[OSM-talk] military vs consumer GPS and the equator
Not too long ago I was in Ecuador at the Mitad del Mundo and noticed a fairly significant discrepancy between my own GPS and an official marker. The Mitad del Mundo is a monument setup to mark the equator, after which Ecuador is named. Obviously the equator is a line, but this is a single monument at an arbitrary longitude, not far from the capital city all the same - don't ask me why. The monument is erected where they thought the equator was, before being able to measure this accurately. A few hundred metres away is a museum where the 'actual' equator is, supposedly measured with a 'military GPS' for extra accuracy. There are tricks there, such as egg-balancing on watching the water go down the sink in different directions - supposedly induced by the coriolis effect. The problem is my consumer GPSes (a Garmin GPSMap 60Csx and an HTC Magic running Android) thought that the equator was about 30-40m away from where a 'military GPS' had supposedly measured it and where these equatorial tricks were being performed. When I walked to where they thought the equator was, it run through the middle of a nearby road and car park. Had they just placed the museum in a more convenient place than the middle of the nearby road (which couldn't be moved)? Or is this sort of discrepancy known and accepted? Didn't Clinton turn the encryption off some of the accuracy bits of the GPS signal at some stage (making military vs consumer less important)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] military vs consumer GPS and the equator
So essentially even the so-called 'scientific museum' was a sham/lie and the experiments they showed-off were made up. The real equator is nearby, but not where they said it was. A positive implication: all the mapping that is done to higher accuracies (10m) is meaningful. On 26 January 2011 11:11:00 UTC+13, john j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: My understanding (which may not be correct) is that civilian GPS units are supposedly now as accurate as the military units in terms of latitude and longitude, but are deliberately much less accurate at altitude readings. ---Original Email--- Subject :[OSM-talk] military vs consumer GPS and the equator From :mailto:geojoeli...@gmail.com Date :Tue Jan 25 16:02:29 America/Chicago 2011 Not too long ago I was in Ecuador at the Mitad del Mundo and noticed a fairly significant discrepancy between my own GPS and an official marker. The Mitad del Mundo is a monument setup to mark the equator, after which Ecuador is named. Obviously the equator is a line, but this is a single monument at an arbitrary longitude, not far from the capital city all the same - don't ask me why. The monument is erected where they thought the equator was, before being able to measure this accurately. A few hundred metres away is a museum where the 'actual' equator is, supposedly measured with a 'military GPS' for extra accuracy. There are tricks there, such as egg-balancing on watching the water go down the sink in different directions - supposedly induced by the coriolis effect. The problem is my consumer GPSes (a Garmin GPSMap 60Csx and an HTC Magic running Android) thought that the equator was about 30-40m away from where a 'military GPS' had supposedly measured it and where these equatorial tricks were being performed. When I walked to where they thought the equator was, it run through the middle of a nearby road and car park. Had they just placed the museum in a more convenient place than the middle of the nearby road (which couldn't be moved)? Or is this sort of discrepancy known and accepted? Didn't Clinton turn the encryption off some of the accuracy bits of the GPS signal at some stage (making military vs consumer less important)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Beautiful maps for a travel blog reviews site
In 2001 (before OSM and Google Maps), I cofounded a travel bloghttp://www.ballofdirt.comwebsite which featured its own maps (of your trip locations) as they unwound as a 'ball of string' across the 'ball of dirt' that is our world. Dedication to the project has had its bursts, there is video/photo uploading and a few bugs and things to fix. The mapping could be vastly improved and since I've been an active OSM user/contributor the past few years it's time to roll the sleeves up and integrate better maps into BallOfDirt.com The maps on the site are generated using public domain DEM (digital elevation data) which specifies the altitude coarsely across the globe using some custom C code that essentially renders blue (water) if the altitude is less than zero, and then a range of colours above that. A slight 'shadow' effect is rendered for pixels that are lower than the ones to their upper-left neighbours, to give a slightly simple 'relief' map feeling. Nowadays SRTM elevation data is more accurate and would allow 'zoomed in' bits of coastline etc to look less chunky, but perhaps this is the wrong approach anyway. Locations (places visited) are added simply from a big import of Geonames into some nicely normalised tables, with some more custom rendering for the splines that represent the user's journey as they roam, marking the cities/places they visit. The reaindering is done with a nice engine that can distribute the load across (geographically) across a grid of media generating and caching servers, cache the result of various layers/actions and understands processing commands in a nice XML language with fed-in parameters for each step (e.g. a step for rendering a map, one for scaling it, one for rendering the lines of the journey's paths, one for producing PNG output etc) At one stage (many years ago) I toyed and fiddled with getting VMAP0 data (or VMAP1 or VMAP2) going as a layer for better features such as geographic boundaries, cities, airports, major roads, swamps etc which looked exciting and promising but had its own problems. I wanted to turn rendering of visible features on and off at various zoom levels (e.g. regions/boundaries at one level, then rivers and major roads, then minor roads etc). Since them I'm obviously a big OSM convert and would like to use the lovely data that is out there and enjoy the continuous improvements, as well as hopefully get our travellers to feed back useful data and improvements. So how to go about it? Here are some of the things that would be good to achieve 1. Slippy map - this should be easy. Our current