Re: [GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

That was it. I didn't realize the displays were overlayed. The fix took
seconds after implementing what you said using the GUI.

Many thanks.

On 11 October 2017 at 18:56, Scott Sullivan via talk 
wrote:

> On 11/10/17 12:02 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
>
>> This is the output of my xrandr:
>>
>> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 16384 x 16384
>> HDMI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
>> DVI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis
>>
>   \---/
>
> This chunk here, tells you what part of the framebuffer the monitor is
> occupying. In this case, it's 1920 wide, 1080 tall, and it's top-left
> offset is 0,0.
>
> VGA-0 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
>>
>
> Same here, 1920 wide, 1080 tall, and it's top-left offset is 0,0.So
> they're on top of each other, and showing the same video output.
>
> Before the updates, both screens were able to report maximum resolution
>> and even the make/model.
>>
>
> Do you mean that there used to resolutions available higher then 1920x1080?
>
> Now that's only reported for the main (HDMI-connected) screen
>>
> Your Xrandr out does not say your using an HDMI output. Just your VGA and
> DVI outputs.
>
> I'm assuming the driver has correct labels for your card. But you could
> also be using adapters, or evening the built in support for DVI that is
> mandatory HDMI equipment.
>
> Old, but still good explanation:
> https://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/2013-September/061899.html
>
>
> I attach a screenshot of the config window that I once used to make it
>> work under KDE.
>>
>
> KDE user here myself, as both monitors are position at 0,0 they are going
> to be drawn one on top of the other in the UI. You should be able to drag
> the top one off the other. Although, it says their not unified, so clicking
> unify, and then 'break unify' (same button, different states), might pop
> them apart for you in the UI (does for me at least).
>
> But failing that, there is also the direct approach.
>
> # xrandr --output DVI-0 --auto --primary --rotate normal --output VGA-0
> --auto --right-of DVI-0
>
> That should put the VGA-0's output on relative right of the DVI-0's
> output. This would make VGA-0's size and position 1920x1080+1920+0
>
>
> --
> Scott Sullivan
> ---
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> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
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Re: [GTALUG] Reminder: Board Elections Today

[Bob Jonkman via talk]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Any news on the outcome of executive elections? The candidate list
below is shorter than the vacancy list...

- --Bob.

On 2017-10-10 02:47 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
> Today's meeting is special, it is the AGM. It's where members
> reaffirm their commitment to this community. Where volunteers step
> up to the board in order to guide month to month operations.
> 
> Three of our five board seats will be open this year, for two year 
> terms. Two of the incumbents, Myles Braithwaite, and Stewart
> Russell, have indicated that they will not be running for another
> term. We want to invite you as members to take a new, or even
> renewed, active role.
> 
> Please consider running for the board, and keep in mind the
> following.
> 
> The formal qualifications that must be satisfied: - Must be a
> member in good standing - Must not have any undischarged
> bankruptcy
> 
> It is also important to be able to be available most months for 
> Board/Operations meetings where we plan GTALUG meetings and
> activities.
> 
> Board members are involved in and support the following
> activities. - Finding speakers for our monthly presentations -
> Running our internet infrastructure (website and mailing lists) -
> Organizing and running our annual Linux in the Park picnic
> 
> If you are interested, we'd appreciate it very much if you can
> submit your intention to run to bo...@gtalug.org
> 
> The current list of Candidates (Alphabetical by Lastname): - Gordon
> Chillcott - Scott Sullivan
> 
> Potential Candidates are still welcome to announce their intention
> to run at the AGM.
> 

- -- 
Bob Jonkman   Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
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Re: [GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On 11/10/17 12:02 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:

This is the output of my xrandr:

Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 16384 x 16384
HDMI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
DVI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis 

  \---/

This chunk here, tells you what part of the framebuffer the monitor is 
occupying. In this case, it's 1920 wide, 1080 tall, and it's top-left 
offset is 0,0.


VGA-0 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 


Same here, 1920 wide, 1080 tall, and it's top-left offset is 0,0.So 
they're on top of each other, and showing the same video output.


Before the updates, both screens were able to report maximum resolution 
and even the make/model.


Do you mean that there used to resolutions available higher then 1920x1080?


Now that's only reported for the main (HDMI-connected) screen
Your Xrandr out does not say your using an HDMI output. Just your VGA 
and DVI outputs.


I'm assuming the driver has correct labels for your card. But you could 
also be using adapters, or evening the built in support for DVI that is 
mandatory HDMI equipment.


Old, but still good explanation:
https://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/2013-September/061899.html


I attach a screenshot of the config window that I once used to make it 
work under KDE.


KDE user here myself, as both monitors are position at 0,0 they are 
going to be drawn one on top of the other in the UI. You should be able 
to drag the top one off the other. Although, it says their not unified, 
so clicking unify, and then 'break unify' (same button, different 
states), might pop them apart for you in the UI (does for me at least).


But failing that, there is also the direct approach.

