Re: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

[via Talk]

That would be wonderful!  And let's add to that:  the box could be hooked up 
to anything that had a screen that needed to be read, provided that there 
was an appropriate connection.  Pam.


-Original Message- 
From: David via Talk

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 6:14 PM
To: Dave ; Window-Eyes Discussion List ; Kevin Minor
Subject: Re: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

Well, would be a great thing for the VFO team, to get their resources
together and make such a thing possible. Let's get a box that you
connect to the external display connector on the back of your computer.
Let the box have something like 4, or even 8 GB of RAM, enough to hold
your screen reader, all apps and settings, and if necessary a secondary
screen reader. Let the box have a USB connectorr, for updating the
onboard software, when new releases come out.


Now, feed the box with all the info from the screen directly, and let it
process that info. Gone would be all the internal conflicts with
Windows, Office or any other software not leaving the screen reader
access to the screen content. The box would basically just be operating
like an OCR of the screen content, at any given moment. All controlling
could either be done by dedicated keys on the box, or you could (first
the OS is loaded), let the user control it by keystrokes on the
keyboard, which would be send to it either wirelessly, or through an USB
cable.


You now could operate the Bios, fool around with cheap alternatives to
Office, like modern versions of WordPerfect (which many of us old-timers
enjoyed). Or, you could finally go free, and install things like
OpenOffice. Should you, for whatever reason want to go for any other OS
than Windows, you just run Linux or whatever. Since the box would
interpret signals sent to the display, it would no longer depend on one
OS in particular.


OH, WELL! Still dreams of tomorrow are permitted, ain't they? Trouble
is, if they invented such a unit, they would have done something really
great. And that is not going to happen, my guess goes.


I do know, that at least one of the German Braille displays, back in the
late 80's/early 90's - the Braillo display - had a board inserted into
the computer, and would be up running even at BIOS level, long before
anything booted. Used  to have that one, numerous years ago, and was
able to set up computers from scratch for my customers. Then came all
the laptops, with no wa of installing such an extension board, and gone
was the whole idea. Today, with fast processors, well-established OCR
technology, and cheap memory - a Screen Connector-based box, should be
possible for the dreamers. And maybe would have boosted the market for
the screen reader industry.


y

David

On 10/25/2016 11:14 PM, Dave via Talk wrote:

Hi Kevin,

So there was a way to get to the BIOS.Since my first PC back in the
mid 80's I've wanted to be able to get in there to make changes.  Still
would in fact.

Would be very nice to Update, Fix, and Repair my own Hardware, all with
Speech.


Grumpy Dave




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WE not reading some lines

[Don H via Talk]

Running Latest version of WE on a Win 10 system.
Using both IE and Firefox when I go to my banking web site WE will not 
read any lines of text on the web page that are red in color.  Is this a 
issue I can resolve within WE?


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RE: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

[Chris Grabowski via Talk]

I had a Packard bell 486 you could press control-alt-s and get into the system 
bios after the computer was in dos and go through it with speech.
Chris


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of Dave via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 5:15 PM
To: Kevin Minor ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 

Subject: Re: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

Hi Kevin,

So there was a way to get to the BIOS.Since my first PC back in the
mid 80's I've wanted to be able to get in there to make changes.  Still would 
in fact.  

Would be very nice to Update, Fix, and Repair my own Hardware, all with Speech.


Grumpy Dave


--
Dave 

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RE: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

[Chris Grabowski via Talk]

That Braille display was a KTS BrailleOterm.
I had one of those too.
When I got a 486 and inserted the card, the Braille display said "graphics 
mode."
At that point the card was useless and the display could only be used by serial 
port with its included software.
Not many Windows based screen readers supported that display.  I think an early 
version of JAWS and  Hal, Dolphins now "screen reader" as well.

I ended up sending that display to Doug many moons ago.  I'm sure he remembers 
it well.

Chris


-Original Message-
From: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+cgrabowski=aisquared@lists.window-eyes.com] 
On Behalf Of David via Talk
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 6:14 PM
To: Dave ; Window-Eyes Discussion List 
; Kevin Minor 
Subject: Re: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

Well, would be a great thing for the VFO team, to get their resources together 
and make such a thing possible. Let's get a box that you connect to the 
external display connector on the back of your computer. 
Let the box have something like 4, or even 8 GB of RAM, enough to hold your 
screen reader, all apps and settings, and if necessary a secondary screen 
reader. Let the box have a USB connectorr, for updating the onboard software, 
when new releases come out.