map has a mercator-projection version (not currently enabled on the site) which could help it generate tiles as a base layer for a slippy map, *if we go that way* 2. Unique colours/look and feel - we already have that, but perhaps it's time to give up our own map rendering engine and look at Mapnik etc. We can create a tile server, although obviously avoiding so would be desirable if it can be done without causing too much impact on any one source server (perhaps we can retrieve and cache tiles) 3. Nice relief maps with SRTM data - something a bit like this type of shading too http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/a/a1/Toposm-example-nhd2.jpgavailable at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TopOSM - I notice TopOSM is not global btw 4. Custom configuration to determine which POIs etc are visible at various zoom levels - not radically different from OSM's tiles but probably tweaked with different features that are interesting to travellers highlighted. I guess so far it's quite similar to OpenCycleMap 5. Ability to overlay our own paths/lines over the top. These are currently generated in SVG, then rendered as a transparent (alpha channeled) layer over the top of the map. They could be chopped into tiles easily, as long as they cold be transparent overlays 6. Possibility to search not just from our (imported) Geonames data for placenames and features, but also from OSM (live?) database and/or Geonames web service, so updates and fixes are handled 7. Updates to OSM map visible on the site - ideally ASAP but at the most within a couple of weeks 8. Ideally ability to use OAuth to help tweak or add things like POIs where one of our users has the relevant info - avoiding a separate sign-up process This is all on Debian/Ubuntu/Apache/Postgres with the main languages used being PHP and Python, although others are fine. I could just plough in and start messing around with the tools but I thought I'd ask first in case there are some big shortcuts, pointers or a bit of lateral thinking (e.g. whole steps that could be omitted). What existing resources/tools/plans can I use here to 'stand on the shoulders of giants'? Oh and was VMAP* imported into OSM? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org
[OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons
For those of us who perhaps haven't watched all of the threads too carefully, is there such a thing as a list of the issues the new ODbL was intended to address (its pros) and the problems that those who wish to stick to the CC-by-SA license perceive with the switch (cons)? I haven't seen such a list compiled anywhere yet, but that might be oversight on my part. Certainly a list of pros and cons seems like the best place for anyone to feel fully informed about the switch and accept (or reject) it with any degree of confidence. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] transport links, timetables and connections
Bus stations (including relations to describe which routes pass over those stops) are already in place, but are there any provisions for all the meta-data that might allow someone to create a route planning search that operates entirely on public transport (and/or flights, ferries etc)? Required metadata would include (but not be limited to!): * timetable information and exclusions * exact geographical location of the various stops, e.g. the same company might depart from terminal A stop 12 for a given destination or a completely different terminal for another destination. * lists of stops made and their timings * metadata about the transport, e.g. type of bus/comforts/features, same for planes etc * connecting delays that need to be factored in (e.g. walk or subway/tube between stations) Does this information even belong in OSM? It seems quite suitable to storing it, and things like the stop locations and terminal locations, ticket office locations are ideal in OSM of course, but the structuring of the timetables and connections perhaps less so? Thanks! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] scuba dive sites
On searching, I have seen several pages and proposals in the wiki for scuba diving sites and for dive shops. I am currently tagging up the island of Utila, Honduras, which is well known for its diving. What can I use as a basic tag type for these two things (a dive location and a dive shop which sells courses, provides equipment etc)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-ca] Import of NRN 092H04
Sweet! Thank you! Every bit of imported data helps, because it means that there's one more person who knows how the process works, and who can help spread the work of getting the topology right around (IMHO the hardest part of the whole process). Is there a chance you could document the process in the wiki (even with a pretty diagram for the stages)? The reason is I'm starting to think of some of these things for the New Zealand import, and gradually discovering steps that I know you guys have gone through discovering already. Without trawling the archives it's a bit tricky working out which bits are which and what they do in your process. I'm sure it would speed up others who getting started working on the Canadian import too! ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[OSM-talk] map requirement for a large pubishing/media group
I am helping a media company to add geo-location to its articles, and thought it might help speed the process of matching the requirements to a technology provider (or set of technologies) by presenting it to the OSM community. I'm hoping to stick to as many open technologies here as possible while satisfying the requirements. This will be justifiable both in terms of preference for open-technologies, lack of vendor-lockin, as well as hopefully through lower license fees. Ideally this would be taking pieces off the shelf and gluing them together, rather than doing lots of bespoke development. At the very least I thought sharing the requirement with the OSM community might help shape future changes. One area I'm not sure about is postcode searches, since these need to be accurate/complete. Could we license this separately for now, and use OSM? Or could geocoding be done through a separate API to another provider, but the maps themselves be from OSM? Anyway, here is the full brief: Overview The proposed mapping system (sub-CMS) is a form-based tool to enable journalists to quickly and easily generate both