# xrandr --output DVI-0 --auto --primary --rotate normal --output VGA-0 
--auto --right-of DVI-0


That should put the VGA-0's output on relative right of the DVI-0's 
output. This would make VGA-0's size and position 1920x1080+1920+0


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Re: [GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

This is the output of my xrandr:

Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 16384 x 16384
HDMI-0 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
DVI-0 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y
axis) 531mm x 299mm
  1920x1080 59.93 +  60.00*
  1680x1050 59.88
  1280x1024 75.0260.02
  1280x960  60.00
  1152x864  75.00
  1024x768  75.0360.00
  832x624   74.55
  800x600   75.0060.3256.25
  640x480   75.0059.94
  720x400   70.08
VGA-0 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
477mm x 268mm
  1920x1080 60.00*+
  1680x1050 59.95
  1600x900  60.00
  1280x1024 75.0260.02
  1280x960  60.00
  1152x864  75.00
  1280x720  60.00
  1152x720  59.97
  1024x768  75.0360.00
  832x624   74.55
  800x600   75.0060.32
  640x480   75.0059.94

Before the updates, both screens were able to report maximum resolution and
even the make/model.
Now that's only reported for the main (HDMI-connected) screen.

I attach a screenshot of the config window that I once used to make it work
under KDE.

On 11 October 2017 at 11:18, Scott Sullivan via talk 
wrote:

>
>
> On October 11, 2017 10:19:28 AM EDT, ac via talk  wrote:
> >On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:01:07 -0400
> >Scott Sullivan via talk  wrote:.
> >> Desktop implement UIs that talk to this functionality, and handle the
> >
> >> 'memory' of layouts. KDE's for example will remember transient
> >> moinitor configureations, like my two different laptop docks at home
> >> and work, and will restore the right layout for each, matching
> >> against the Vendor IDs of the monitors.
> >>
> >Okay, but after a kernel update / distro update - no configs 'should
> >have' been over written...
> >
> >as it seems there has been config changes (both screens are still
> >working & mouse moves to both screens, etc etc)
> >
> Not necessarily. Software is free to mangle your configs at run time.
> Distro will knowingly or unknowingly push updates from the upstream that
> 'upgrade' preferences files in ways that don't roll back. Especially in
> desktop applications.
>
> Firefox will be doing this with the 57 release as we learned last night.
>
> But another factor is driver updates can also result in the Output names
> changing. I've seen this in my own laptop. Usually as the generic drives
> gets tweaked to be aware of the specific model.
>
> In that case the old config doesn't match the remembered state and would
> reasonable fall back to defaults. And defaults are the convention of the
> person that wrote the software.
> --
> Scott Sullivan
> ---
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> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>



-- 
Evan Leibovitch
Toronto, Canada

Em: evan at telly dot org
Sk: evanleibovitch
Tw: el56
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Re: [GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[Kevin Cozens via talk]

On 2017-10-11 10:07 AM, Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:

Yes, I am aware that there are many applications out there that can read pdfs.

[snip]

Alternatives?


A number of Linux distros have installed Evince as a program that can read 
various document formats including PDF.


I still mostly use the 9.5.5 version of Adobe Reader under Linux to read PDf 
files.


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Re: [GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[Russell via talk]

On October 11, 2017 12:19:59 PM EDT, "Stewart C. Russell via talk" 
 wrote:
>Hi Dhaval
>> 
>> However the government of Canada (in its infinite wisdom) has
>mandated
>> that to open and fill their forms, one use Adobe Reader. (As an
>> example see
>http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0002E-2.pdf
>> ).
>
>Ah, you've just met XFA¹, Adobe's incompatible-with-itself forms
>standard. These files are produced by Adobe LiveCycle (aka
>DeathSpiral),
>a produce Adobe bought in some years ago and can't seem to integrate
>with its main code base.
>
>You can't even edit these forms in the very expensive Adobe Acrobat
>Pro.
>They come pre-encrypted (but with a blank password) so no-one can break
>DeathSpiral's mess further.
>
>What's very annoying is that the form data is in there somewhere. It's
>just that there's something (Javascript?) that only shows the first
>page. The determined can poke around in the files with qpdf and pdftk,
>but so far, no-one I know has worked their way around it.
>
>> Alternatives?

Don't laugh, I use GIMP. Not perfect by any means but if you fill out the same 
form over and over again, you can figure out the best font and kerning to fit 
in the boxes and save those as defaults. Sure you have to draw the text entry 
box yourself and it never seems to line up correctly, at first but thats 
tweakable It does gets easier the more I do it.
 
Between pdftk and GIMP I get ok results. There may even be some script-fu out 
there to make it easier, but for now I'm plodding through quickly enough. 

>
>This opens and edits them, but it's commercial if you want the full
>version. This free one *might* watermark/distort your PDFs, but I
>haven't seen evidence of this:
>
>https://code-industry.net/free-pdf-editor
>
>Link looks dodgy af, I know.
>
>cheers,
> Stewart
>
>¹: to be fair to Adobe, it *is* possible to create standards-compliant
>XFA forms, just not in LiveCycle.
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Re: [GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[Stewart C. Russell via talk]

Hi Dhaval
> 
> However the government of Canada (in its infinite wisdom) has mandated
> that to open and fill their forms, one use Adobe Reader. (As an
> example see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0002E-2.pdf
> ).