Now, feed the box with all the info from the screen directly, and let it 
process that info. Gone would be all the internal conflicts with Windows, 
Office or any other software not leaving the screen reader access to the screen 
content. The box would basically just be operating like an OCR of the screen 
content, at any given moment. All controlling could either be done by dedicated 
keys on the box, or you could (first the OS is loaded), let the user control it 
by keystrokes on the keyboard, which would be send to it either wirelessly, or 
through an USB cable.


You now could operate the Bios, fool around with cheap alternatives to Office, 
like modern versions of WordPerfect (which many of us old-timers enjoyed). Or, 
you could finally go free, and install things like OpenOffice. Should you, for 
whatever reason want to go for any other OS than Windows, you just run Linux or 
whatever. Since the box would interpret signals sent to the display, it would 
no longer depend on one OS in particular.


OH, WELL! Still dreams of tomorrow are permitted, ain't they? Trouble is, if 
they invented such a unit, they would have done something really great. And 
that is not going to happen, my guess goes.


I do know, that at least one of the German Braille displays, back in the late 
80's/early 90's - the Braillo display - had a board inserted into the computer, 
and would be up running even at BIOS level, long before anything booted. Used  
to have that one, numerous years ago, and was able to set up computers from 
scratch for my customers. Then came all the laptops, with no wa of installing 
such an extension board, and gone was the whole idea. Today, with fast 
processors, well-established OCR technology, and cheap memory - a Screen 
Connector-based box, should be possible for the dreamers. And maybe would have 
boosted the market for the screen reader industry.


y

David

On 10/25/2016 11:14 PM, Dave via Talk wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> So there was a way to get to the BIOS.Since my first PC back in the
> mid 80's I've wanted to be able to get in there to make changes.  
> Still would in fact.
>
> Would be very nice to Update, Fix, and Repair my own Hardware, all 
> with Speech.
>
>
> Grumpy Dave
>
>

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Re: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

[David via Talk]

Well, would be a great thing for the VFO team, to get their resources 
together and make such a thing possible. Let's get a box that you 
connect to the external display connector on the back of your computer. 
Let the box have something like 4, or even 8 GB of RAM, enough to hold 
your screen reader, all apps and settings, and if necessary a secondary 
screen reader. Let the box have a USB connectorr, for updating the 
onboard software, when new releases come out.


Now, feed the box with all the info from the screen directly, and let it 
process that info. Gone would be all the internal conflicts with 
Windows, Office or any other software not leaving the screen reader 
access to the screen content. The box would basically just be operating 
like an OCR of the screen content, at any given moment. All controlling 
could either be done by dedicated keys on the box, or you could (first 
the OS is loaded), let the user control it by keystrokes on the 
keyboard, which would be send to it either wirelessly, or through an USB 
cable.


You now could operate the Bios, fool around with cheap alternatives to 
Office, like modern versions of WordPerfect (which many of us old-timers 
enjoyed). Or, you could finally go free, and install things like 
OpenOffice. Should you, for whatever reason want to go for any other OS 
than Windows, you just run Linux or whatever. Since the box would 
interpret signals sent to the display, it would no longer depend on one 
OS in particular.


OH, WELL! Still dreams of tomorrow are permitted, ain't they? Trouble 
is, if they invented such a unit, they would have done something really 
great. And that is not going to happen, my guess goes.


I do know, that at least one of the German Braille displays, back in the 
late 80's/early 90's - the Braillo display - had a board inserted into 
the computer, and would be up running even at BIOS level, long before 
anything booted. Used  to have that one, numerous years ago, and was 
able to set up computers from scratch for my customers. Then came all 
the laptops, with no wa of installing such an extension board, and gone 
was the whole idea. Today, with fast processors, well-established OCR 
technology, and cheap memory - a Screen Connector-based box, should be 
possible for the dreamers. And maybe would have boosted the market for 
the screen reader industry.


y

David

On 10/25/2016 11:14 PM, Dave via Talk wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> So there was a way to get to the BIOS.Since my first PC back in the
> mid 80's I've wanted to be able to get in there to make changes.  Still
> would in fact.
>
> Would be very nice to Update, Fix, and Repair my own Hardware, all with
> Speech.
>
>
> Grumpy Dave
>
>

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Re: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

[Dave via Talk]

Hi Kevin,

So there was a way to get to the BIOS.Since my first PC back in the
mid 80's I've wanted to be able to get in there to make changes.  Still
would in fact.  

Would be very nice to Update, Fix, and Repair my own Hardware, all with
Speech.


Grumpy Dave


-- 
Dave 

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RE: Reminiscing about old Screen Readers and Synthesizers

[Kevin Minor via Talk]

Hi.

I know I'm late in this thread, but I'd like to add my own experience with 
screen readers.

My first computer with speech was an Apple II E with the Echo II board and 
software from Street Electronics.  I got that for my graduation from high 
school.  I remember the speech package costing $150, which was a steal in 1984. 
 It didn't read everything, but it did all right for what I used it for.

I got my first PC in October of 1986.  I didn't have speech for it for two 
years, so I had to use the little vision that I had to use it.  In the fall of 
1988, I got a speech package that I haven't heard anybody mention.  It was the 
Speaqualizer from APH.  What made this package unique was it didn't rely on a 
program loaded from the PC's disk drive.  It was totally hardware based.  It 
had a board that was placed in the PC, and a box that controlled it was 
connected to the board.  What was really nice about this synthesizer was it 
worked right when you turned on the PC.  In 1990 I got an 80/386, and I updated 
the Speaqualizer to work with this PC.  Since it wasn't software based and 
worked before the PC booted, I was able to access and change settings in the 
BIOS.  The speech wasn't the best, but it served me well for ten years.  Now I 
use software speech, so I can't delve into the system before it's up and 
running.

Just thought I'd share my experiences.

Have a blessed day and don't work too hard.
Kevin Minor, Lexington, KY
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WG: Windows Mail app

[Luciano Ortelli via Talk]

Hi again,

The first part of the link is sufficient. I apologize.

Luciano


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+lortelli=bluewin...@lists.window-eyes.com] Im
Auftrag von Luciano Ortelli via Talk
Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Oktober 2016 20:22
An: 'Neville' ; 'Window-Eyes Discussion List'

Betreff: AW: Windows Mail app

Hi Sandra and all,

About Windows Mail app I have just found the following link:

https://win10.groups.io/g/win10/thread/uwa_bulletin_mail_app_can/2196671?p=,
,,20,0,0,0::RecentPostDate%2FSticky,,,20,2,0,2196671

You must copy the entire link for reading everything.

Kind regards from Switzerland,

Luciano


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+lortelli=bluewin...@lists.window-eyes.com] Im
Auftrag von Neville via Talk
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Oktober 2016 03:14
An: Rod Hutton ; Window-Eyes Discussion List

Betreff: Re: Printing Envelopes

Hi,

The method I use for printing an envelope is quite simple and works like a
charm once it is set up.  However, a pair of eyes is required at the start
to position the address correctly.

Save a blank page in Word and call it something like, business
envelope.docx. If you have a used envelope of the size you wish to use, then
the sited person can measure the top and left margins so similar margins can
be set in the blank document.

Insert an address and print it on to the size envelope you wish to use. 
You'll probably have to adjust the top and left margins a few times until
you get it right. Make sure you save the document with the altered margins
regularly.

To use,
1. just select and copy the required address from your document,

2. open a new document and load the file with the altered margins.

3. paste the address into the document and print.

A different document could be set up for each envelope size you wish to use.

Of course, this can be streamlined considerably if you can reccord a macro
to do all the hard work.

A macro I wrote quite some time ago does the following once the cursor is
placed on the first line of the address to be used:

Moves the cursor to the left, selects the lines of the address and copies
them to the clipboard, opens a new document, loads the altered blank file,
pastes the address and changes the text to upper case.

I have found that each time the printer is changed, the margins need to be
reset.

HTH
  Neville.
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AW: Windows Mail app

[Luciano Ortelli via Talk]

Hi Sandra and all,

About Windows Mail app I have just found the following link:

https://win10.groups.io/g/win10/thread/uwa_bulletin_mail_app_can/2196671?p=,
,,20,0,0,0::RecentPostDate%2FSticky,,,20,2,0,2196671

You must copy the entire link for reading everything.

Kind regards from Switzerland,

Luciano


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Talk [mailto:talk-bounces+lortelli=bluewin...@lists.window-eyes.com] Im
Auftrag von Neville via Talk
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Oktober 2016 03:14
An: Rod Hutton ; Window-Eyes Discussion List

Betreff: Re: Printing Envelopes

Hi,

The method I use for printing an envelope is quite simple and works like a
charm once it is set up.  However, a pair of eyes is required at the start
to position the address correctly.

Save a blank page in Word and call it something like, business
envelope.docx. If you have a used envelope of the size you wish to use, then
the sited person can measure the top and left margins so similar margins can
be set in the blank document.

Insert an address and print it on to the size envelope you wish to use. 
You'll probably have to adjust the top and left margins a few times until
you get it right. Make sure you save the document with the altered margins
regularly.

To use,
1. just select and copy the required address from your document,

2. open a new document and load the file with the altered margins.

3. paste the address into the document and print.

A different document could be set up for each envelope size you wish to use.

Of course, this can be streamlined considerably if you can reccord a macro
to do all the hard work.

A macro I wrote quite some time ago does the following once the cursor is
placed on the first line of the address to be used:

Moves the cursor to the left, selects the lines of the address and copies
them to the clipboard, opens a new document, loads the altered blank file,
pastes the address and changes the text to upper case.

I have found that each time the printer is changed, the margins need to be
reset.

HTH
  Neville.
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Mail app in Windows 10

[Whizza via Talk]

Hi everyone,
Was just wondering if anyone had any tips and tricks for setting up the mail 
app in Windows 10 to make it easily accessible for a screen reader.  I'm 
using Windows Live mail at the moment but can't say I like it all that much. 
Are there views I have to turn off and so on so that the messages are just 
in a simple list so I can read them.
This is on a machine using Windows 10 64 bit home edition and the latest 
version of Window-Eyes.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Cheers,
Sandra. 


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Re: Need some lap top advice

[David via Talk]

I did read through the specs given on the page you linked, and it looks 
like a nice little unit.


The fact that it has an SSD, will ensure you get fast loading of your 
software, and fast storing of your data. As such, it to a certain degree 
weighs up for the somehow low-speed CPU, and with 4GB RAM, I am able to 
perform my computing as an advanced user on a daily basis. So unless you 
are performing really heavy activity on your computer, I would say these 
specs meet the average user requirements quite well.


This is a business-class model, which means it will have been designed 
and manufactured with durability in mind. This is a clear-cut plus, and 
would ensure you do not get som flimpsy cheap home computer, which are 
known to break or get frustratingly broublesome over a bit of usage 
time. Business models are made to be used, and likely you will find it 
up running sturdily for several years. Once you get your hands on a 
business model, you will feel the difference, compared to the cheap home 
user stuff.


The specs in general are good enough. If the model offers you the change 
to upgrade to more than 4GB RAM, it will not hurt to do so at a later 
state. Yet, both the OS and the screen reader, should have no trouble 
with the 4GB. The 1.8GHZ CPU could have been faster, but then again it 
is one of the newer models, so likely it will not be much for a 
difference for the average user. And the SSD with its fast loading, 
often is a bettter upgrade than both the RAM and CPU, since more than 
you realize out of your computing day, is being used in disk accessing. 
I for one, really don't see this as a bad deal, unless you happen to 
have extra-ordinary requirements in your usage of a computer.


Sometime down the road, if you are often running the computer off the 
battery, you might want to get hold of a battery with more than 3 Cells. 
A 6-cell battery, will keep you running for close to twice a long time, 
but likely will make your computer slightly heavier, and thicker in the 
battery-end. Batteries might be picked up from netshops, or you might 
want to contact Dell. Even the shop selling this computer, might have 
some batteries available for sale, and maybe that would turn out not too 
expensive if you have them change to a higher capacity battery right 
away, before shipping.



What I did not seem to find for specs in the linked page, would be how 
many USB ports it has, and to what extend it has a memory-card slot. You 
might want to look up these from the net in general, by entering a 
search term like this, into your search engine:

 Dell Lattitude 6430U Specs.


You ask how to get Win-Eyes on to the computer, since it seems not to 
have any CD-drive. The easiest answer would be to use a USB pen-drive. 
The whole screen reader takes less than 1GB, so any USB drive now aday 
will have no trouble in holding it. Either copy the disk on to the USB 
drive yourself, or have a friend help you with the copying. Start up 
your new computer, and connect the USB drive, and then choose the 
Setup.exe file on the drive. Rest is history, since it will perform just 
as when you go from a CD; only ten times faster.


Alternatively, you contact the staff at AISquared, and they can provide 
you with a downloadable of your screenreader disk. You download the 
file, which is a zip, open it and run the Setup.exe file - and things 
again will happen as if you had run it off from a CD.


Hope any of this helped you out, and that you will enjoy your new computer.



David

On 10/24/2016 3:44 PM, Shannon via Talk wrote:
> Good morning all, 
> 'I could use some help.
> I need/want a lap top.
> I have an opportunity to get one of these, only a re-ferb model, Dell
> Latitude Intel Core i5 4GB 128GB SSD 14" LED Ultrabook (6430U)
>
> I really have no idea what all that stuff means. Is it any good? I pasted a
> link below that has the specs.
> I do know that it is not going to have a dedicated number pad so...
> Anyone have any idea which external Key pads are compatible with WE so I can
> use the mouse functions?
>
> Or even better a suggestion  for an external keyboard that will feel more
> like a desktop layout? Are there any that would be more or less portable
> with the whole laptop idea in mind
> And
> It doesn't appear to have a CD rom so How do I get WE onto it?
>
>
> Thanks for any advice. I have looked through the Amazon list of keyboards
> and I am stumped so pointers are greatly appreciated.
> Shannon
> https://m.newegg.com/Product/index?itemnumber=9SIA0AJ14J8835_re=6430u-_-3
> 4-200-813-_-Product
>
>
>
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> 

Re: laptop advice

[David via Talk]

Do we want to keep this all true?


Don't know from where you have your info, but I am writing this on a 
Dell laptop, which I have upgraded with non-Dell parts. Exactly what is 
it you mean cannot be replaced with non-Dell parts?


If you think of the mainboard, built-in keyboard, or the screen of the 
laptop, true enough. These parts are manufactured to fit inside that 
particular model's chasy. But in all honest meaning, so is any other 
laptop on the market. You could not take a Dell mainboard and put it 
inside an HP laptop, or take a Linova mainboard and insert into a Dell 
laptop. If you are talking Desktop computers, this kind of manufactural 
interchange might, or might not work, depending on the design and shape 
of the actual unit.


Point here is, that buying a laptop -from ANY manufacturer - you will 
have to stick to the original main parts. So, nothing special here, 
about Dell.


Comes to the internal periphals, like the harddisk, CD-drive, Memory 
(Ram), it all can be replaced with other manufacturers' product. Even 
some of it can be replaced with non-branded material. And, when comes to 
the real periphal equipment, like the power supply, an external 
keyboard, external CD/DVD-drive etc, you simply do not need to bother, 
as much of this is non-branded anyway. Additionally, as pointed out from 
another user already, manufacturers now aday do not produce all their 
parts themselves. The CPU, for instance, is manufactured either by AMD, 
or Intel - and hence does not have anything in particular to do with the 
brand name on the outside of the computer. Buy a Dell, An HP, a Linovo, 
or any other laptop - and you likely will see that much of the 
electronic pieces inside, are the exact same. What differs, is the 
actual physical appearance of the unit, slight variations in combination 
and setup of the components, and the brand name printed on the unit.


By the way, my laptop is running on a non-branded power-supply, has a 
non-Dell SSD upgrade, and when I needed to replace the fan, I got some 
cheap and yet nice quiet fan off from EBay. And here is the other main 
point to hook on to in this thread.


Since the initial user told us it is a refurbished model - if memory 
serves me right - you would not be under much of warranty clauses. 
Meaning, that if your computer needs an upgrade or fix, you should 
easily be able to pick up things from netshops, like EBay. Even fully 
original Dell parts, would be available for a fair enough price. How 
much work would be involved in replacing parts, would depend on the 
design of the laptop. Mine is very easily opened and service friendly, 
but have seen models that requires you to split the whole unit. Yet, I 
do not see this to be the immediate issue, the way the query was set out 
from the beginning. The user wants to buy a fully working and serviced 
machine, so likely won't need to bother any of the techie stuff anyway.




David

On 10/25/2016 3:20 AM, Linette Sukup via Talk wrote:
>
>
> This sounds like a nice little machine, but there's one problematic 
> thing about Dells: if you want to add on any hardware, or something 
> needs to be fixed, you can only use something from Dell. If that's not 
> important to you, just disregard. (Grin.)
>
> Peace.
> Linette
>
>
>
> On 10/24/2016 8:12 PM, Josh Kennedy via Talk wrote:
>> ok let me break all this down for you. beside each thing i will write
>> good or bad.
>>
>> I have an opportunity to get one of these, only a re-ferb model,
>>
>>
>> Dell Latitude good brand
>>
>> Intel Core i5 that is a fast processor for graphics intensive pc games
>> like grand theft auto five.
>>
>> 4GB 4gb of ram is very good.
>>
>> 128GB SSD ok the 128gb ssd means your pc will start up very very very
>> fast all the time and shut off very very fast and load everything very
>> very fast just like a braille note note taker does.
>>
>> 14" LED Ultrabook (6430U) that means it is a small and light weight 
>> laptop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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