> sent from a phone >> >> > On 20 Nov 2023, at 20:59, Anne-Karoline Distel <>> annekadis...@web.de>> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Hi, >> > >> > is there a way to tag shops that are not used for selling goods >> > directly, but are just used for display for the actual shop or even to >> > advertise something different? Here in Ireland, I think they are often >> > used to hide the fact that it's actually a vacant premises, and rates >> > are also different, I believe, if you're not actually conducting >> > business there. Would "shop=display_only" be a way to do it? I would >> > still like to have an option to mark them as vacant, in a way. >> > >> > They could be using the space inside to display their goods or even just >> > have the windows covered in decals to advertise that they have moved or >> > to advertise local sights or whatever. >> >> >> according to the wiki a shop is selling goods or services, if they don’t do >> either it’s not a shop for OpenStreetMap. >> >> Cheers Martin >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
Sounds like something like "advertising=display_window" or similar would make more sense Alex On Mon, Nov 20, 2023, 21:29 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 20 Nov 2023, at 20:59, Anne-Karoline Distel > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > is there a way to tag shops that are not used for selling goods > > directly, but are just used for display for the actual shop or even to > > advertise something different? Here in Ireland, I think they are often > > used to hide the fact that it's actually a vacant premises, and rates > > are also different, I believe, if you're not actually conducting > > business there. Would "shop=display_only" be a way to do it? I would > > still like to have an option to mark them as vacant, in a way. > > > > They could be using the space inside to display their goods or even just > > have the windows covered in decals to advertise that they have moved or > > to advertise local sights or whatever. > > > according to the wiki a shop is selling goods or services, if they don’t > do either it’s not a shop for OpenStreetMap. > > Cheers Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] shops for display
sent from a phone > On 20 Nov 2023, at 20:59, Anne-Karoline Distel wrote: > > Hi, > > is there a way to tag shops that are not used for selling goods > directly, but are just used for display for the actual shop or even to > advertise something different? Here in Ireland, I think they are often > used to hide the fact that it's actually a vacant premises, and rates > are also different, I believe, if you're not actually conducting > business there. Would "shop=display_only" be a way to do it? I would > still like to have an option to mark them as vacant, in a way. > > They could be using the space inside to display their goods or even just > have the windows covered in decals to advertise that they have moved or > to advertise local sights or whatever. according to the wiki a shop is selling goods or services, if they don’t do either it’s not a shop for OpenStreetMap. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
