Re: [Talk-ca] Building Import
I'm from rural Alberta close to Lloydminster. The building import is something that interests me and would be useful in my area but I haven't been very actively mapping over the last year or two. Hopefully there are Alberta mappers on here who are much more active than I have been. Darren Wiebe On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 2:04 PM John Whelan wrote: > I think my concerns are to do with the "black box" approach. Knowing your > background I trust your work but others might not. > > On a technical side I get the impression that cites with buildings that > are close to each other are problematical. I assume that small locations > with a population of say under 125,000 this is an insignificant problem? > > The other issue is I'd like to either see buy in from Nate or at least > some Toronto mappers to get an indication that something will happen at the > end of the day as it is a fair chunk of Daniel's time to work out how do > the preprocessing. > > I think some BC mappers expressed some doubts as well so perhaps they > would like to think about if they are happy or would prefer BC to be > outside of the import project and express their views. > > Out of interest if it does move ahead are we including the Microsoft data > for areas where we do not have data from Stats Canada? If so we will need > to amend the project plan. > > My personal view is realistically I think having building information even > if its a meter or two out is better than not having the building outlines. > > What would be nice is if we could have some indication from places such as > Manitoba, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Quebec excluding Montreal, Ontario > excluding Toronto and the other provinces and territories whether they are > happy with importing the buildings either from Stats or Microsoft. > > I seem to recall Keith is in Manitoba, so any views other than it wasn't > present in the first release from Stats? > > Note to Alessandro this is just background stuff. > > Thanks > > Cheerio John > > Begin Daniel wrote on 2019-03-26 3:29 PM: > > Jarek, > The area you proposed in quite interesting and will force me to look further > at buildings with sharing edges, a concern Pierre also had. I'll be back soon > with your area processed. > Daniel > > -Original Message- > From: Begin Daniel [mailto:jfd...@hotmail.com ] > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 14:34 > To: Jarek Piórkowski; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Building Import > > Jarek, > Since it is a one-time process, I expect to be able to process the files if > the community feels comfortable with it. In the meantime, people are welcome > to send me the bounding box of an area they would like to examine. > > Daniel > > -Original Message- > From: Jarek Piórkowski [mailto:ja...@piorkowski.ca ] > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2019 13:46 > To: Begin Daniel; talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Building Import > > On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 13:10, Begin Daniel > wrote: > > There is actually no standard “code” available since I use FME > (www.safe.com). It is a proprietary ETL application and all operations are > done using “transformers” (https://www.safe.com/transformers/). I can provide > you with the workbench I developed (a bunch of linked transformers) but you > need a license to run it. This is why I tried to describe the operations I > run on the data in the wiki. > > As you did, people may send me coordinates (bounding box) of an area they > know well. I’ll process the area and send the results back in OSM format. > Please, be reasonable on the amount of data to process ;-) > > Thanks Daniel. Let me know how it looks then! > > Coming from an open-source background, the process is unusual to me, > and I have questions about scalability - will you be able to process > and provide updated data files for all of Canada then? - but if others > are comfortable with it then I won't object. > > Some general thoughts regarding tooling as raised upthread: > > I was initially excited to see building footprints data as they help > two quite distinct purposes: > > 1. they provide a mostly-automatic source of geometries for the > millions of single-family houses that wouldn't be mapped in the next > decade otherwise > > 2. they might provide a corrected and fairly accurate source of > geometries in heavily-built-up areas, where GPS signal is not that > reliable and it can be really difficult to get sufficiently accurate > geometries from imagery, whether because it's not sufficiently > high-resolution, two sets of imagery with conflicting offsets (Bing > and Esri are the two best sets in Toronto, and they're off by about > 1-2 m on nort
