Re: [OSM-talk] AI With Satellite Images for OpenStreetMap

[ajt1...@gmail.com]

On 10/02/2018 20:52, john whelan wrote:

My personal reaction is this is frightening.

Already we have buildings mapped twice and unless the import is done 
very very carefully I can see problems ahead.




This sort of thing has been tried before, with varying degrees of 
success.  Facebook tried to import some "roads" in Egypt (for a bit of 
background see 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/41096427#map=11/29.9540/31.0432 
and https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Chetan_Gowda/diary/39149 , and 
links from those).  Much of it needed to be reverted, because quite a 
lot of "straight lines with colour differences" got interpreted as 
"residential roads" when they were actually walls or drainage ditches.


The import in Thailand is discussed at 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57942 , and there are 
still ongoing issues with the quality there (such as 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=684197#p684197 ). That 
last one https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/556830183 is a particularly 
interesting case because I suspect that many "experienced armchair 
mappers" would make the same mistake there - thinking that the road 
continues and not noticing the fence (visible on only 1 of the 3 
available OSM imagery sources).  I suspect that 99% of relatively 
inexperienced mapathon participants would make the same mistake.


The jury's still out on the overall benefits of the Facebook Thailand 
work - see e.g. 
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=684270#p684270 in that 
thread, but it's definitely worth mentioning some of the things that 
they got right there (in some cases, only after a bit of prodding):


 * Imported data clearly marked so that data consumers can process it
   differently if they wish, like JOSM does with raw TIGER data.
 * Engage in a dialogue with the local community in the local
   community's forum.
 * Mappers with OSM user pages that explain who they're working for and
   who (at least sometimes) do respond to changeset discussion comments.

However, before we get carried away it's worth remembering that none of 
the examples on 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jremillard/diary/43294 are actually 
imports - they're things like QA and targetted Maproulette tasks.  It's 
now up to the community to suggest use cases.  If someone tries an 
undiscussed import without following the policy they should rightly be 
stopped as Facebook were in Egypt.


Best Regards,
Andy (from the DWG, but writing in a personal capacity)
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] AI With Satellite Images for OpenStreetMap

[Nicolás Alvarez]

El 10 feb. 2018, a la(s) 17:52, john whelan  escribió:

> My personal reaction is this is frightening.
> 
> Already we have buildings mapped twice and unless the import is done very 
> very carefully I can see problems ahead.

That's why we have an import policy. Most of the problems I have seen with 
imports would be prevented if people actually followed it.

> AI and imagery isn't perfect.  Throw in LiDAR or different frequency imagery 
> and it might get a little more accurate.  Still having said that there seems 
> to be a large number of Buildings mapped in Africa at Mapathons that seem to 
> be of poor quality and if it was better than that the over all data quality 
> might improve.
> 
> What it does do is identify an area of concern.  In Canada my understanding 
> is some sort of automated or semi automated building outline mapping is being 
> done by NRC and will be released shortly under an Open Data license that has 
> been approved by the LWG.  These I might trust, an experimental algorithm on 
> less than perfect imagery I might be more wary of.  
> 
> Cheerio John
> 
>> On 10 February 2018 at 15:34, Jason Remillard  
>> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Microsoft this week granted permission to use the Bing satellite images for 
>> nonprofit AI projects that are contributing to OSM. Mapbox has indicated 
>> that they are also on board  (with some conditions/restrictions). I think 
>> this pretty big deal for OSM. If you are interested in this kind of stuff, I 
>> wrote a longish diary entry about what it might mean.
>> 
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jremillard/diary/43294
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> talk@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>> 
> 
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] AI With Satellite Images for OpenStreetMap

[john whelan]

My personal reaction is this is frightening.

Already we have buildings mapped twice and unless the import is done very
very carefully I can see problems ahead.

AI and imagery isn't perfect.  Throw in LiDAR or different frequency
imagery and it might get a little more accurate.  Still having said that
there seems to be a large number of Buildings mapped in Africa at Mapathons
that seem to be of poor quality and if it was better than that the over all
data quality might improve.

What it does do is identify an area of concern.  In Canada my understanding
is some sort of automated or semi automated building outline mapping is
being done by NRC and will be released shortly under an Open Data license
that has been approved by the LWG.  These I might trust, an experimental
algorithm on less than perfect imagery I might be more wary of.

Cheerio John

On 10 February 2018 at 15:34, Jason Remillard 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Microsoft this week granted permission to use the Bing satellite images
> for nonprofit AI projects that are contributing to OSM. Mapbox has
> indicated that they are also on board  (with some conditions/restrictions).
> I think this pretty big deal for OSM. If you are interested in this kind of
> stuff, I wrote a longish diary entry about what it might mean.
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jremillard/diary/43294
>
> Jason
>
>
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
>
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] AI With Satellite Images for OpenStreetMap

[Jason Remillard]

Hi,

Microsoft this week granted permission to use the Bing satellite images for
nonprofit AI projects that are contributing to OSM. Mapbox has indicated
that they are also on board  (with some conditions/restrictions). I think
this pretty big deal for OSM. If you are interested in this kind of stuff,
I wrote a longish diary entry about what it might mean.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/jremillard/diary/43294

Jason
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk