Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?
The problem about proposal pages is that they can be infinitely theoretical, non-verifiable or outright insane. So telling a mapper who is thinking about inventing a new tag to search the proposals if there is one that already covers what they want to do is not practicable. Because even if there is a proposal that deals with the same kind of situation the mapper is confronted with that does not mean the proposal contains a practicable idea of how to tag this. The advisable approach to making tag documentation on the wiki better usable is IMO not to further blur the line between documentation of the de facto meaning of tags by humans and all the other uses of the wiki (like proposals, automatically assembled data etc.) but more strictly separating them. If you (theoretically - it would probably be a lot of work to do this practically) take all tagging documentation from the wiki no matter where it is and remove everything that is not strictly documenting the de facto meaning of tags in the OSM database the result would be a pretty compact body of documentation. -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?
I agree with Christoph -- every tag used in OSM data must be documented -- otherwise it has near-zero value.. Actually negative value because it confuses people -- some might want to delete it, but they don't know if it is useful, so they just leave it there almost indefinitely. In an ideal world (not limited by the current tooling), the person adding a new tag should type in an explanation why they are adding it at the same time it is added. The tools should also show the user what other similar tags are available (based on the name and the typed in description), in case the user is making a mistake and the needed tag already exists. If we agree on this vision, lets work on achieving that -- we can discuss implementation details, and I will be happy to participate in that. On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 7:23 AM Christoph Hormann wrote: > On Thursday 15 August 2019, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > > > In contrast, the current text of the wiki page "Any tags you like > > suggests creating a new tag for bird nests (as an example) with > > Key:endangered_nest=Siberian_flying_squirrel - besides suggesting > > using non-standard capitalization in the value, this suggests > > creating a new Key: / Tag: page directly, rather than using > > User:username/ or Proposed_features/. > > > > Is this a good idea? Occasionally new wiki pages are created in > > these standard spaces for tags with only a few uses or no uses in the > > database. > > Yes, IMO it is not only acceptable to document newly invented tags but > also advisable to do so. Note however inventing tags in this context > means actively using them, not theoretical inventions along the lines > of "I would like mappers to tag things this way therefore i document > the tag as if it was being used". Elaborate tagging schemes should be > discussed before being used and not be invented ad hoc by individual > mappers. > > The reason is - as you mentioned - the "Any tags you like" principle. > It means you can and should invent new tags for *things no tag exists > for so far*. To allow mappers to determine if there is already an > existing tag for a certain type of feature tags have to be documented. > Or looking at things the other way round: If inventing new tags is > encouraged but it is discouraged to document them in a way that can be > easily found by other mappers that would massively emphasize tag > proliferation since mappers will repeatedly invent new and different > tags for certain things because they are unaware that another mapper > has already invented a tag for this. > > -- > Christoph Hormann > http://www.imagico.de/ > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > tagg...@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Document personal tags in Proposed_features/ space, User: space, or Tag:/Key: space?
I agree that they should be documented. It's true that it can be hard to find proposal page features when searching the wiki, but I find it hard to find anything with the current search feature (often it's easier to use taginfo and find the wiki links that way). There was a suggestion back in March to have proposal pages start with a Proposal: namespace instead of Proposed_features/ - perhaps this namespace could be included in wiki searches by default? And taginfo could take information from the Proposal Page template, in addition to Description (assuming it doesn't already?). - Joseph On 8/15/19, Christoph Hormann wrote: > On Thursday 15 August 2019, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: >> >> In contrast, the current text of the wiki page "Any tags you like >> suggests creating a new tag for bird nests (as an example) with >> Key:endangered_nest=Siberian_flying_squirrel - besides suggesting >> using non-standard capitalization in the value, this suggests >> creating a new Key: / Tag: page directly, rather than using >> User:username/ or Proposed_features/. >> >> Is this a good idea? Occasionally new wiki pages are created in >> these standard spaces for tags with only a few uses or no uses in the >> database. > > Yes, IMO it is not only acceptable to document newly invented tags but > also advisable to do so. Note however inventing tags in this context > means actively using them, not theoretical inventions along the lines > of "I would like mappers to tag things this way therefore i document > the tag as if it was being used". Elaborate tagging schemes should be > discussed before being used and not be invented ad hoc by individual > mappers. > > The reason is - as you mentioned - the "Any tags you like" principle. > It means you can and should invent new tags for *things no tag exists > for so far*. To allow mappers to determine if there is already an > existing tag for a certain type of feature tags have to be documented. > Or looking at things the other way round: If inventing new tags is > encouraged but it is discouraged to document them in a way that can be > easily found by other mappers that would massively emphasize tag > proliferation since mappers will repeatedly invent new and different > tags for certain things because they are unaware that another mapper > has already invented a tag for this. > > -- > Christoph Hormann > http://www.imagico.de/ > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > tagg...@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