Ah, you've just met XFA¹, Adobe's incompatible-with-itself forms
standard. These files are produced by Adobe LiveCycle (aka DeathSpiral),
a produce Adobe bought in some years ago and can't seem to integrate
with its main code base.

You can't even edit these forms in the very expensive Adobe Acrobat Pro.
They come pre-encrypted (but with a blank password) so no-one can break
DeathSpiral's mess further.

What's very annoying is that the form data is in there somewhere. It's
just that there's something (Javascript?) that only shows the first
page. The determined can poke around in the files with qpdf and pdftk,
but so far, no-one I know has worked their way around it.

> Alternatives?

This opens and edits them, but it's commercial if you want the full
version. This free one *might* watermark/distort your PDFs, but I
haven't seen evidence of this:

https://code-industry.net/free-pdf-editor

Link looks dodgy af, I know.

cheers,
 Stewart

¹: to be fair to Adobe, it *is* possible to create standards-compliant
XFA forms, just not in LiveCycle.
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Re: [GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On October 11, 2017 10:19:28 AM EDT, ac via talk  wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:01:07 -0400
>Scott Sullivan via talk  wrote:.
>> Desktop implement UIs that talk to this functionality, and handle the
>
>> 'memory' of layouts. KDE's for example will remember transient
>> moinitor configureations, like my two different laptop docks at home
>> and work, and will restore the right layout for each, matching
>> against the Vendor IDs of the monitors.
>> 
>Okay, but after a kernel update / distro update - no configs 'should
>have' been over written... 
>
>as it seems there has been config changes (both screens are still
>working & mouse moves to both screens, etc etc)
>
Not necessarily. Software is free to mangle your configs at run time. Distro 
will knowingly or unknowingly push updates from the upstream that 'upgrade' 
preferences files in ways that don't roll back. Especially in desktop 
applications.

Firefox will be doing this with the 57 release as we learned last night.

But another factor is driver updates can also result in the Output names 
changing. I've seen this in my own laptop. Usually as the generic drives gets 
tweaked to be aware of the specific model.

In that case the old config doesn't match the remembered state and would 
reasonable fall back to defaults. And defaults are the convention of the person 
that wrote the software.
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 07:08:40AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> Reading of the announcement of 2 new 'smart' phones at the meeting prompts
> me to ask the question.
> 
> Am I the only person who finds that touch screens don't work worth a !@#$%^
> using my fingers?
> 
> Thumb, index and third finger take repeated attempts to get a result where
> the fourth finger seems to work 'ok' its not very 'comfortable'. I do work
> with my hands, albeit not like I used to, so I do have calluses (they
> really aren't as thick as they have been at some times in the past though),
> - - -- is that
> possibly why I haven't been able to find a touch screen that 'works'.
> 
> I haven't only tried one 'brand' of phone either. The iPhone is a little
> less problematic but not enough so to warrant any kind of purchase from me
> (that's without the absolutely stupid pricing levels). Have used LG,
> Samsung and Motorola and the issue is consistent.
> 
> At this point my opinion on touch screens is that they are over priced
> gadgets that I would rather not use.

I know at least one person that can not use capacitive touch screens.
They just don't work.  The older resistive touch screens work fine,
but of course those can't do multitouch so no one seems to want to put
those in phones anymore.

I guess using touch screen compatible gloves don't help?

The person I know of with the problem works as a gardener, so perhaps
it is a thick skin issue for people that do actual work.

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Re: [GTALUG] MBR and GTP Drives

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:41:01PM -0400, Scott Sullivan via talk wrote:
> Wat?! ((*runs to wikipedia*))... Okay then.
> 
> I wonder under what conditions that secondary table is used. I've never had
> a front wiped disk continue to report a table afterwards. I see it mentions
> CRC checks, so maybe only when there is corporation in first table? A
> question for source code reading on another day.

The second copy us a backup in case the first gets corrupted.  Some tools
will notice it and ask if you want to restore the primary from the backup,
which means not wiping the backup makes some tools think your disk should
be GPT but something corrupted it.

> Anyways I haven't had to pull this sucker out in a few years...
> 
> dd if=/dev/zero of=$YOUR_DEV bs=512 seek=$(( $(blockdev --getsz $YOUR_DEV) -
> 34 )) count=34 #adjust bs=4K for advanced format disks.
> 
> Mostly only needed it for drives with dmraid, which stores it's config at
> the end of disks. Usually found on drives pulled from enterprise HP or DELL
> servers and/or the odd workstation.
> 
> Thankfully in most cases, I'm installing a new GPT partition tables, so it
> would be reasonable assumption the backup would be over written.

gdisk has a nice 'zap' option that removes GPT from the disk.

And yes creating a new GPT would certainly overwrite the old one.
Only a problem if changing a disk from GPT to MBR.

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Re: [GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[Mauro Souza via talk]

I use playonlinux and installed Adobe Reader X. Works fine. It dies from
time to time, but usually works for me.

