No one seems to have mentioned that any OSM API update could potentially
break thousands of applications yet we still update it if needed. For
example, the change to API 0.5 broke every tool, renderer or app that still
assumed segments exist. (Then again, for this example, it was easier to
change
Ross Scanlon wrote:
Total time 6 minutes
Hundreds of hours, yeah right.
So you've also updated every user of mkgmap who uses a customised style
file too? That should add a few to the 20 or so (or whatever number
were mentioned before). Each change is of the same order as the one
that
On 3 August 2010 05:51, SomeoneElse li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk wrote:
We've seen recently how people responding to disasters have used OSM data on
handheld devices - someone right now could quite possibly be using such a
map to try and deal with, say, the floods in Pakistan. If that map is
Am 31.07.2010 14:00, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis:
2010/7/31 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
4) Change it in every map renderer / router / other software that is out
there - hundreds (or already even thousands?) of applications
Really hunderds and thousands? I think it is more in tens
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:08:10 +0200
Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am 31.07.2010 14:00, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis:
2010/7/31 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
4) Change it in every map renderer / router / other software that is out
there - hundreds (or already even
2010/8/1 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
...
I know all costs,
I have doubts about that.
Ok, maybe I'm wrong (that's why I won't even try to change things
without consensus), but return to root of all this - do you agree that
we keep amenity=fire_hydrant and do nothing about it or we
On 2 August 2010 00:47, Peteris Krisjanis pec...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, maybe I'm wrong (that's why I won't even try to change things
without consensus), but return to root of all this - do you agree that
we keep amenity=fire_hydrant and do nothing about it or we try to
introduce emergency=* at
Am 01.08.2010 16:40, schrieb Ross Scanlon:
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:08:10 +0200
Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am 31.07.2010 14:00, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis:
2010/7/31 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
Please remember, that it's not done to change only the software (e.g.
2010/8/1 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
Am 01.08.2010 16:40, schrieb Ross Scanlon:
On Sun, 01 Aug 2010 16:08:10 +0200
Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote:
Am 31.07.2010 14:00, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis:
2010/7/31 Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
Please remember,
Both the police and ambulance service spend a lot of their time on
non-emergency items as do hospitals, doctors, etc. If you want to write an
app that lists the police under an emergencies menu/button then go ahead
but you don't need to change the OSM data to do it.
Kevin
On 30 July 2010
2010/7/31 Kevin Peat ke...@kevinpeat.com:
Both the police and ambulance service spend a lot of their time on
non-emergency items as do hospitals, doctors, etc. If you want to write an
app that lists the police under an emergencies menu/button then go ahead
but you don't need to change the OSM
Am 31.07.2010 11:19, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis:
If that can be solved introducing meaningful new name spaces like
emergency, which could give easy way to filter emergency items, why
not? What is cost of this?
1) Changing it in wiki - one day tops
2) Changing it in db - mass convertation, doable
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Total time 6 minutes
Hundreds of hours, yeah right.
What you have given is an absolute minimum time for someone who
already understands to actually edit the files. You've skipped
research, testing and deployment.
The
2010/7/31 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
Am 31.07.2010 11:19, schrieb Peteris Krisjanis:
If that can be solved introducing meaningful new name spaces like
emergency, which could give easy way to filter emergency items, why
not? What is cost of this?
1) Changing it in wiki - one day
On Saturday 31 July 2010 14:00:40 Peteris Krisjanis wrote:
Teaching each and every mapper out there that the tag has changed and
they should no longer use the old one (not every mapper uses presets).
And they never never never read wiki, or follow OSM news?
Actually if this thread was not
Work out why it doesn't appear (5 min - your patch is actually very
slightly wrong btw, can you spot your mistake?)
Spotted my friday afternoon coding did you. Glad to see someones on the ball!!
However the above is just for fun - lets replace my original statement
with 'a lot of time' and
On 31 July 2010 22:47, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Sounds sensible to me, I'm busy tracing new nearmap imagery.
With extremely useful changeset comments? :)
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Cartinus wrote:
And nobody puts
all Key: and Tag: pages in his wiki watchlist.
Use one of the feeds (eg RSS) and it is easy.
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On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:42:50AM +1000, Ross Scanlon wrote:
The renderer does not require any change, the only changes required
are moving the amenity=police icon to be the emergency=police_station
icon (which is a 30 second job) and creating an appropriate emergency
parent icon (and there's
On 30 July 2010 16:51, Jacek Konieczny jaj...@jajcus.net wrote:
Provided the program is maintained. People may use programs not
maintained any more or they may be not able to upgrade or they wouldn't
know they need to upgrade. Things will just stop working for them,
without a notice.
Is this
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:06:14 +1000
John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 July 2010 16:51, Jacek Konieczny jaj...@jajcus.net wrote:
Provided the program is maintained. People may use programs not
maintained any more or they may be not able to upgrade or they wouldn't
know they
I don't understand this argument. Doesn't every tag change anywhere break
every editor/renderer/search/data user whether or not you think it is
correct?
John has just as much right to go change all the amenity= tags to something
more specific as you do to keep them the same. Data consumers
On 30 July 2010 21:15, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote:
Every Smartphone OSM data consumer I've looked at has been unusable because
of tagging interpretation. Compared to OSM, data consumers seem to be very
inflexible and unaware of any but the most rigid tag schemes that haven't
changed in
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Better yet - just don't change it. This sort of change just isn't
worth the pain and hundreds of developer hours that could be better
spent on moving the project forward. Yes - this sort of change might
make the tag
I thought most smart phone apps would mostly view map tiles, either
OSM or Cloudmade?
There are several apps now for the iPhone which also search POIs. Some
examples:
-JOSM allows tagging whether banks include an ATM - I select this when
the ATM is attached to the building or inside
Well done. Pretty much none of the others do. I look forward to your
patches :)
Heres the patch for the default.style for osm2pgsql
node,way emergency text nocache,polygon
Wasn't worth a diff patch as it's only one line. (30 seconds)
Mapnik for instance has manual rules -
Hi,
Ross Scanlon wrote:
Filter[emergency] = 'police_station'/Filter
What does a police station have to do with emergencies? Are you going to
tag the UN headquarters next because they run international disaster relief?
Bye
Frederik
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Where the same thing is being tagged in different ways then by all means
spend your energy trying to unify them as that ulitmately benefits all data
consumers and reduces scope for mapper confusion.
In the case of hospital or fire_station though I don't see the point of
these changes. In these
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:40 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
Just to drag things back on topic, so far most claims seem to be vague
and generalised, however the original proposal about shifting police
and fire into an emergency category doesn't seem to have many/any of
the draw
On 30 July 2010 16:26, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Total time 6 minutes
Hundreds of hours, yeah right.
The program I've been talking about uses osm2pgsql and mapnik so I'm well
aware of them.
If your smart you could probably add the emergency data without having to
totally
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Emilie Laffray
emilie.laff...@gmail.comwrote:
While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people
working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means
that every one doing an app needs to do some significant work to
On 30 July 2010 17:14, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com
wrote:
While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people
working in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means
that
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:30 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:
How is the OpenStreetMap community to distinguish these edits from
vandalism, and you from a vandal?
Considering I didn't make any of the changes you are accusing me of I
fail to see the problem.
You did...
John,
John Smith wrote:
why can't there be better tools to summarise or model changes
One of my points in the other discussion what that writing proper
changeset comments also means showing respect to the rest of the
community. Showing respect, interacting with humans, is something that
no
On 31 July 2010 03:43, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
Here's an example of a change you claim you haven't made:
No, I claimed to have made those, as I pointed out to you in a
previous reply, what exactly was so important about these locations
that no one could be bothered to spend 2
John Smith wrote:
On 31 July 2010 02:05, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working
in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that
What change, I have made a suggestion and was
On 31 July 2010 03:34, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
It appears that you have indeed made lots of changes in the database before
discussing on the list:
e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/771625043/history
Hmmm thought I fixed that by reverting that changeset... I'll fix it
now
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:25 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote:
On 31 July 2010 02:05, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people
working
in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means
On 31 July 2010 02:05, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
While I follow this mailing list, I am pretty sure that many people working
in the OSM ecosystem is not following the change that fast. It means that
What change, I have made a suggestion and was after comments, so far
some
On 31 July 2010 02:03, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
John Smith, your method stinks.
What stinks specifically, you even seem to agree in your next paragraph.
You seem to believe that your preferred tag of emergency=fire_station,
etc is better. Rather than adding your preferred tags
On 31 July 2010 03:48, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
One of my points in the other discussion what that writing proper changeset
comments also means showing respect to the rest of the community. Showing
respect, interacting with humans, is something that no piece of software can
do
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 1:30 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote:
On 31 July 2010 02:03, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
John Smith, your method stinks.
What stinks specifically, you even seem to agree in your next paragraph.
You seem to believe that your preferred tag of
On 31 July 2010 04:17, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
You are contradicting yourself, John Smith. You replaced
amenity=ambulance_station with your emergency=ambulance_station. This
is unnecessary and inappropriate without wide community support.
Since no one bothered to document this
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Hi,
Ross Scanlon wrote:
Filter[emergency] = 'police_station'/Filter
What does a police station have to do with emergencies? Are you going to
tag the UN headquarters next because they run international disaster
relief?
Bye
Frederik
Well
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 17:05:19 +0100
Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote:
On 30 July 2010 16:26, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
Total time 6 minutes
Hundreds of hours, yeah right.
The program I've been talking about uses osm2pgsql and mapnik so I'm well
aware of
Ross Scanlon wrote:
Then show why and where they don't make sense rather than carrying on about
possible broken apps.
Easy:
amenity=hospital emergency=yes
when replaced with emergency=hospital results in lost data.
Jon
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John Smith wrote:
On 29 July 2010 20:21, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote:
1st October 2010
Gives time to get the rendering resolved.
Does anyone have a problem, or see any problems, shifting the
following tags into the emergency=* tag space?
amenity=police -
On 30 July 2010 02:59, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
Firstly, not all hospitals are emergency hospitals, so I think that is a bad
idea.
Point taken...
Secondly John, you seem to have unilaterally decided to make this change,
and actually implemented some of it in the course of an
John Smith wrote:
On 30 July 2010 02:59, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
Firstly, not all hospitals are emergency hospitals, so I think that is a bad
idea.
Point taken...
Secondly John, you seem to have unilaterally decided to make this change,
and actually implemented some
On 30 July 2010 03:35, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote:
You have already changed amenity=ambulance_station to
emergency=ambulance_station, which was not listed above, so you have already
started to make these worldwide changes.
It wasn't documented at all on the wiki, at all, so if it was
Discussing this for a day on the Tagging list is not enough for you to make
this change.
How much time should it take? I didn't really set a dead line but was
trying to get comments on the idea...
A change that breaks every editor / renderer / search data user ?
6 months minimum before you
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Brian Quinion
openstreet...@brian.quinion.co.uk wrote:
Discussing this for a day on the Tagging list is not enough for you to
make
this change.
How much time should it take? I didn't really set a dead line but was
trying to get comments on the idea...
On 30 July 2010 04:09, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't understand this argument. Doesn't every tag change anywhere break
every editor/renderer/search/data user whether or not you think it is
correct?
It's slightly amusing how it comes up every now and then about what to
do about
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 7:09 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:00 PM, Brian Quinion
openstreet...@brian.quinion.co.uk wrote:
Discussing this for a day on the Tagging list is not enough for you to
make
this change.
How much time should it take? I didn't
If there IS a change for medical stuff, I would personally rather see
the medical=* proposal be used.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Medical
Hospitals could be medical=hospital and emergency=yes/no to take care
of the is this an emergency hospital concern.
Then I guess a
On 30 July 2010 04:54, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote:
If there IS a change for medical stuff, I would personally rather see
the medical=* proposal be used.
At this stage it'd be nice to sort out the emergency=* issue before
trying to tackle anything else :)
I agree with Chris that it
Better yet - just don't change it. This sort of change just isn't
worth the pain and hundreds of developer hours that could be better
spent on moving the project forward. Yes - this sort of change might
make the tag heirachy prettier - but not enough to justify the work.
Garbage.
It's not
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