Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```2010/6/6 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com:
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that
defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by
using relations(?)

Yup that is how I think also. Still no complete solution, but probably
worth refining this, as a start:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area

yes, this is indeed one possible usage of this proposal: you could map
the beginning and end of each continuous steps. (this is 2 lines: one
indicating the lower end and one way following the upper end. In the
middle (horizontal areas with no elevation = landing) you could define
them as such (without even redrawing the ways). This enables as well
to map curved/multiangled steps, but still is problematic in cases,
where the steps intersect with a diversely inclined terrain (therefore
resulting in different amount of steps on the left and on the right
side). In the relation you could enter additional information
(steps=15) for the number of steps, to define it in ultimate detail
(optionally). Unfortunately no current renderer or router is able to
use this.

Note that this will still not be a perfect solution for the
semi-circular steps/terraces, because a way + area will not define the
curve in each step.

yes, they will in many/most (exceptions see above) cases (according to
the area proposal you don't map areas as closed polygons).

To do this explicitly, you'd probably want to
map each step individually (as a curved way),

you would do this following the area-proposal, but you would probably
reduce it from each step to each first and last step of a
continuity of steps.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```2010/6/7 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
Interesting problem. Seems related to the general how to map a street
as an area without sacrificing the properties of streets problem. Use
an area, and a relation, with the relation specifying which way(s) are
the top and bottom?

+1, as long as the lateral sides are straight, this could be solved
with 2 ways (one above and one below) and the area-relation (no yet
defined for steps). In case of curved sided it would be required to
enter them as well

cheers
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```On 6 June 2010 12:21, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:
highway=steps area=yes?

A very good question posed by Alex. I have a few wide steps (~50m) in my
city.

It's a good start for a solution from Nathan, but it would need a
direction tag in order for the renderers to know which way the steps
went up  down.

we could adopt something similar to how waterway=riverbank and
waterway=river are used together. an area to mark the outline of the
steps; a single way to mark the 'direction' of them

A similar(ish) problem was brought up recently regarding routing over
pedestrian areas. They don't have an intrinsic direction in the way that
linear ways do. Was a solution found?

does it matter? i'm not sure an area has a 'way' through it. by
definition, pedestrians can take any route across this, including
walking round in circles for hours on end. i assume when we mark it as
area=yes, any decent routing engine will treat the area as something
pedestrians can walk through by the shortest route

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```Zitat Dave F.:

Nathan Edgars II wrote:
Alexander Menk wrote:

is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

highway=steps area=yes?

A very good question posed by Alex. I have a few wide steps (~50m) in my
city.

It's a good start for a solution from Nathan,

IMHO highway=steps area=yes is the easiest way to mark steps as area.
Unfortunately no renderer show it and routing applications will have also
problems without a additional way element. But this should not prevent us
from tagging steps as a area.

but it would need a
direction tag in order for the renderers to know which way the steps
went up  down.

I wonder where is a really need for this information. Do you have a example?

A similar(ish) problem was brought up recently regarding routing over
pedestrian areas. They don't have an intrinsic direction in the way that
linear ways do. Was a solution found?

Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that
defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by
using relations(?)

If steps come up as a connection between other way elements, i think we need
such a line element anyway. For example we can put a relevant information on
the node represent the top of our step and doing the same on the other end.
I wonder how to teach a renderer drawing highway=steps area=yes in a way,
everybody will recognize it as such on a map. Maybe it is easy on square
shapes, but what about half circles or waves?
Just a idea: split the boundary in a top line, a bottom line and side lines
and put it together with the way element mentioned above in a relation...

--
Michael

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 10:21 AM, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote:

Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that
defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by
using relations(?)

Yup that is how I think also. Still no complete solution, but probably
worth refining this, as a start:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Area

Note that this will still not be a perfect solution for the
semi-circular steps/terraces, because a way + area will not define the
curve in each step. To do this explicitly, you'd probably want to
map each step individually (as a curved way), with something like

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```Interesting problem. Seems related to the general how to map a street
as an area without sacrificing the properties of streets problem. Use
an area, and a relation, with the relation specifying which way(s) are
the top and bottom?

Steve

On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Alexander Menk
menk-you.should.remove.this.for.permanent.cont...@mestrona.net
wrote:
Hi!

is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

This is what I am talking about:

And here the area on OSM:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8110597

Alexander

I see what you mean.  Our simplified center line for stairs don't
really give a very rich impression of that area.  The same problem, on
a smaller scale exists here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aerial_view_of_Lincoln_Memorial_-_east_side_EDIT.jpeg

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.889246lon=-77.049897zoom=18

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[OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```Hi!

is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

This is what I am talking about:

And here the area on OSM:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8110597

Alexander

--

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Alexander Menk
menk-you.should.remove.this.for.permanent.cont...@mestrona.net
wrote:
Hi!

is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

This is what I am talking about:

And here the area on OSM:

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/8110597

Alexander

I see what you mean.  Our simplified center line for stairs don't
really give a very rich impression of that area.  The same problem, on
a smaller scale exists here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Aerial_view_of_Lincoln_Memorial_-_east_side_EDIT.jpeg

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=38.889246lon=-77.049897zoom=18

--

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[OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```Alexander Menk wrote:
is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

highway=steps area=yes?

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Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging wide steps (tribune / terrace)

```Nathan Edgars II wrote:
Alexander Menk wrote:

is there any better way for mapping very wide steps (100 m, half
circle) instead of putting lots of steps next to each other.

highway=steps area=yes?

A very good question posed by Alex. I have a few wide steps (~50m) in my
city.

It's a good start for a solution from Nathan, but it would need a
direction tag in order for the renderers to know which way the steps
went up  down.

A similar(ish) problem was brought up recently regarding routing over
pedestrian areas. They don't have an intrinsic direction in the way that
linear ways do. Was a solution found?

Off the top of my head I'm thinking of a line within the area that
defines the direction. it would have to be linked to the boundary by
using relations(?)

Hatch/Fill areas in CAD programs such as AutoCAD that have an angle
attribute. Does mapnik  others have a rotation angle for fills?

Cheers
Dave F.

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