static and dynamic maps that can be embedded in articles and summary pages. It should require no IT skills whatsoever. The only skills it should require are the ability to complete a short form, accurately spell a place name or post code, enter it and associated content or article information in fields on a form and preview the resulting map prior to publishing. In essence it is a software wrapper that sits on top of and communicates with the feature-rich mapping APIs now available (Google, Yahoo, Bing, Openstreetmap) to allow site users to automatically generate from these APIs bespoke AJAX and Flash maps appropriate to varying editorial requirements. Requirements * must perform well and have high (99+%) availability. Most accessed from English-speaking countries, so ideally with points of presence in UK/US, or easily cached using typical content delivery network (CDN) - such as Akamai * must handle large numbers of requests and traffic spikes * ideally vendor-neutral, so that the content writer can view several potential maps from different providers and select that which offers the best coverage/features/illustration for the content (abstraction layer?) * store geo-metadata with the article/content * allow multiple geo-data metadata tags to be stored with each, for content that relates to several locations, regions etc * handle encapsulating concepts, e.g. areas/countries/states/provinces/regions, and their relationship to other features (towns, streets etc) * fast, convenient search and lookup of places, including disambiguation (preferably with details and maps to show options) * store all these relationships with the content in a flexible, (if possible) open format It should be capable of allowing content writers/producers to: *Select the size of the map from a dropdown set of sizes (default sizes provided) *Select the map view type - (Map, Satellite, Terrain, Hybrid) - (default is Map) *Select the map format - html/Ajax or Flash-based *Select the centre of the map by entering a place name - (default based on map content) *Select the initial zoom level - (default based on map content) *Select map annotation type (either marker, or shape, or marker + shape) *Enter a headline/caption and select its placement (either as an overlay or above or below map) *Generate SEO metadata from headline, place names and map marker content automatically *Add additional SEO metadata to the map from the form *Save the map, for future use and revision. *Save JPEG images of map in preset sizes as snapshots Map Generation Tools Required *Generate maps with markers displaying content fields entered from a standard form. *Generate markers based on place names, street addresses or postcodes. *Select marker style from a dropdown *Revise markers by dragging and re-setting markers *Revise marker content by clicking on Edit button to relink to location search/entry Form *Draw any shape (line, circle, square, polygon) on a map, and select line colour and fill *Link the map content to a Google spreadsheet, if appropriate so the content can be dynamically updated - (either by direct entry or fed by user-generated entries) *Revise any shape by dragging and resetting *Revise shape content by clicking on Edit button to relink to entry Form *Overlay imported vector and bitmap shapes from file *Overlay imported ESRI shape files from file *Be able to dynamically associate rich content with any shape *Bulk upload marker content from a csv or tabbed text file *Allow user generated entries via pre-set Filter fields ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Karlsruhe schema with address ranges
I am tagging some buildings which contain multiple addresses in them, but not interpolated http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.49994lon=-2.61296zoom=16layers=B000FTF Since the listing of these numbers is long and sloppy, is it possible to use the sub-proposal for ranges (e.g. 37-45) given here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema#Sub-proposal:_ranges_of_numbers_for_individual_nodes ? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) - Openstreetmap import first pass
there are some obvious omissions and variations as you mentioned one that stands out to me is the omission of the Rakaia River which is more than a small creek! I'm not entirely sure why these are not showing up. It's not a case of the tags being missing, they are lacking in the original data as well. I'll upload the .osm files shortly for you to peruse.. and also Canterbury some roads shown as minor tracks but as I see it having them is a huge bonus as they can be retagged later to correctly display etc from local survey/knowledge Right, I think some roads are being tagged as dirt tracks, when instead they should possibly just be surface=unpaved, hence they won't show up with dotted brown lines... I don't have you tech skills but would be happy to assist with improving correcting the data after the import as I have quite alot of local knowledge and about and about all over the SI That's exactly what it's about at this stage, spotting anomalies, tagging problems and other omissions... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New (better?) source of contours
Just spotted this - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8126197.stm More - http://asterweb.jpl.nasa.gov/ - this seems to be dead at the moment mind... Nice find! I notice they seem to have 'invested' in MS SQL Server for their project: Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e4d' [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Too many client tasks. /index.asp, line 3 :-D ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) - Openstreetmap import first pass
I've been working on the LINZ data import, on attribution/legal as well as the actual import. The LINZ data I have is actually via the NZ Open GPS project and is in Polish Map (.mp) format, which seems to use Garmin types for its features. I've hacked around with a few other scripts and have created a python script which creates .osm files, and then imported them into a local postGIS instance I run at home. From there I've generated tiles using Mapnik and uploaded them to a dev server for your perusal Upload is still in progress but most are there already (starting in the north and working south). It's just south of Christchurch already and I have gone and rendered Dunedin, Queenstown and Glenorchy ahead of time. If you find zoom 16 is not visible then zoom out a bit until you find the available tiles. As mentioned all of the north island is done. http://linz.dev.openstreetmap.org/~JoeRichards/ Notes: * import was done on a basic world map (from vmap0) to provide coastlines where they were missing * some large rivers have a lot of detail, but some seem to be missing altogether (e.g. Lower Hutt river) - this was also missing in the NZOGPS dataset, not sure why * tiles are still being generated and uploaded now (Tue 30th June), but all of the north island to 16 zoom levels is done as well as the Tasman... South of Christchurch is still being uploaded (although some tiles are there at lower zoom levels) * I think most of the road types (primary, secondary, trunk) etc might be completely off, including the link roads. Please send me any specific instances or comments on this * No attempt made to support anything like turn restrictions or relations since this was missing from the original dataset * Roundabouts seem to have an issue as well, where their parts are missing * large lakes such as Lake Wakatipu near Queenstown were split across two datasets, and as such as not showing up * central cities seem to have more detail in the existing OSM data (except perhaps some missing street names) but rural areas have less... This is ok, but your thoughts are welcome on how to merge these * parcel boundaries (cadastral) information, showing property boundaries, shapes, and house numbers will be imported separately, ie are to-do * Department of Conservation parks, national parks, reserves etc are also to-do, although some are present in the current dataset. * No data is merged with current OSM data, so this is really to spot problems before we attempt merging. It has been suggested we might use the java-based RoadMatcher for this. Your comments are welcome. * Thanks to Geofabrik.de for allowing me to use their compare javascript I will also put up the .osm files generated by the script so you can check out whether the data is there, but just incorrectly tagged. Please feedback to me anything you see, especially if it is incorrect. Since the plan is to merge this with the existing Openstreetmap data, missing features that are in OSM are less of an issue than features that should be in the imported dataset but are not (and hence are missing on both). Source (GPL) is here http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/applications/utils/import/linz2osm/mp2osm_linz_jr.py Anything in the code marked as TODO or FIXME requires special attention and verification. Enjoy and feel free to comment! ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Land Information New Zealand (LINZ) data import technical steps
I'm working on the LINZ data import, which will bring New Zealand's maps forward in a huge leap and includes all roads, streets, various features (parks, airports, streams, riverways etc). LINZ gave OSM permission over a year ago to import the data, provided attribution was passed on with the data. The attribution can be a mixture of tags (user id, source, attribution link), some attribution pages online, and apparently the ODbL license may help towards this (although I'm unclear as to how, in case anyone wishes to enlighten me). Although I'm interested in this and involved with it, it's not the focus of my question. On the actual import, I have been working on the mp2osm script which takes Polish Map .mp format and turns it into OSM data, ready for JOSM. This is because the data files I can get hold of are in that format, and have been processed heavily by NZ Open GPS. The downside is that I can't yet get hold of the LINZ data to see whether all this processing (for example of feature types) is accurate and for comparison. It is also broken up into regions, so many of the features are obviously not joined together at the borders of the regions. In the meantime I have been pushing on and creating mappings for the various features found, and would like to setup some tests etc so that people can review the results in cycles. Here are some of the questions/issues/things to do which I would appreciate some help on: * getting a test OSM server setup. I know about api06.dev.openstreetmap.org, but it would be good to have the current NZ data in there to check for overlay/conflict/merge results with existing data. This server should also generate tiles for everyone to peruse and check, ie for iterative debugging * getting hold of the original LINZ files (I believe a DVD full) for comparison with the NZ OpenGPS versions, and to check feature types etc in the LINZ data dictionary * leads on the Cadastral/Corax data since the stuff I have seems to be missing property boundaries, street numbers and so on * people who were involved in the TIGER or Dutch data import for their experiences and advice (ideally send my your chat/IM handles too) * any idea why we can't make NZ a normal mailing list, like the other OSM ones? Help classifying the data: * information on the Garmin types (hex codes) * comments on the draft admin_level codes for New Zealand, which I put up here in the table http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:boundary * help with tagging stuff like mountain ranges, ridges, gully/gorge POIs etc etc As soon as a test area is setup which generates tiles, I will start uploading chunks for others to view, comment on and help tweak the import scripts... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK.I checked it (from other random computers, not my laptop) when I was in Thailand and Australia and it always showed the UK. Is the UK the default if IP resolution fails? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] putting GPS units in taxis