On Oct 11, 2017 11:40, "ac via talk"  wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:18:31 -0400
> Dhaval Giani via talk  wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Myles Braithwaite  
> > wrote:
> > > Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:
> > >> However the government of Canada (in its infinite wisdom) has
> > >> mandated that to open and fill their forms, one use Adobe Reader.
> > >> (As an example see
> > >> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0002E-2.pdf ).
> > >> Alternatives?
> > > Not sure if you tried this yet but Adobe released a version of
> > > Acrobat Reader for Linux in 2013 you can still download off their
> > > FTP server:
> > > .
> > Hi Myles,
> > I thought about it. But 4 yr old software, from a company that has a
> > history of security issues? :-). Not my first choice.
> >
> //adjust tinfoil to scratch head
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/technology/kaspersky-
> lab-israel-russia-hacking.html
>
> the NSA also has "assets"? **amazed**  - wondering who else has assets
> and how these assets work :)
>
> Andre
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Re: [GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[ac via talk]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:18:31 -0400
Dhaval Giani via talk  wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Myles Braithwaite  
> wrote:
> > Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:  
> >> However the government of Canada (in its infinite wisdom) has
> >> mandated that to open and fill their forms, one use Adobe Reader.
> >> (As an example see
> >> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0002E-2.pdf ).
> >> Alternatives?  
> > Not sure if you tried this yet but Adobe released a version of
> > Acrobat Reader for Linux in 2013 you can still download off their
> > FTP server:
> > .  
> Hi Myles,
> I thought about it. But 4 yr old software, from a company that has a
> history of security issues? :-). Not my first choice.
> 
//adjust tinfoil to scratch head

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/technology/kaspersky-lab-israel-russia-hacking.html

the NSA also has "assets"? **amazed**  - wondering who else has assets
and how these assets work :)

Andre
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Re: [GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[ac via talk]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:01:07 -0400
Scott Sullivan via talk  wrote:
> On 11/10/17 09:10 AM, ac via talk wrote:
> > Hi Evan :)
> > i did not bite as I am not that knowledgable on kde...  but as
> > nobody is saying anything maybe try:
> > mv /home/scott/.config /home/scott/oldconfig
> > 
> > let us know?  
> 
> That's a very broad approach with the disadvantage of moving settings 
> for a whole lot of unrelated applications.
> 
yep, for good reason...

if the screen config is screwed, then very probably other configs are
similarly screwed... 

imho, better to reset to defaults 

and then see what needs changing...

> >> What's stranger (to me) is that when logged out (running LightDM)
> >> the system DOES recognize my mouse pointer going from one screen
> >> to the next. So somewhere it IS being recognized as a separate
> >> screen, but once I log in that goes away and I'm back to a
> >> mirroring situation..  
> xrandr is command line too for handling multi-monitor arrangements. 
> Desktop implement UIs that talk to this functionality, and handle the 
> 'memory' of layouts. KDE's for example will remember transient
> moinitor configureations, like my two different laptop docks at home
> and work, and will restore the right layout for each, matching
> against the Vendor IDs of the monitors.
> 
Okay, but after a kernel update / distro update - no configs 'should
have' been over written... 

as it seems there has been config changes (both screens are still
working & mouse moves to both screens, etc etc)

> The X Rotation and Reflection extensions are how multi-monitor modes
> are handled. In current times, functionally X has one giant display
> buffer, and monitors are small cutouts of that, arranged relative to
> each other.
> 
> This is the output of my currently 'mirrored' two outputs.
> 
cool & good to know :)

> scott  ~  xrandr
> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192
> eDP-1 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x
> axis y axis) 256mm x 144mm
> 1920x1080 59.99*+
> 1400x1050 59.98
> 1280x1024 60.02
> 1280x960  60.00
> 1024x768  60.0460.00
> 960x720   60.00
> 928x696   60.05
> 896x672   60.01
> 800x600   60.0060.3256.25
> 700x525   59.98
> 640x512   60.02
> 640x480   60.0059.94
> 512x384   60.00
> 400x300   60.3256.34
> 320x240   60.05
> HDMI-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
> HDMI-2 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
> axis) 477mm x 268mm
> 1920x1080 60.00*+  59.94
> 1680x1050 59.88
> 1400x1050 59.95
> 1600x900  60.00
> 1280x1024 75.0260.02
> 1440x900  59.90
> 1280x800  59.91
> 1152x864  75.00
> 1280x720  60.0059.94
> 1024x768  75.0360.00
> 800x600   75.0060.32
> 720x576   50.00
> 720x480   60.0059.94
> 640x480   75.0060.0059.94
> 720x400   70.08
> 
> 
> It shows the available outputs, and any that have monitor detected,
> will have their supported Resolutions and refresh rates shown. The
> '+' is the recommended resolution reported by the hardware, and the
> *' is the currently operating resolution and refresh rate.
> 
> An example invocation. Which turns off all but my laptops primary 
> display. Note the missing '*' in the HDMI-2 resolution section.
> 
> xrandr --output eDP1 --auto --primary --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 
> --off --output HDMI-2 --off
> 
>   scott  ~  xrandr
> Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192 
> 
> eDP-1 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y
> axis) 256mm x 144mm
> 1920x1080 59.99*+ 
> 
> 1400x1050 59.98 
> 
> 1280x1024 60.02 
> 
> 1280x960  60.00 
> 
> 1024x768  60.0460.00 
> 
> 960x720   60.00 
> 
> 928x696   60.05 
> 
> 896x672   60.01 
> 
> 800x600   60.0060.3256.25 
> 
> 700x525   59.98 
> 
> 640x512   60.02 
> 
> 640x480   60.0059.94 
> 
> 512x384   60.00 
> 
> 400x300   60.3256.34 
> 
> 320x240   60.05
> HDMI-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
> HDMI-2 connected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
> 1920x1080 60.00 +  59.94
> 1680x1050 59.88
> 1400x1050 59.95
> 1600x900  60.00
> 1280x1024 75.0260.02
> 1440x900  59.90
> 1280x800  59.91
> 1152x864  75.00
> 1280x720  60.0059.94
> 1024x768  75.0360.00
> 800x600   75.0060.32
> 720x576   50.00
> 720x480   60.0059.94
> 640x480   75.0060.0059.94
> 720x400   70.08
> 
> 
> I'm not familiar with what GUI application LightDM to manipulate
> xrandr, but with 

Re: [GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[Dhaval Giani via talk]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 10:16 AM, Myles Braithwaite   wrote:
> Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:
>> However the government of Canada (in its infinite wisdom) has mandated
>> that to open and fill their forms, one use Adobe Reader. (As an
>> example see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0002E-2.pdf
>> ).
>>
>> Alternatives?
>
> Not sure if you tried this yet but Adobe released a version of Acrobat
> Reader for Linux in 2013 you can still download off their FTP server:
> .

Hi Myles,

I thought about it. But 4 yr old software, from a company that has a
history of security issues? :-). Not my first choice.

Thanks!
Dhaval
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Re: [GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[Myles Braithwaite  via talk]

Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:
> However the government of Canada (in its infinite wisdom) has mandated
> that to open and fill their forms, one use Adobe Reader. (As an
> example see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0002E-2.pdf
> ).
> 
> Alternatives?

Not sure if you tried this yet but Adobe released a version of Acrobat
Reader for Linux in 2013 you can still download off their FTP server:
.
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Re: [GTALUG] In Conversation

[Jason Shaw via talk]

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 11:23 PM, Scott Sullivan via talk 
wrote:

> Thanks to all those that came out to the GTALUG meeting, and the social
> afterwards. A couple of interesting items came up in conversation, so I
> wish to share the links more broadly.
>
> * Phones
>
> ** Librem 5
>
> https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
>
> Pursim, is a company offering laptops with the most comprehensive
> Free/Libre and Open Source for their hardware (their laptops ship
> CoreBoot). There now trying to do the same for a phone, and have
> successfully funded it's development. KDE and Gnome communities are on
> board for UI development.
>
>
As someone who has been interested in Free/Open Source mobile platforms
since I learned about the OpenMoko FreeRunner ( http://openmoko.org
although that appears down) ages ago, and used one for quite a while, It's
refreshing to see more people taking up the torch in the form of the Libre
M.  I've already backed it for a phone because it sounds ideal.

There's also the Neo900 ( https://neo900.org/ ), which has very low specs
compared to modern phones, but has been a long term pet project to
revive/reinvent the glory of the Nokia N900.

I'm currently awaiting Sailfish X's availability in Canada, so that I can
reflash that onto my Sony Xperia X, so that I can have an experience like
the Nokia N9 (imho the best smartphone ever made) running a more pure Linux.

Sad I missed the irl conversation about these devices.
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[Don Tai via talk]

small phone, big hands = bad
small phone, small hands = possible, though I make a lot of mistakes. I
really hate the autocorrect.
large phone, small hands = good
large phone, large hands = muddle through

You really cannot find a small phone anymore. I have a new Honda car and
the touch screen is not sensitive enough. These screens are a work in
progress.

Don

On 11 October 2017 at 09:34, Jason Shaw via talk  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 8:08 AM, o1bigtenor via talk 
> wrote:
>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Reading of the announcement of 2 new 'smart' phones at the meeting
>> prompts me to ask the question.
>>
>>
> What are the new phones?  I'm guessing they are the Libre M from Purism (
> https://puri.sm/ ) and possibly the Sony SailfishX in cooperation w/
> Jolla ( https://jolla.com/sailfishx/ ) but I'm always keen to hear of
> others.
>
> -jason
>
>
> ---
> Talk Mailing List
> talk@gtalug.org
> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
>
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[GTALUG] Adobe Reader Alternatives for Linux

[Dhaval Giani via talk]

Hi folks,

Yes, I am aware that there are many applications out there that can read pdfs.

However the government of Canada (in its infinite wisdom) has mandated
that to open and fill their forms, one use Adobe Reader. (As an
example see http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/citizen/CIT0002E-2.pdf
).

Alternatives?

Thanks!
Dhaval
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Re: [GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On 11/10/17 09:10 AM, ac via talk wrote:

Hi Evan :)

i did not bite as I am not that knowledgable on kde...  but as nobody
is saying anything maybe try:
mv /home/scott/.config /home/scott/oldconfig

let us know?


