Re: [OSM-talk] Offline Dump of the Wiki
Hi! in case I do a wget of the wiki (of course excluding history and stuff) --- I would provide it as a zip archive for download... Alex Rob wrote: > even better, how can we mirror the wiki and have lightning fast local mirrors > ;) > > 2009/11/16 Alexander Menk > : >> Hi! >> >> how can I get a offline version of the wiki? >> >> Alexander >> >> ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On Tuesday 17 November 2009 02:03:22 Russ Nelson wrote: > > > We have a public domain > > > map which we could start with. > > > > If all you're aiming for is a slightly better version of TIGER, then > > it was worth starting with TIGER and that's pretty much all you'll > > get. Oh, look, that's what happened. > > Oh, look, we have 99% of all roads in the US in OSM. Can you say that > about any other country besides the exceptional Germany and the (dare > I say it) imported Netherlands? Well in the Netherlands the AND import surely killed off most mapping activity. When the import happened there was no usable aerial imaging available. So fixing all those crooked urban streets that were really straight was a problem. Even now only about a quarter of the country has usable aerial imaging available. Fixing the non-road data from the import (forests and water) which was really low quality data is completely impossible without aerial imaging. The most read comment after the import was: But now the map is finished. This resulted in two years of mostly stagnation. (Except for some isolated spots.) It's now 2 years after the import and cycleways and pedestrian ways are still completely missing in most of the country. I've been busy with fixing AND data around were I live and did some mapping of empty pieces of Belgium along along the Dutch-Belgian border. Mapping in a blank area was for sure easier and more productive than fixing the AND mess. I can say with certainty that if the import hadn't happend I would have mapped more of the city I live in, than I have corrected now. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM at FOSDEM 2010
Are there any plans to have OpenStreetMap present at FOSDEM 2010 (in February)? - http://www.fosdem.org/2010/ I know that MediaWiki developers would like to have a developer room, but it usually works best to make the broaden the scope and partner with other projects in requesting a developer room. I am involved with both MediaWiki development and OSM and think it could work to combine a proposal for a developer room at FOSDEM. Is there interest among OSM to do this? Who is interested in attending? participating? -Kate ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] why does mapnik not display my circles?
On Tuesday 17 Nov 2009 6:50:16 am Frederik Ramm wrote: > > all that is done, there is a food column and there are returns as to > > 'select where food is nveg' > > Then maybe you really want to play with what Richard Mann hinted at - > perhaps your circles are overlapping other stuff and that's why Mapnik > chooses to omit them (easy to test it - put a node tagged food=nveg > somewhere in the desert!). already did that - soon as I get the updated data I will check if it works - only do not blame me if you look for sausage there and and find nothing ;-) > > Maybe you even have a problem where the circle conflicts with the > restaurant/shop icon itself, then it might never get drawn at all. > > If that's the problem, there are three things you can do - > > 1. change the order in which things are drawn (circles first, then rest > of map?) > > 2. use "allow_overlap='yes'" in your tag. Not all > Symbolizers have it I believe but PointSymbolizer definitely has it. > > 3. use the "clear_label_cache='on'" attribute in your tag. This > will clear the collision boxes for text (and possibly icons - try it > out) and start as if the map was empty (so it also affects later layers). > > One of these is bound to work ;-) > will try all these out and revert - thanks for the tips -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On Monday 16 Nov 2009 5:46:49 pm Andy Allan wrote: > > There are still quite a few squeaky wheels that > > like to grumble about TIGER, but I haven't heard a single person say > > that it did more harm than good. > > It did more harm than good. > same thing happened for the import of AND data in Mumbai India (although the rest of India is ok), so I for one can understand what you are saying -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] why does mapnik not display my circles?
Hi, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > all that is done, there is a food column and there are returns as to 'select > where food is nveg' Then maybe you really want to play with what Richard Mann hinted at - perhaps your circles are overlapping other stuff and that's why Mapnik chooses to omit them (easy to test it - put a node tagged food=nveg somewhere in the desert!). Maybe you even have a problem where the circle conflicts with the restaurant/shop icon itself, then it might never get drawn at all. If that's the problem, there are three things you can do - 1. change the order in which things are drawn (circles first, then rest of map?) 2. use "allow_overlap='yes'" in your tag. Not all Symbolizers have it I believe but PointSymbolizer definitely has it. 3. use the "clear_label_cache='on'" attribute in your tag. This will clear the collision boxes for text (and possibly icons - try it out) and start as if the map was empty (so it also affects later layers). One of these is bound to work ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
Andy Allan writes: > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Russ Nelson wrote: > > should I waste my time, as you folks in the UK have **been forced** to > > waste your time reinventing an existing map? > > Sorry, which map have we reinvented? If OSM is better than OS, then you've reinvented it -- but that work was only necessary because your country doesn't put its map into the public domain. If it had, then you would have started with it, and would now be arguing with the governments of X, Y, and Z that they should put their map data into the public domain. > > We have a public domain > > map which we could start with. > > If all you're aiming for is a slightly better version of TIGER, then > it was worth starting with TIGER and that's pretty much all you'll > get. Oh, look, that's what happened. Oh, look, we have 99% of all roads in the US in OSM. Can you say that about any other country besides the exceptional Germany and the (dare I say it) imported Netherlands? > > Don't try to cast your impediment as an advantage. It wasn't, and our > > advantage (sensible government policy) isn't an impediment. > > So let me get this straight, your public domain road shapefiles have > been an advantage? And therefore OSM is better in the US than in > Germany? Andy, what you said does not follow logically. "impediment" and "advantage" refer to an amount of work, not quality. It was easier to get to where we are now, than it was for Germany to get to an equivalent state (which was probably three years ago). Germany has a three year head start. Naturally that's reflected in the quality of OSM: much better in Germany than the US. > Geez, we're all sure hurting from a lack of imports over here. I > don't think you've really understood just *how* far behind you are > (precisely because of this "advantage", imo) and how much slower > things are progressing on your side of the Atlantic. I don't think you understand how far we've come with so few people and so little effort. > So please, turn away from imports and work on getting mappers in > charge, especially out pounding the streets. The outcome will be much, > much better in the end, and that end will come much, much quicker. What's the rush? -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Offline Dump of the Wiki
even better, how can we mirror the wiki and have lightning fast local mirrors ;) 2009/11/16 Alexander Menk : > Hi! > > how can I get a offline version of the wiki? > > Alexander > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] does one need to download the planet to use osmosis
>> wget http://planet.openstreetmap.org/planet-latest.osm.bz2 -O - | >> bzcat >>osmosis --read-xml "/dev/stdin" --bounding-box top=49.5138 >>left=10.9351 bottom=49.3866 right=11.201 --write-xml "extract.xml" > > Isn't this bbox only a few times larger then what the API will download > in a single call? The bbox is just a sample from the osmisis wiki page. I just wanted to outline the process of working with the streaming download. You can add any command to the pipe, e.g. a sax-parser in php: wget http://planet.openstreetmap.org/planet-latest.osm.bz2 -O - -q | \ bzcat | php parser.php > data.csv where parser.php creates a sax-parser reading from STDIN. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 15:05 +, Andy Allan wrote: > So please, turn away from imports and work on getting mappers in > charge, especially out pounding the streets. The outcome will be much, > much better in the end, and that end will come much, much quicker. I think TIGER was a success if only because of all the Europeans we tricked into fixing our roads for us. :) -- Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On 16 Nov 2009, at 7:05 , Andy Allan wrote: > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Russ Nelson wrote: >> Andy Allan writes: >> > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: >> > >> > > There are still quite a few squeaky wheels that >> > > like to grumble about TIGER, but I haven't heard a single person say >> > > that it did more harm than good. >> > >> > It did more harm than good. >> >> No, it didn't. I didn't start mapping until TIGER was imported. Why? >> Because I knew that a lot of the work had already been done. Why >> should I waste my time, as you folks in the UK have **been forced** to >> waste your time reinventing an existing map? > > Sorry, which map have we reinvented? I'd love to know which map has an > accurate pedestrian routing network that is collected as such and not > a derived interpretation of other base maps. Or maybe you think OSM is > just a road network with some POIs? Or are you again thinking that the > work we've done in OSM is actually inferior to the work available from > the Ordnance Survey? > >> We have a public domain >> map which we could start with. > > If all you're aiming for is a slightly better version of TIGER, then > it was worth starting with TIGER and that's pretty much all you'll > get. Oh, look, that's what happened. > Absolutely, "me to" approach. And why have all the hassle with community, vandalism … every GIS expert can build a DB with Tiger data. If we don't see osm as a social and community project with a dynamic entirely different from traditional GIS i't a wast of time. compare US with Europe and you will cry, compare it with some places in Africa, India Asia … where people can barely afford GPS and Computers it's a shame how bad the US map is. >> Don't try to cast your impediment as an advantage. It wasn't, and our >> advantage (sensible government policy) isn't an impediment. > > So let me get this straight, your public domain road shapefiles have > been an advantage? And therefore OSM is better in the US than in > Germany? Geez, we're all sure hurting from a lack of imports over > here. I don't think you've really understood just *how* far behind you > are (precisely because of this "advantage", imo) and how much slower > things are progressing on your side of the Atlantic. > > So please, turn away from imports and work on getting mappers in > charge, especially out pounding the streets. The outcome will be much, > much better in the end, and that end will come much, much quicker. > I wouldn't go that far. As long as imports are done by active mappers in their local area and they take responsibility and fix all problems they create with the import. > Cheers, > Andy > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On 16 Nov 2009, at 7:14 , Anthony wrote: > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Andy Allan wrote: >> I'd love to know which map has an >> accurate pedestrian routing network that is collected as such and not >> a derived interpretation of other base maps. > > C'mon, this is the United States. A blank map is an accurate > pedestrian routing network. ;) > you are talking about a different US. I am constantly forced to stop at Violators will be prosecuted, signs. > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > talk...@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009TIGER data
> So please, turn away from imports and work on getting mappers in > charge, especially out pounding the streets. The outcome will be much, > much better in the end, and that end will come much, much quicker. The 'Quicker' part will always be debatable; I put in many hours on fixups and the end result of the number of miles of properly routable interstate, state, and county highway is much much greater than what I could have produced from scratch with only aerial images. There is an issue of "community" in the US and how to get it going in general across the US. There are areas in the US with more active communities, but I can count the number of active mappers in my state on one hand. I doubt TIGER has anything to do with this. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Andy Allan wrote: > I'd love to know which map has an > accurate pedestrian routing network that is collected as such and not > a derived interpretation of other base maps. C'mon, this is the United States. A blank map is an accurate pedestrian routing network. ;) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Russ Nelson wrote: > Andy Allan writes: > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: > > > > > There are still quite a few squeaky wheels that > > > like to grumble about TIGER, but I haven't heard a single person say > > > that it did more harm than good. > > > > It did more harm than good. > > No, it didn't. I didn't start mapping until TIGER was imported. Why? > Because I knew that a lot of the work had already been done. Why > should I waste my time, as you folks in the UK have **been forced** to > waste your time reinventing an existing map? Sorry, which map have we reinvented? I'd love to know which map has an accurate pedestrian routing network that is collected as such and not a derived interpretation of other base maps. Or maybe you think OSM is just a road network with some POIs? Or are you again thinking that the work we've done in OSM is actually inferior to the work available from the Ordnance Survey? > We have a public domain > map which we could start with. If all you're aiming for is a slightly better version of TIGER, then it was worth starting with TIGER and that's pretty much all you'll get. Oh, look, that's what happened. > Don't try to cast your impediment as an advantage. It wasn't, and our > advantage (sensible government policy) isn't an impediment. So let me get this straight, your public domain road shapefiles have been an advantage? And therefore OSM is better in the US than in Germany? Geez, we're all sure hurting from a lack of imports over here. I don't think you've really understood just *how* far behind you are (precisely because of this "advantage", imo) and how much slower things are progressing on your side of the Atlantic. So please, turn away from imports and work on getting mappers in charge, especially out pounding the streets. The outcome will be much, much better in the end, and that end will come much, much quicker. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] positioning of barrier = stile
Should be this: >or should I put in a node "e" and tag that with barrier = stile: c | | a---e-b | | d or, better c . . . a..e.b . d because the path has to actually join the road. b is the node of intersection. Nick ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
Andy Allan writes: > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: > > > There are still quite a few squeaky wheels that > > like to grumble about TIGER, but I haven't heard a single person say > > that it did more harm than good. > > It did more harm than good. No, it didn't. I didn't start mapping until TIGER was imported. Why? Because I knew that a lot of the work had already been done. Why should I waste my time, as you folks in the UK have **been forced** to waste your time reinventing an existing map? We have a public domain map which we could start with. Don't try to cast your impediment as an advantage. It wasn't, and our advantage (sensible government policy) isn't an impediment. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-323-1241 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] positioning of barrier = stile
Richard Bullock wrote: >> My query relates to where a footway joins a road and there is a stile. >> >> say a- b is footway , and c - d is road >> >> Should the stile be placed at "b" >> c >> | >> | >> a--b >> | >> | >> d >> >> or should I put in a node "e" and tag that with barrier = stile: >> >> c >> | >> | >> a---e-b >> | >> | >> d >> >> I have been doing the former, but it appears this might stop routing >> applications allowing a car to travel from c - d as the barrier = stile >> "blocks" the road to vehicle transport, and so the second tagging option >> might be better. >> >> > I've always tagged the stile where it actually is (via geo-tagged photo). I > would therefore use the 2nd option, but my positioning of node 'e' will > depend on where my photo says it is. > > Regardless of routing applications; the best option here is to ask yourself > how many stiles are there on the road between c to d. If the answer is none, > then the way c-d should not have any node tagged as a stile. > > > Not sure if you actually keep the path separate but I'd show it like this where the path is joined to the road with the stile set back Remember the ways are representing the centrelines of the route so a stile is always set back a bit by half the width of the road plus any verges, paths etc. c | | a--e--b | | d Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Will Google ever use OSM data?
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 8:30 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > 2009/11/12 Elizabeth Dodd >> >> > > http://www.toiletmap.gov.au/ >> ... but the toilet map is serious, even if the Register >> didn't realise it > > the cyclemap-makers also love toilets. They're displayed one zoomlevel more > (till 14) than churches and drinking_water ;-) Just wait until I start rendering benches at z10 and trees at z8! (If anyone cares, it used to be that all of europe was only available till z13 (z14 in the UK, urban areas were z15/z16) - so things that are important in rural areas had to show up at amusing zoom levels. I've yet to really get round to fixing that!) Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
2009/11/16 Andy Allan > > Yes. Please don't include "this point is within such-and-such a > polygon" data onto the point itself, it's redundant information and > not helpful. When a county border is changed by legislation, then > moving the border of the county should be sufficient for a mapper. > Having to check and update 10,000 address nodes would be error-prone. > > +1 is_in is completely useless especially as we improve the polygons like county and administrative areas. I very strongly with Andy here on this topic, especially considering how administrative areas are known to change in different countries. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 1:40 AM, Mike N. wrote: > > > > > > > I believe people have been saying that this information is not necessary, > and is_in is also not necessary for 99% of cases, so we can save space by > not including that for the Karlsruhe Schema. (But I don't know how the > namefinder works). Yes. Please don't include "this point is within such-and-such a polygon" data onto the point itself, it's redundant information and not helpful. When a county border is changed by legislation, then moving the border of the county should be sufficient for a mapper. Having to check and update 10,000 address nodes would be error-prone. Adding county/state/country data to address points will lead to a similar problem as we have with the original TIGER node tags - it'll takes ages to remove them further down the line! Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Talk-us] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: > There are still quite a few squeaky wheels that > like to grumble about TIGER, but I haven't heard a single person say > that it did more harm than good. It did more harm than good. As someone who has worked with TIGER data repeatedly, on a far larger scale than most people, I will say: It did more harm than good. As someone who spent 8 weeks working to clean up enough roads to make one, solitary, viable connected road across the US, I will say: It did more harm than good. As someone who has actually tried to fix the disastrous double imports, which have remained untouched for over 2 years, I will say: it did more harm than good. And as someone with a detailed knowledge of how OSM works on many different continents and situations, I will say: it did more harm than good. And of anyone in the discussion, let nobody accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about. I have spent 10 times as much time on TIGER fixup - both in projects and by helping other people - than anything else in openstreetmap over the last 12 months. But here's the worrying point, no matter how much time I spend trying to explain the problems with imports, I'm just a "squeaky wheel" to the pro-import guys. The tiger import has done more than anything else to ensure that OSM in the US will be years and years behind what it could otherwise be. The way to get back up to speed, build communities and build the best map of the world is to move on from the failed approach of imports, and to open your eyes to what is done day in day out in Europe - without making excuses that the US is somehow different. But that won't happen. Despite all evidence to the contrary, many people will continue with the idea that if only there were *enough* imports, OSM in the US will stop being lame and start being awesome. It won't. Every import just makes it take longer and longer and longer to build the community that is needed. It'll get there in the end, but every national-scale import sets back the end result by years. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Offline Dump of the Wiki
Hi! how can I get a offline version of the wiki? Alexander ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] why does mapnik not display my circles?
Kenneth, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > I am building a map using mapnik with India specific features. The idea is > that > the data will be in the osm database, but India specific features will only > show on my server. One important thing here is that food is strictly divided > into vegetarian and non-vegetarian. The law mandates that all food items > should have either a green circle or a red one to show food type. There are > areas in the country where it is very difficult to find a non-veg restaurant > (and > often considered impolite to enquire where one is). Since this is not > specific > to restaurants - it covers all shops that deal in food, I made a new tag > called food=veg and food=nveg with either a green or red circle. Check whether your planet_osm_points table in the PostGIS database actually contains a "food" column. (You say "the data is there in the database" but I'm not sure what step you are referring to there.) Simply try a "select count(*) from planet_osm_point where food='nveg';" to see if that returns anything. If not you will have to add the food column in osm2pgsql's style file. > I would expect a higher zoom would be the best way to go. I have > set numZoomLevels: 25, but the tool only shows the max as 18. How do I change > this? I am using openlayers with mod_tile. You will have to patch mod_tile/renderd to allow higher zoom levels than 18, the limit is hard coded somewhere in there! Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