That would be my personal recommendation. I once made a small research on the availability of GPRS enabled devices (out f personal interest) and came to the conclusion that they tend to be very expensive for what they do. So I would suggest: Buy some good quality gpx trackers, that allow for programming that swiches tracking of, if the device doesn't move (so if the taxi sits in the parking lot for a night, it doesn't collect loads of random points) and has a good battery life. Then just get the tracks every couple of days. I was thinking more of a device that can be installed in some sort of roaming vehicle (taxi, courier, tuktuk) and left for a year or two to collect data and send it in without intervention. I imagined something along the lines of one of the older Windows Mobile devices made by HTC (with GPRS and Wifi), connected to a GPS with an antenna, and hooked up to the car battery either via the cigarette lighter or (more intrusively) wired in especially. Some of the older HTC devices are only about £60 these days - and can have Linux installed, which would be significantly more stable and more predictable than WM, and could be pre-configured to detect and connect to known wifi hotspots, such as those at Petrol stations. A subscription to these (e.g. via Boingo.com) is very cheap. The software could have a threshold, whereby after a period of no Wifi connectivity (say more than X mb of GPX trails stored), it can upload via GPRS instead. Many pay-as-you-go SIM cards in places like Thailand have an 'unlimited internet for one day' option which would be well-suited to this type of burst upload. I guess all you'd need on top of that is something that detects the charge state of the device and saves and powers down if the charge is off for more than 10 minutes (since many taxis in places like Bangkok switch off their engines at traffic lights). On the social-engineering side, I imagine having a local Thai explain what it was for, and offer something like 500THB (£10) a month would be more than enough incentive to leave the thing running ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] putting GPS units in taxis
I noticed while in Thailand recently that the OSM coverage there is pretty poor, despite the fact that there is a big population there and it's a major tourist destination too. It would be much easier to map things there if we had sufficient GPX trails, and I got thinking that putting a GPS in some taxis would be a great way to do this, to get 'random' tracks as they roam around. The best thing would be if somehow the device could either upload the traces via mobile (GPRS/3G) or possibly when in proximity to a wifi network (of which there are plenty). I'd be happy to get down to designing such a device, but has anyone done anything like this already? If so, what were the experiences? As an aside, getting Thais involved (e.g. to put Thai names on features) would be a plus too. Getting something like a talk-th group going would be a good idea, but would require some involved Thais to lead the way... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Potlatch connection to server failed
I have a fairly large set of edits in Potlatch, but when I click 'save', I get Sorry the connection to the Openstreetmap server failed. Any recent changes have not been saved. Would you like to try again [retry] [cancel]. Obviously my internet connectivity is fine, and I can bring up another tab with Potlatch, make edits and save them. How can I preserve all the editing I've done in this session? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] pub vs bar vs club
How do you tag a drinking establishment that is not a pub? I'm thinking of places where * they typically don't serve food * the name doesn't start with The or have Olde Worlde signs out the front * the main drinks are often wine or cocktails, rather than pints of beer * there may (or may not) be an area set aside for dancing, e.g. with a DJ * in places with ridiculous licensing laws (such as the UK), these places are often open later than pubs, which normally wind down around 11pm or midnight. A bar or club may not even really get moving before 11 or 12 Pub is definitely misleading in these instances, although the icon of a drink is probably still appropriate ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Potlatch and sketching from aerial imagery
I've been enjoying sketching/tracing from Yahoo aerial imagery in Potlatch (hey some people knit or do crosswords, I find _this_ relaxing!). I recently discovered that the default 'highway' tag for roads taken from imagery is highway=road (_not_ highway=unclassified as would seem logical!) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Yahoo!_Aerial_Imagery#How_to_sketch.3F If that is the case, why does Potlatch not offer highway=road as one of its presents, under the little car icon? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] new list member
This might not be the most intelligent response but... How cool! All sorts of people conversing and processing our world, its senses and messages... I love technology, I love ideas, I love possibilities, communication and maps Now if Google would stop being so evil with their licensing On 30 May 2009, at 23:03, Josh jkenn...@gmail.com wrote: Hello My name is Josh and I am a new list member. I am blind, use screen readers such asJaws by Freedom Scientific and NVDA from www.nvda-project.org . I joined thiss list because I use a free gps program for blind people called Loadstone gps. I was wondering if someone on this list could create a tool which would turn an open streetmap .osm file into a loadstone database file, or perhapsa loadstone points file such as those which can be obtained from the loadstone point share exchange website? Also I got a small .osm file for my area and imported it into loadstone...yes there is a tool at www.rmpro-hosting.com/ls/ and www.loadstone-gps.com that will convert .osm files but the .osm files must be 2mb or less in size. I would like a tool that wiill convert a big osm file like the 130mb pennsylvania.osm file that I got. Also does anyone know about how many points of interest there are for the united states in .osm format? in my city, Reading Pennsylvania zip code 19602 ththe .osm loadstone converter which is limited by file size included 78 pois(points of interest.) And for example I know there's a subway restaurant and a quiznos that are in Reading but they are not in the loadstone database that I connverted from the .osm file. Josh Josh email isjkenn...@gmail.com msn: kenn649...@hotmail.com skype: jkenn337 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? Given the US have forgotten to keep the GPS system up to date, maybe we need a few satelites of our own to replace it... Or maybe we can use Galileo once its up instead. This was more about high-resolution aerial photography suitable for deriving traces. As for geopositioning satellites, I doubt the US military-industrial complex (or its adherents in places like Europe) will allow such a key technology to fall into real disrepair. Plus with future civilian receivers combining signals from Galileo and GPS, alongside radio signals, the future is actually looking brighter than ever... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? On 18 May 2009, at 13:36, MP singular...@gmail.com wrote: In addition to actively pursuing further experiments for the MOD and BNSC, the consortium is also seeking new applications to which the technology can be applied. i.e. it's as much a research project as a commercial operation... so maybe your idea of let's just ask them could work. Perhaps they can give us some photography from times when the satellite is idle (moving over areas where nobody wants currently photography of them) either for free or at some reduced cost Sound great, but in the mean time we can of course buy commercial photography including the right to derive mapping at a cost of about $17 per sq km So if we manage to photograph over 2300 square km of area of our choice in the week of rented satellite, then the satellite would end up being cheaper (and more up to date) than commercial photography. I guess that could be worth it. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-newbies] avoid repeating the name tag twice
I like the idea of the language element. I would like to add an extra precision in this case. I think the order of language should be by importance. Unfortunately, in this case namely the country, it is something highly political to even consider an order. But, in the case of a town located in the French speaking part, it would be logical to put something like fr;nl;da instead of nl;fr;da. The reverse would be true. Belgium is one interesting place to look at; Spain might be an other place to look at. The area around Barcelona is likely to be named in Catalan nowadays rather than Castellano. The order of language is likely to be a minefield because we are talking about something highly political, but it would allow to support the concept of native language, which I believe is very important. Things like different alphabet might be also interesting to look at even if it is likely that it can be subsumed under translation. I don't think the relatively peaceful and stable country of Belgium is at all the only example where ranking the languages would be quite political and/or controversial. What about in New Zealand where a treaty between the Queen and the tribes of New Zealand established the Maori tribes as equals, and their language, culture and courts as equals - yet only a small percentage of the population speaks it? What order do you put the languages? There would be a political uproar if the government of NZ tried to suggest a ranking. Or in Tibet, where before the 1950's invasion by the communists everyone speaks Tibetan, but now gradually more and more people are shipped in who speak Mandarin Chinese and will probably vastly outnumber the Tibetans in their homeland within our lifetime? People in the Basque country might be a little horrified if you put Castillian in front of Basque (and some might even object to it being in the list). Regions of India have many languages and subdialects, sometimes switching in a borderless fashion within a small region/space. Lastly what actual value would ranking the languages spoken in region by importance give the project - ie could it be shown on a map, or interpreted in any device that would be meaningful? I'm just curious and playing devil's advocate - happy to be convinced that there is true benefit to a proposal like this... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik weekly rendering after API 0.6
Is the weekly Mapnik rendering process still running after the upgrade to API 0.6? If so, which day is it scheduled for? It will still occurs on Wednesdays. I have started off the import this evening so it should begin rendering the latest changes tomorrow. so it's normally on a cron schedule, but this time it was started manually? Out of interest, since Mapnik seems to process the entire world quite quickly, why is it not invoked when a tile is dirty, like osmarender? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapnik weekly rendering after API 0.6
Out of interest, since Mapnik seems to process the entire world quite quickly, why is it not invoked when a tile is dirty, like osmarender? It is. Either a tile is requested in real-time (if it doesn't exist) or is queued if the tile is old (via render_old). mod_tile is an amazing piece of software indeed. Some areas which have been updated but don't show up in Mapnik as changed at all: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.40296lon=-0.02184zoom=16layers=B000FTF http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.03081lon=-2.68463zoom=15layers=0B00FTF Oddly enough when I view them on Sautter, they are considerably better (every few hours) http://sautter.com/map/?zoom=16lat=51.40231lon=-0.02272layers=B0FFFT ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] mapnik weekly rendering after API 0.6
Is the weekly Mapnik rendering process still running after the upgrade to API 0.6? If so, which day is it scheduled for? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Offline editing during downtime
[snip] Yes, Martin is right. Cannot parse valid node from xml string node id=26374527 action=modify timestamp=2007-11-30T04:11:44Z user=kresp0 visible=true changeset=339 lat=51.5006728 lon=-0.1244324 tag k=tourism v=attraction/ tag k=name v=Big Ben/ tag k=clock v=big/ tag k=created_by v=Potlatch 0.5d/ /node. Version is required when updating BUT if you change all (node|way|relation) to $1 version='1' and change the version number, it seems to work: http://mysql.dev.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/340 Will go off to lunch and write python program on return, because all programs must be written in Python, or REwritten in Python if necessary. We are the Borguido, we will assimilate you. I too have an .osm file floating around for upload from 0.5, whereabouts can I get a copy of your Python script from to test it against it (and 0.6)? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking
I will be trekking in Nepal later this year, and would like to keep some nice GPX trails and waypoints (both on the trekking trails and in the towns/roads), since it looks relatively unmapped... I usually use a windows mobile device with a bluetooth GPS but this strikes me as way to flimsy and the battery life would be far too short. What is my best option given the requirements of: * reasonable robustness - ie can be put in the top pocket of a backpack and forgotten about for a day, even if I slip over or sling my bag around * excellent battery life, ideally a few days' tracking before a recharge (although I could carry other power sources, I'd rather not) * a little feedback, not just a GPS 'brick' - e.g. a display and/or the ability to enter waypoint names would be nice ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking
Well I'd like to collect lots of data, even if it involves me taking a pack of those 2GB SD cards that I keep switching every day or two... Obviously taking normal AA batteries is a plus, and I am thinking of getting one of those solar chargers that covers the top of your backpack (yes seriously!) Browsing the Garmin eTrex devices, I notice even the ones with a proper screen aren't all that expensive http://www.gpsw.co.uk/details/prod3549.html I could then load it up with maps that show any existing data from OSM and/or any other sources, e.g. http://www.nepalgpsmap.com/en/maps.html to keep track of how far (and high) we're going and whether or not waypoints have already been marked... From: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) ajrli...@googlemail.com To: Joe Richards ten...@penski.net; talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Thursday, 16 April, 2009 17:17:30 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking Joe, I guess it depends upon how much data you want. There must be some slow burn loggers that would do it but probably trackpoint spacing might be high. Personally I'd probably go with a rugged eTrex, a modern one with an SD card to carry the daily traces it writes. My legend will last all day on a pair of rechargeable AA's (2500's or above) so you would just need to carry a few sets of fully charged AA's to get you through. You could then have tracks at 1 sec interval for the whole of your trek. Cheers Andy -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Joe Richards Sent: 16 April 2009 4:56 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking I will be trekking in Nepal later this year, and would like to keep some nice GPX trails and waypoints (both on the trekking trails and in the towns/roads), since it looks relatively unmapped... I usually use a windows mobile device with a bluetooth GPS but this strikes me as way to flimsy and the battery life would be far too short. What is my best option given the requirements of: * reasonable robustness - ie can be put in the top pocket of a backpack and forgotten about for a day, even if I slip over or sling my bag around * excellent battery life, ideally a few days' tracking before a recharge (although I could carry other power sources, I'd rather not) * a little feedback, not just a GPS 'brick' - e.g. a display and/or the ability to enter waypoint names would be nice ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] best GPS for trekking
I have a 2GB SD card in my Legend and have the whole OSM map of Europe plus a year of tracklogs on it and there is still room for loads more. One micro SD card should be more than enough for your trip. What's the best way to load OSM or convert maps on the Garmins, and ideally include terrain heights, possibly overlay information from other sources so that I can get some useful info in areas where OSM coverage is not (yet!) that great? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NZ LINZ data import and attribution
It appears to be hanging on a minor technicality, ie attribution of the datasource. Since this is potentially a huge advance for New Zealand mapping, what is exactly the sticking point, ie do LINZ really require a notification on the map while being browsed? Or is just having the attribution on a message somewhere (e.g. a wiki page, or even a link to that page as an attribute on each node/way etc)? The distinction is fairly important here, since attributions are common elsewhere too. For example there is a Berkley University attribution tucked away in all copies of Windows to acknowledg the use of the TCP/IP stack. The big problem with all these data sets that require attribution is not adding the attribution (though that may be an issue if it needs to be recorded on each object we derive from it) but making sure that nobody deletes that attribution in the future. Exactly. If you look at the first couple of zoom levels, especially on Osmarender, they are derived from every data source we have. If we have to credit them all, there may end up no space on the screen for the map. Also, what about mapping software for blind people, like loadstone http://www.loadstone-gps.com/. How often should it read out the attribution? I think this might be taking attribution too literally. Just because Google Maps does this for the copyright holder, doesn't mean that LINZ insists on the same. Can anyone substantiate that LINZ actually require this to be on-screen at all times when LINZ data is viewed? I believe all they want is the attribution somewhere and to limit liability. As for how to tag these attributes, I believe it was nicely summarised here: quote source=http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-April/024900.html; I may be missing something, but why would we need to introduce a read- only attribution tag if we already have it? It's the source tag of the first version of an object, in http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/objtype/id/history /quote ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] NZ LINZ data import and attribution
A more serious problem with that would probably be that OSM in turn would have to require anyone who reuses OSM data to also show the attribution on the map. This would make OSM practically useless for users such as GPS vendors, and also would have to be mentioned in license terms. So I think we simply can't accept data from donors who ask that the acknowledgement be always visible. This seems to have been discussed (and I think put to rest) already: quote source=http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2008-April/025079.html; Actually *every* published map that uses OSM data, including OSM's own maps must satisfy the attribution requirement. That's what the BY clause in the CC-BY-SA means. Anyone publishing OSM data must provide attribution: You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor is what Creative Commons actually says. The attribution page on the wiki at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Attribution would seem like a simple and convenient way of achieving this. /quote quote source=http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2008-March/000865.html; and that we have no control over the use of map tiles on other sites. All we can do is ensure the source of the data when imported on the individual nodes and ways is clearly attributed and that the donating organisation gets prominent attribution via the blogs and wiki. not our responsibility - the data is available from numerous sources, none of whom are required to police it's use. neither are we /quote ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] NZ LINZ data import and attribution
I have been doing some mapping in New Zealand recently, and came across the page which discusses a potential import of all the roads and streets in New Zealand in one fell swoop, thanks to Land Information New Zealand/LINZ giving the go-ahead for this. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/LINZ It appears to be hanging on a minor technicality, ie attribution of the datasource. Since this is potentially a huge advance for New Zealand mapping, what is exactly the sticking point, ie do LINZ really require a notification on the map while being browsed? Or is just having the attribution on a message somewhere (e.g. a wiki page, or even a link to that page as an attribute on each node/way etc)? The distinction is fairly important here, since attributions are common elsewhere too. For example there is a Berkley University attribution tucked away in all copies of Windows to acknowledg the use of the TCP/IP stack. If this is actually stuck, can someone please update the wiki page with a summary of the stumbling block? It doesn't seem clear from the wiki page what LINZ really want, since the attribution text can be included somewhere in the dataset or linked from it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Openstreetmap iPhone app
I've got an iPhone dev certificate and a mac - but to be honest, you can just install the open toolchain, or if you really must - osx86 (aka hackintosh) - and develop on that... From: Ian Dees [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OSM Talk talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Friday, 14 November, 2008 19:54:15 Subject: [OSM-talk] Openstreetmap iPhone app (Woops, gotta send to the list...) On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Nick Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any budding iPhone developers out there want to take up the challenge? I would absolutely love to work on this, but I don't have a Mac to do any of the development on. I can compile stuff for unofficial use, but I'd rather go the official route. Do you think anyone out there would be willing to donate a few bucks to fund half of a Mac Mini or some other cheap Intel Mac and a iPhone dev license? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Openstreetmap iPhone app
You can get python installed if your iphone is jailbroken via the Cydia installer (apt-get Debian style but for the iPhone). I think you're imagining a slippy map via the browser though right? The problem is that when you drag on the browser, it scrolls the view (rather than activating a mouse-down event, which would scroll the map). = On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 01:41:56PM +0100, John07 wrote: I thought of the same thing many times in the past. Such a app would be very cool. There are also the some webapps for a slippy map, but the usability isn?t that good. Has the iphone python? Check pymap in the svn repository, it is basically a slippy map that will cache all the downloaded tiles. It should be easy to add a downloader for a certain region for predownloading. But it has the same functionality/usability as a stock slippy map. spaetz ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Openstreetmap iPhone app
Anyone who has played with an iPhone will have seen the Google maps application, which provides much of the functionality of the Javascript web app, while giving quite a good tactile feel It also uses wireless triangulation - or if available, GPS - to show search results for things that are near you. Is there any project to create a similar application for the iPhone that uses OSM maps and data sources? I think it would be an excellent way to introduce OSM to people who have never seen it... I would imagine the existing functionality of the Google Maps application, plus maybe the ability to do some small-scale editing such as adding nodes for things like amenities while you're out and about... Searching for existing apps showed me that some people have stuffed some openstreetmap tiles into the GMap application on the iPhone (basically a hack, replacing the cached tiles) - but that isn't the same as having global coverage, and making the app available via the AppStore (or iTunes) would present a huge new audience. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] best practice examples in the wiki
It would be useful if there were some common mapping scenarios in the wiki, as a library of examples of common problems encountered and their efficient solution, almost like a story rather than a tag dictionary. This could include information like: * the way the data was captured (type of GPS at the time, notes kept, software used, survey strategy/pattern) * a few photos of the type 'scene' since some geographical features are called the same thing but look a bit different in different places/countries/instances * tools used to map it, including some detail on which features were best captured/checked in each tool, videos for that scenario if available * a bit of a story on the types of tagging used, stuff like whether nodes or ways were shared or split etc * decisions made, e.g. clustering or spreading of features * resulting map fragment in various renderers - showing what is good about this setup * any notes on how well this information is used in current routing software It could be a great library for people who are starting out to see some of the more common tricks of the trade and get some inspiration towards elegant results. If you have anything like this already on your personal wiki User pages why not share the link? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] elephant trekking
I am putting in a tourist attraction - elephant trekking in Thailand - since it's the kind of thing that when you visit you would want to know about, but how do I tag it? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