That's a very broad approach with the disadvantage of moving settings 
for a whole lot of unrelated applications.



Evan Leibovitch via talk  wrote:


What's stranger (to me) is that when logged out (running LightDM) the
system DOES recognize my mouse pointer going from one screen to the
next. So somewhere it IS being recognized as a separate screen, but
once I log in that goes away and I'm back to a mirroring situation..


xrandr is command line too for handling multi-monitor arrangements. 
Desktop implement UIs that talk to this functionality, and handle the 
'memory' of layouts. KDE's for example will remember transient moinitor 
configureations, like my two different laptop docks at home and work, 
and will restore the right layout for each, matching against the Vendor 
IDs of the monitors.


The X Rotation and Reflection extensions are how multi-monitor modes are 
handled. In current times, functionally X has one giant display buffer, 
and monitors are small cutouts of that, arranged relative to each other.


This is the output of my currently 'mirrored' two outputs.

scott  ~  xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192
eDP-1 connected primary 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis 
y axis) 256mm x 144mm

   1920x1080 59.99*+
   1400x1050 59.98
   1280x1024 60.02
   1280x960  60.00
   1024x768  60.0460.00
   960x720   60.00
   928x696   60.05
   896x672   60.01
   800x600   60.0060.3256.25
   700x525   59.98
   640x512   60.02
   640x480   60.0059.94
   512x384   60.00
   400x300   60.3256.34
   320x240   60.05
HDMI-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-2 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y 
axis) 477mm x 268mm

   1920x1080 60.00*+  59.94
   1680x1050 59.88
   1400x1050 59.95
   1600x900  60.00
   1280x1024 75.0260.02
   1440x900  59.90
   1280x800  59.91
   1152x864  75.00
   1280x720  60.0059.94
   1024x768  75.0360.00
   800x600   75.0060.32
   720x576   50.00
   720x480   60.0059.94
   640x480   75.0060.0059.94
   720x400   70.08


It shows the available outputs, and any that have monitor detected, will 
have their supported Resolutions and refresh rates shown. The '+' is the 
recommended resolution reported by the hardware, and the

*' is the currently operating resolution and refresh rate.

An example invocation. Which turns off all but my laptops primary 
display. Note the missing '*' in the HDMI-2 resolution section.


xrandr --output eDP1 --auto --primary --rotate normal --output HDMI-1 
--off --output HDMI-2 --off


 scott  ~  xrandr
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1920 x 1080, maximum 8192 x 8192 

eDP-1 connected 1920x1080+0+0 (normal left inverted right x axis y axis) 
256mm x 144mm
   1920x1080 59.99*+ 

   1400x1050 59.98 

   1280x1024 60.02 

   1280x960  60.00 

   1024x768  60.0460.00 

   960x720   60.00 

   928x696   60.05 

   896x672   60.01 

   800x600   60.0060.3256.25 

   700x525   59.98 

   640x512   60.02 

   640x480   60.0059.94 

   512x384   60.00 

   400x300   60.3256.34 


   320x240   60.05
HDMI-1 disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
HDMI-2 connected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
   1920x1080 60.00 +  59.94
   1680x1050 59.88
   1400x1050 59.95
   1600x900  60.00
   1280x1024 75.0260.02
   1440x900  59.90
   1280x800  59.91
   1152x864  75.00
   1280x720  60.0059.94
   1024x768  75.0360.00
   800x600   75.0060.32
   720x576   50.00
   720x480   60.0059.94
   640x480   75.0060.0059.94
   720x400   70.08


I'm not familiar with what GUI application LightDM to manipulate xrandr, 
but with some research you can figure that out, and set your preferred.


I had to do a lot of work with this stuff when I worked at the VFX 
studio. Let's just say there were some painful combinations of hardware, 
binary Nvidia drives and artists insisting on Vertical monitors.


--
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[Jason Shaw via talk]

>> What are the new phones?  I'm guessing they are the Libre M from Purism (
>> https://puri.sm/ ) and possibly the Sony SailfishX in cooperation w/
>> Jolla ( https://jolla.com/sailfishx/ ) but I'm always keen to hear of
>> others.
>>
>
> Announce is the wrong term, because it was idle conversation on the
> sidelines and at the social. But Dee is referencing my post with the
> subject "In Conversation".
>
> https://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/005364.html
>
> --
> Scott Sullivan
>
>
That'll teach me to read all my unread emails before responding :)  Thanks!
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[John Moniz via talk]

On Oct 11, 2017 8:40 AM, Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
I feel your pain
My big fat sausage like fingers make it nearly impossible for me
  to use the keyboard interface with less than a 50% error rate
  unless I have a phone with a 7" screen(I actually had one once).

There are multiple kinds of touch screens so possibly you need a
  phone with the appropriate kind of touch screen.
I believe that most phones currently use a capacitive touch
  technology which has issues with gloved hands or in your case
  calluses.
Another issue that current touch screens have is that they have
  no tactile feedback.
Lots of Blackberry users will attest to the ease of using the
  physical keyboard and I have heard a couple say that someone will
  have to pry it out of their cold dead hands.
Some research has been done on tactile feedback but it may be a
  long time before that kind of technology appears in your next
  phone.

Just bought the BlackBerry KeyOne, am putting it through some tests right now. My main wishes are for an easier time with the keyboard and better reception at the cottage. It's amazing how much better reception some phones have over others, but you only notice it in locations with sparse service.John.


On 10/11/2017 08:08 AM, o1bigtenor via
  talk wrote:


  Greetings


Reading of the announcement of 2 new 'smart' phones at the
  meeting prompts me to ask the question.


Am I the only person who finds that touch screens don't
  work worth a !@#$%^ using my fingers?


Thumb, index and third finger take repeated attempts to get
  a result where the fourth finger seems to work 'ok' its not
  very 'comfortable'. I do work with my hands, albeit not like I
  used to, so I do have calluses (they really aren't as thick as
  they have been at some times in the past though), - - -- is
  that 
possibly why I haven't been able to find a touch screen
  that 'works'. 


I haven't only tried one 'brand' of phone either. The
  iPhone is a little less problematic but not enough so to
  warrant any kind of purchase from me (that's without the
  absolutely stupid pricing levels). Have used LG, Samsung and
  Motorola and the issue is consistent.


At this point my opinion on touch screens is that they are
  over priced gadgets that I would rather not use.


Regards


Dee
  
  
  
  
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Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
al...@netvel.net  ||


  
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On 11/10/17 09:34 AM, Jason Shaw via talk wrote:



On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 8:08 AM, o1bigtenor via talk > wrote:


Greetings

Reading of the announcement of 2 new 'smart' phones at the meeting
prompts me to ask the question.


What are the new phones?  I'm guessing they are the Libre M from Purism 
( https://puri.sm/ ) and possibly the Sony SailfishX in cooperation w/ 
Jolla ( https://jolla.com/sailfishx/ ) but I'm always keen to hear of 
others.


Announce is the wrong term, because it was idle conversation on the 
sidelines and at the social. But Dee is referencing my post with the 
subject "In Conversation".


https://gtalug.org/pipermail/talk/2017-October/005364.html

--
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[Jason Shaw via talk]

On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 8:08 AM, o1bigtenor via talk 
wrote:

> Greetings
>
> Reading of the announcement of 2 new 'smart' phones at the meeting prompts
> me to ask the question.
>
>
What are the new phones?  I'm guessing they are the Libre M from Purism (
https://puri.sm/ ) and possibly the Sony SailfishX in cooperation w/ Jolla
( https://jolla.com/sailfishx/ ) but I'm always keen to hear of others.

-jason
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Re: [GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[ac via talk]

Hi Evan :)

i did not bite as I am not that knowledgable on kde...  but as nobody
is saying anything maybe try:
mv /home/scott/.config /home/scott/oldconfig  

let us know?

Andre


On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:05:00 -0400
Evan Leibovitch via talk  wrote:
> Hi there.
> 
> I tried sending a message the other day on this but it got no bites.
> But I'm a little desperate to figure out what's happening and I've
> never been good at configuring X.
> 
> Something broke on my system and the only thing I can pin it to is a
> recent upgrade in my Linux Mint setup that involved both new kernels
> and X servers.
> 
> What's happened is that my two video screen setup, once logged in,
> does not recognize the second screen as being a different screen, so
> they now just mirror each other when I could once have then side by
> side as one big horizontal screen.
> 
> What's stranger (to me) is that when logged out (running LightDM) the
> system DOES recognize my mouse pointer going from one screen to the
> next. So somewhere it IS being recognized as a separate screen, but
> once I log in that goes away and I'm back to a mirroring situation..
> 
> ​Any suggestions!​
> 

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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[ac via talk]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 08:51:00 -0400
Scott Sullivan via talk  wrote:
> On 11/10/17 08:31 AM, ac via talk wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 07:08:40 -0500
> > o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:  
> >> Am I the only person who finds that touch screens don't work worth
> >> a !@#$%^ using my fingers?
> > you are not alone. for some basic stuff they are fine, but, in
> > addition to your valuable observations, I frequently find that my
> > fingers are simply just too big and the effort required to operate
> > the various screens accurately, is simply too much...
> >  > interesting and relevant emojis here, of course so that more people
> > will understand my communications>
> > maybe the 2020's will be better after all the kids grow up (and
> > some of the present old people have shuffled off the mortal coil /
> > outran the other rats)  
> 
> I agree this is a problem in the North American market.
> In Korea, Samsung does seem to be paying attention to this issues 
> though. The Samsung Galaxy Folder 2, is a hybrid smartphone/flipphone 
> with full keys, and larger UI.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYC0gw7g1zA=4m5s
> 
ono. ono. please not yafp! :)
(yet another flip phone)

mind you, star trek is back... so i guess anything is possible...

what is needed is a much smaller device that fits snugly in my ear and
works with voice recognition - to make and receive calls.

this will be a "phone" - no camera no heart monitor no vibrator, no bullshit.

then, this may connect to my desktop/notebook/laptop (or not) - may
connect to my actual camera (for comms of pics)

the days of trying to fit absolutely anything (as well as a toilet)
into one thing that goes in a pocket - is quickly moving to FAIL

some models, like apple - are getting LARGER all the time...
the apple 8 is larger than 6 inches by 3 inches already... 
(apple 4 used to be 20% smaller... at 4.5 inches by 2.3 inches)

other brands are worse... the world even had to come up with a new name
for the super sized phones (pads)

Andre



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[GTALUG] Kernel and/or X upgrade broke my video setup

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

Hi there.