Re: [Talk-ca] CanVec Reverts
I'm usually just a lurker on these lists but this has dragged me out of my cave. Michael, I'm glad you care about the quality of the map, I do too. I welcome you to take an constructive approach to working with these problems. Canada has an area of 9,984,670 square kilometers with a population density of only 8.8. That presents us with challenges that wouldn't apply to a country with an area of 357,022 square kilometers and a population density of 593. Rather than handing out an ultimatum to the Canadian mapping community how about you work with us? We share your concerns in regards to data quality but your unilateral reversion of commits without communication or cooperation is damaging to the map. I find your comment "if it has not been touched for a few weeks" comment to be insulting and it shows a complete lack of understanding of the realities on the ground. I'm personally working at improving the map in my area (County of Vermilion River, Alberta, Canada) and you are more than welcome to constructively help. However, just because I haven't touched something for a couple of weeks doesn't mean I've forgotten about it. It means I was on holidays or got busy with other things in the office. Have you ever tried importing data using JOSM? I've spent hours poring over a few square miles of countryside and trying to get everything cleaned up and merged. Then, when I actually import, the data gets split into much smaller sizes. Or maybe I get some of it imported and then have to fix a bug I missed in something else. To somebody like you it looks like I just dumped a bunch of data in when in reality I've been picking away at it for a few days. Darren Wiebe On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Sam Dyck <samueld...@gmail.com> wrote: > Micheal > > Thanks for contacting us. I must object strongly to your use of the Worst > of OSM example and generally assumption that the data is broken if it > doesn't line up. I checked multiple commercial imagery providers before I > found a digitalglobe image that covered the area during the summer. There > is a large patch of sand between the vegetation-filled area and the coast. > As for the boundary, that comes from another official source, I think it is > supposed to be spaced off of the coastline, though I don't remember exactly > how they calculated it, we would likely need a constitutional change to > make it line up with the coast. Just because things don't match up does not > mean that the data is wrong. Nature doesn't always translate into nice, > clean maps. > > Sam > > -Original Message- > From: Michael Reichert [mailto:naka...@gmx.net] > Sent: Thursday, 1 September, 2016 01:39 > To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > Subject: [Talk-ca] CanVec Reverts > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA256 > > Hi, > > unfortunately posting via Gmane does not seem to work (the website is down > but NNTP still works), that's why I have to start a new thread. :-( > > Am Tue, 30 Aug 2016 21:41:21 -0500 schrieb Sam Dyck: > > After reading through the changeset discussion, I discovered that one > > of my imports in Northern Manitoba made Worst of OSM. > > (http://worstofosm.tumblr.com/post/22180046353/dear- > > openstreetmap-isnt-it-strange-how-the). As someone who spends a some > > time amount of time in some of relatively unpopulated areas of Canada > > and makes an effort to check the quality of Canvec data (which is > > usually pretty good), I do agree that it is impossible to do > > everything to the same level of quality that we would provide in > > Toronto or Timmins or even small prairie towns. > > First of all, it is ok that an import takes a few years and therefore > creates ugly green rectancles on the map. If an import is "unavoidable" > :-), a manual import is the best thing that can be happen. But if someone > uploads a changeset without a manual review beforehand, he counteracts the > aim of a manual import: addind good data to OpenStreetMap. That's what I am > mainly fighting against. If a users uploads much more than 100 objects per > minute [1], you can be sure that he has not done any manual review. A > manual review by myself confirmed this these. I am fighting against such > changesets/users. > > A good imports must be reviewed *before* it is being uploaded. The review > contains: > - - Run JOSM validator, fix all warnings and errors. This includes all > warnings regarding validity of areas. (you can argue if all warnings about > "deprecated" tagging have to be fixed) > - - Compare the data with available imagery. Is the forest really a forest > or is another tag more appropiate? Right-click on a Bing tile at JOSM and > have a look how old/recent the imagery is. > - - Check if CanVec data fits to its
