Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
As a way why not but not as en area. There is same comportment on barrier=bollard with a succession of bollard crossing a way. You need intersect barrier with highway to perform good tracking and set access (foot=yes and/or not bicycle=yes) barrier=* are implicitly no access for all trip type. Le jeu. 16 août 2018 à 19:43, Tobias Knerr a écrit : > On 15.08.2018 20:49, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: > > Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As > > blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be > > allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. > > For routing purposes, barriers are usually connected to the highway=* > way somehow. When barriers are mapped as nodes, this is achieved by > tagging one of the way's nodes with the barrier tags. > > How would we do this for barrier=block mapped as areas? > > Note that the block(s) will not always be exactly on the centerline of > the highway, so we may not be able to even share a node between the area > outline and the highway way if we want to accurately represent the area > covered by the block. Due to this, I see no easy solution to map blocks > as areas while still making them topologically part of the routing network. > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
On 24/08/18 03:49, Philip Barnes wrote: On Fri, 2018-08-17 at 07:51 +1000, Warin wrote: If the thought is to map a group of blocks as an area .. then my vote is no at least without more information. It raises the question as to what the level of obstruction is - are motorcycles bared by this barrier? Horses? How badly are pedestrians impeded? What about people in wheelchairs? So there needs to be a scale of impediment. Thinking a bit more, the block effectively is creating a width restriction so maybe map the paths between them along with any signed access restrictions and add a width tag to indicate how wide the gap is? Am thinking of signed restrictions as many bollarded cycleways have a no motor vehicle restriction to prohibit motorcycles that would otherwise be able to path through the gaps. +1 There are also restrictions in gates - some are rather small. As OSM has max:height then that suggest the use of max:width to state these width restrictions? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
On Fri, 2018-08-17 at 07:51 +1000, Warin wrote: > If the thought is to map a group of > blocks as an area .. then my vote is no at least without more > information. > > It raises the question as to what the level of obstruction is - > are motorcycles bared by this barrier? Horses? How badly are > pedestrians impeded? What about people in wheelchairs? > > So there needs to be a scale of impediment. > > Thinking a bit more, the block effectively is creating a width restriction so maybe map the paths between them along with any signed access restrictions and add a width tag to indicate how wide the gap is? Am thinking of signed restrictions as many bollarded cycleways have a no motor vehicle restriction to prohibit motorcycles that would otherwise be able to path through the gaps. Phil (trigpoint) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
If the thought is to map a group of blocks as an area .. then my vote is no at least without more information. It raises the question as to what the level of obstruction is - are motorcycles bared by this barrier? Horses? How badly are pedestrians impeded? What about people in wheelchairs? So there needs to be a scale of impediment. On 17/08/18 02:57, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: An use case for allow mapping barrier=block as asreas is a better visualisation of a landcoverage. Mapping aeral objects as a nodes makes the map a little bit lied. -- Wiadomość oryginalna -- Od: "Philip Barnes" mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk>> Do: talk@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org>; "David Fox" <mailto:davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>>; "Tomasz Wójcik" <mailto:tom...@wp.pl>> Data: 16.08.2018 10:05:11 Temat: Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas Hedges can certainly be areas, some can be a few metres thick. A common mapping scenario is a thick hedge and a stile at each side. The only way to represent this is to map as an area and map the stiles as nodes connected to the outline. Phil (trigpoint) On 16 August 2018 01:14:49 BST, David Fox mailto:davefoxfa...@btinternet.com>> wrote: Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for them. Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area. On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik mailto:tom...@wp.pl>> wrote: Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock Block examples: http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg Barriers with mapping as area allowed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
On 15.08.2018 20:49, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: > Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As > blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be > allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. For routing purposes, barriers are usually connected to the highway=* way somehow. When barriers are mapped as nodes, this is achieved by tagging one of the way's nodes with the barrier tags. How would we do this for barrier=block mapped as areas? Note that the block(s) will not always be exactly on the centerline of the highway, so we may not be able to even share a node between the area outline and the highway way if we want to accurately represent the area covered by the block. Due to this, I see no easy solution to map blocks as areas while still making them topologically part of the routing network. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