I tried sending a message the other day on this but it got no bites. But
I'm a little desperate to figure out what's happening and I've never been
good at configuring X.

Something broke on my system and the only thing I can pin it to is a recent
upgrade in my Linux Mint setup that involved both new kernels and X servers.

What's happened is that my two video screen setup, once logged in, does not
recognize the second screen as being a different screen, so they now just
mirror each other when I could once have then side by side as one big
horizontal screen.

What's stranger (to me) is that when logged out (running LightDM) the
system DOES recognize my mouse pointer going from one screen to the next.
So somewhere it IS being recognized as a separate screen, but once I log in
that goes away and I'm back to a mirroring situation..

​Any suggestions!​

-- 
Evan Leibovitch
Toronto, Canada

Em: evan at telly dot org
Sk: evanleibovitch
Tw: el56
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[Scott Sullivan via talk]

On 11/10/17 08:31 AM, ac via talk wrote:

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 07:08:40 -0500
o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:

Am I the only person who finds that touch screens don't work worth
a !@#$%^ using my fingers?



you are not alone. for some basic stuff they are fine, but, in addition to
your valuable observations, I frequently find that my fingers are simply
just too big and the effort required to operate the various screens
accurately, is simply too much...



maybe the 2020's will be better after all the kids grow up (and some of
the present old people have shuffled off the mortal coil / outran the
other rats)


I agree this is a problem in the North American market.

In Korea, Samsung does seem to be paying attention to this issues 
though. The Samsung Galaxy Folder 2, is a hybrid smartphone/flipphone 
with full keys, and larger UI.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYC0gw7g1zA=4m5s

--
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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[Alvin Starr via talk]

I feel your pain

My big fat sausage like fingers make it nearly impossible for me to use 
the keyboard interface with less than a 50% error rate unless I have a 
phone with a 7" screen(I actually had one once).


There are multiple kinds of touch screens so possibly you need a phone 
with the appropriate kind of touch screen.


I believe that most phones currently use a capacitive touch technology 
which has issues with gloved hands or in your case calluses.


Another issue that current touch screens have is that they have no 
tactile feedback.


Lots of Blackberry users will attest to the ease of using the physical 
keyboard and I have heard a couple say that someone will have to pry it 
out of their cold dead hands.


Some research has been done on tactile feedback but it may be a long 
time before that kind of technology appears in your next phone.





On 10/11/2017 08:08 AM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:

Greetings

Reading of the announcement of 2 new 'smart' phones at the meeting 
prompts me to ask the question.


Am I the only person who finds that touch screens don't work worth a 
!@#$%^ using my fingers?


Thumb, index and third finger take repeated attempts to get a result 
where the fourth finger seems to work 'ok' its not very 'comfortable'. 
I do work with my hands, albeit not like I used to, so I do have 
calluses (they really aren't as thick as they have been at some times 
in the past though), - - -- is that

possibly why I haven't been able to find a touch screen that 'works'.

I haven't only tried one 'brand' of phone either. The iPhone is a 
little less problematic but not enough so to warrant any kind of 
purchase from me (that's without the absolutely stupid pricing 
levels). Have used LG, Samsung and Motorola and the issue is consistent.


At this point my opinion on touch screens is that they are over priced 
gadgets that I would rather not use.


Regards

Dee


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Re: [GTALUG] touch screens

[ac via talk]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 07:08:40 -0500
o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> Am I the only person who finds that touch screens don't work worth
> a !@#$%^ using my fingers?
> 

you are not alone. for some basic stuff they are fine, but, in addition to 
your valuable observations, I frequently find that my fingers are simply 
just too big and the effort required to operate the various screens 
accurately, is simply too much...



maybe the 2020's will be better after all the kids grow up (and some of
the present old people have shuffled off the mortal coil / outran the
other rats) 

Andre
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[GTALUG] touch screens

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

Reading of the announcement of 2 new 'smart' phones at the meeting prompts
me to ask the question.

Am I the only person who finds that touch screens don't work worth a !@#$%^
using my fingers?

Thumb, index and third finger take repeated attempts to get a result where
the fourth finger seems to work 'ok' its not very 'comfortable'. I do work
with my hands, albeit not like I used to, so I do have calluses (they
really aren't as thick as they have been at some times in the past though),
- - -- is that
possibly why I haven't been able to find a touch screen that 'works'.

I haven't only tried one 'brand' of phone either. The iPhone is a little
less problematic but not enough so to warrant any kind of purchase from me
(that's without the absolutely stupid pricing levels). Have used LG,
Samsung and Motorola and the issue is consistent.

At this point my opinion on touch screens is that they are over priced
gadgets that I would rather not use.

Regards

Dee
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