Re: [Talk-ca] RIP CanVec
I'm near Lloydminster, Alberta and there is lots of data missing in the area that we use OSM for.I use Canvec to fill in missing data in my area. Canvec data should not be used to override more precise data but there are Geobase imports in my area that are a complete wreck. Some of the roads are so bad that it's significantly less time consuming to just erase the road and reimport versus trying to fix it. I do spend some time with my gps and look for corrections while out driving but in our area we'd have significantly less use for OSM without the Canvec data. Darren Wiebe On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Stewart C. Russell scr...@gmail.com wrote: On 14-11-17 03:53 PM, Ga Delap wrote: - CanVec a introduit des erreurs de modélisation en imposant dans OSM le concept de tuile plutôt qu'en respectant celui de l'objet. Amen to that. Is there any way to de-tile the data? I realise that most of Canada is one giant water relation, but is there a data processing pipeline that can recognize and join up split entities? I'd also be up for running a simplification routine on every way imported (or reimported). While ways can have a maximum number of nodes, they all don't need to have that number, and the original CanVec points aren't sacrosanct. Unless these issues can be carefully addressed, I'm firmly in the “Il ne faut pas” camp. cheers, Stewart ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Bringing canvec to OSM back to life
I can only address point 4. I'd love to see newer Canvec data. *Darren Wiebe* On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Andrew andrew.alli...@teksavvy.com wrote: Hello List: Given Daniel's reply that Canvec will no longer be supplied in OSM format, I'm curious about: 1: I don't know what I don't know to begin with :-) 2: Are the scripts / programs available to do the conversion still available? 3: Was there ever a program written to produce a diffs file? 4: Is there a desire to have newer Canvec data converted to OSM? Just throwing this out there. Andrew aka CanvecImports ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Pourquoi les imports doivent être régis
I'd like the communities input. I work in Lloydminster, AB ( http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/53.4594/-109.4980) and we're using OpenStreetMap in my job to provide mapping to our service trucks and provide customer locations, etc. Over the last year and a half I've been working on expanding the OpenStreetMap coverage in my area. Some of this has come from roads I've personally driven on but much of it in Saskatchewan has come from Canvec. I'm picking away at keepright in the area as well. I don't want to load a lot of junk into the map but the canvec roads are very close and with roads the map is of no use. Should I be importing just the roads or is there a better data source? Or what other option am I missing? Darren Wiebe 2014/1/7 Pierre Béland pierz...@yahoo.fr OpenStreetMap est un projet collaboratif. Il y a un côté social qui peut vraiment ajouter au plaisir de cartographier. Par contre, si chacun travaille de son côté sans coordination, si les nouveaux ne sont pas minimalement encadrés, nous devons nous attendre à toutes sortes de problèmes. Pour progresser et développer une meilleure carte, nous devons avoir réussir à constituer une communauté davantage organisée, qui identifie les problèmes de façon plus systématique, qui trouve des outils pour les régler, qui assure un minimum de suivi des contributeurs. Il faut avoir du plaisir à travailler ensemble. Regardez comment nous réussissons à stimuler les contributeurs et réaliser des projets tels que pour le typhon Haiyan aux Philippines. Il serait intéressant de faire de même pour la communauté du Québec, de se donner des objectifs et travailler tous ensemble à les réaliser. La communauté OSM-france a développé des procédures pour l'import de données et fait un suivi beaucoup plus systématique que nous. Ils ont aussi développé l'outil Osmose pour la validation / correction des erreurs. Nous avons obtenu que le Québec soit couvert par cet outil. Il faudrait davantage s'en servir. Les polygones en double y sont notamment couverts. L'exemple suivant montre un polygone de lac importé en 2009 à partir de Canvec. Le même contributeur a créé un doublon en 2011. Dans ce cas-ci ce n'est pas l'import canvec qui est à blamer et c'est le même contributeur réussit à créer un tel doublon et sans y ajouter d'attributs. voir http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/?zoom=16lat=46.65962lon=-76.09482layers=B00FFTitem=level=1,2,3 L'outil Osmose permet également à un contributeur de voir la liste des erreurs liées à des objets qu'il a édité. Comment pouvons-nous progresser, améliorer notre carte, avoir le plaisir de travailler ensemble et de progresser ? Des idées là-dessus? Pierre -- *De :* dega gade...