An use case for allow mapping barrier=block as asreas is a better visualisation of a landcoverage. Mapping aeral objects as a nodes makes the map a little bit lied. -- Wiadomość oryginalna -- Od: "Philip Barnes" Do: talk@openstreetmap.org; "David Fox" ; "Tomasz Wójcik" Data: 16.08.2018 10:05:11 Temat: Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas Hedges can certainly be areas, some can be a few metres thick. A common mapping scenario is a thick hedge and a stile at each side. The only way to represent this is to map as an area and map the stiles as nodes connected to the outline. Phil (trigpoint) On 16 August 2018 01:14:49 BST, David Fox wrote: Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for them. Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area. On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock Block examples: http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg Barriers with mapping as area allowed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
Hedges can certainly be areas, some can be a few metres thick. A common mapping scenario is a thick hedge and a stile at each side. The only way to represent this is to map as an area and map the stiles as nodes connected to the outline. Phil (trigpoint) On 16 August 2018 01:14:49 BST, David Fox wrote: >Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without >attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for >them. >Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area. > >On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: > > > >Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As >blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be >allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, >currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database. > > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock > > >Block examples: > >http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif > >http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg > > >Barriers with mapping as area allowed > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
Hi Tomasz, Could you elaborate on what would be the use-case for this approach and why that is relevant? At the moment I do not see the relevance for mappnig them as an area. Cheers, dikkenodel Van: Yves Verzonden: Thursday, August 16, 2018 8:20:59 AM Aan: talk@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas Being a closed way with area=yes does not mean they aren't connected to the underlying ways: I don't think router be bothered by this. Yves Le 16 août 2018 02:14:49 GMT+02:00, David Fox a écrit : Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for them. Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area. On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock Block examples: http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg Barriers with mapping as area allowed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
Being a closed way with area=yes does not mean they aren't connected to the underlying ways: I don't think router be bothered by this. Yves Le 16 août 2018 02:14:49 GMT+02:00, David Fox a écrit : >Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without >attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for >them. >Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area. > >On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: > > > >Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As >blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be >allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, >currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database. > > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock > > >Block examples: > >http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif > >http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg > > >Barriers with mapping as area allowed > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall > >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
On 16/08/18 09:33, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: barrier=block is intended for barriers, i.e. they block a highway. Blocks for decorative or recreational purposes arranged at squares or on the side of streets are not covered by the tag. -1 for the proposed change. Blocks are increasing used on footpaths and on entrances to squares plazas etc. They are increasing as being used as 'anti terrorist' measures. Some have some decorative features. Some have had decorative covers made for them ..as they are ugly! But they are still barriers. Don't see the necessity to map them as areas. To zoom in that small would loose the surroundings. But if you want to. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
Barriers, by definition, provide some level of restriction. Without attaching them in some form it becomes hard for routers to account for them. Hedges and walls are linear in nature, not an area. On 15 August 2018, at 19:51, Tomasz Wójcik wrote: Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock Block examples: http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg Barriers with mapping as area allowed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
barrier=block is intended for barriers, i.e. they block a highway. Blocks for decorative or recreational purposes arranged at squares or on the side of streets are not covered by the tag. -1 for the proposed change. Cheers, Martin___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Barrier=block areas
Currently, barrier=block is not allowed to be mapped as an area. As blocks can be big enough to map them as areas, I think it should be allowed, the same as in barrier=wall or barrier=hedge. Anyway, currently we have 3,9k of barrier=block areas in database. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dblock Block examples: http://www.concrete-barriers-blocks.co.uk/up/concrete-barrier-type-m-block-photo.gif http://cdn1.codziennypoznan.pl/201606241325/pub/img/full/71/1c58d-a9.jpg Barriers with mapping as area allowed https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:barrier=wall https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Abarrier%3Dhedge___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