@gmail.com *À :* jfd...@hotmail.com *Cc :* talk-ca@openstreetmap.org *Envoyé le :* Mardi 7 janvier 2014 9h47 *Objet :* [Talk-ca] Pourquoi les imports doivent être régis Le 7 janvier 2014 12:00:01 talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org a écrit : Saying that data import is harmful to OpenStreetMap project and harmful to its community sounds like sharing a belief. Please, provide us with concrete examples to make all of us understand why - not only believe - that imports are harmful... Je n'ai aucun avis à propos des données de New-York mais j'ai de trés mauvaises expériences avec les imports Canvec. À mon avis, les données Canvec sont, dans plusieurs cas: - désuètes - erronées - imprécises J'ai des exemples à fournir à propos de chacun de ces qualificatifs. J'ai aussi des problèmes avec les importateurs Canvec. Le site OSM recommande qu'un importateur s'associe à un mappeur local. À ma connaissance, cela ne se fait pas. Dans plusieurs cas, des données invalides sont été importées qui écrasent des données valides qui avaient été créés par un contributeur enthousiaste. Si les importateurs n'ont aucun respect pour les données des contributeurs, il sera très difficile d'augmenter la participation populaire à OSM. J'entend souvent: les données Canvec sont erronées mais il y aura des petits singes pour les corriger. Je ne crois pas que ce soit une bonne approche; les contributeurs enthousiastes préfèrent créer des bonnes données plutôt que de corriger les laxismes des autres. Les importateurs utilisent ouvent la méthode du tabula rasa et détruisent ainsi des données ramassées avec beaucoup d'efforts. S'ils ne respectent pas les données des autres, les importateurs ne doivent pas s'attendre à être respectés par les contributeurs. S'ils n'ont pas tout effacé au préalable, les importateurs devraient avoir la responsabilité de faire le ménage. Ce n'est pas fait! Dans les laurentides (et probablement ailleurs), on trouve souvent 2 définitions du même lac qui se superposent. La question n'est pas de savoir laquelle de ces 2 définitions est la bonne mais plutôt de mettre l'emphase sur le fait qu'une carte de qualité ne
Re: [Talk-ca] Mappy New Year
On this topic, are there any others on this list from the Lloydminster AB or SK area. Darren Wiebe On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Hi All, I hope that you are off to a great start on your mapping activities for 2014. OpenStreetMap is certainly off to a great start. User emacsen wrote a compelling article today that drove a significant number of new mappers to OpenStreetMap. That's some great advocacy, right there. The article is really aimed at folks who are not yet mappers, so not really the same audience of these lists, as we're already mappers. but you might enjoy the article anyway. Have a look. http://blog.emacsen.net/blog/2014/01/04/why-the-world-needs-openstreetmap/ In 2014 we will see the 10 anniversary / birthday of OpenStreetMap. What are you going to do to celebrate? We (the local mappers in Toronto) will host another OpenStreetMap Mapiversary party, details to be determined, how about your local group? On that subject, is this the year that you'll start a local mapping group in your town? I've never understood why it is that the German community has groups of mappers that meet each month, in just about every city, town and village of size, while in North America those groups are very rare. It could be that the difference is you. You can start a successful, self-sustaining local group that meets each month to discuss OpenStreetMap. So you should do that. It's great fun. Part of our fun in Toronto in 2013 included, the 9th birthday party, including a map cake. Twelve regularly scheduled Mappy Hour events, two formal presentation events, three special guest events to celebrate august mappers visiting from other places. (and a little bit of a flood, but we soldiered on anyway.) What about this thread? Tell me, what your plans are for 2014? and have a Mappy New Year, Richard ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
