Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-12-04 Thread Paul Norman 

On 12/2/2015 2:12 PM, Jean-Guilhem Cailton wrote:
It also happens that I have stopped renewing my membership to the OSMF 
after an election where a candidate was excluded from the vote because 
his views on a controversial subject (related to license change) were 
strongly different from those of the majority of the previous Board. 
Note that Mr. Maron was already a member of this outgoing Board, that 
had a conception of basic democracy different from mine, according to 
which it should have been up to the voters not to vote for a candidate 
if they didn't agree with his views. So, anyway, I cannot write to 
that list.


Although I wasn't on the board at the time, I was around then, and the 
situation was a bit different.


In 2012 two people tried to run for board without being members (i.e. 
they couldn't), and then someone tried to pay or register for their 
membership on their behalf. The board at the time rejected their 
application.


I can't find any minutes from the time and can't speak to the views of 
the board at the time, but there was a view that the person attempting 
to pay was doing it solely to cause problems.


The board at the time was Steve Coast, Henk, Oliver, Mikel, Matt Amos, 
Dermot, and Richard Fairhurst.


I didn't know the background on one of the individuals, but I'd have 
rather seen the other become a member the normal way (paying 
themselves), run for board, and lose.


Under the AoA the board cannot stop a member from running in a board 
election, and a member can only be removed for a small number of 
reasons, and they have a right of appeal to the next general meeting. 
There are also provisions under the Companies' Act for OSMF members to 
remove board members.


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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-12-04 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 


sent from a phone

Am 04.12.2015 um 10:58 schrieb Paul Norman :

>> this outgoing Board, that had a conception of basic democracy different from 
>> mine, 
> 
> I didn't know the background on one of the individuals, but I'd have rather 
> seen the other become a member the normal way (paying themselves), run for 
> board, and lose.


+1, to both, I also thought it had left some bitter taste to stop these 
candidacies top down rather than give confidence to the voters.

cheers 
Martin 
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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-12-03 Thread Mateusz Konieczny 
On Wed, 02 Dec 2015 23:12:22 +0100
Jean-Guilhem Cailton  wrote:

> - Rejection of public lies : Several communications of HOT US Inc.,
> both internal and external, are in contradiction with facts. They
> sometimes combine with the next item, ...

Maybe I missed it but see absolutely no evidence for that claims in
your message. Is it maybe present somewhere and I missed it?

Making heavy accusations and providing no evidence is a poor
combination.

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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-12-02 Thread Jean-Guilhem Cailton 
Le 25/11/2015 13:10, Dave F. a écrit :
> How do you perceive these "dangers" will manifest themselves?
>
> Dave F.
>


Dear OpenStreetMap Community members,

Let me first apologize for writing about topics that usually do not need
to be considered by those who only care about improving this wonderful
common good that is OpenStreetMap. Unfortunately, it has become
necessary because there seems to be a potentially serious threat on what
OpenStreetMap is and will be.

Some might consider this issue to be more specifically appropriate for
the OSMF-talk list, as those with a right to vote on the current
election must be there. However, it is not of concern only to the
registered members of the OSM Foundation, as it might end up impacting
the whole of OSM. It also happens that I have stopped renewing my
membership to the OSMF after an election where a candidate was excluded
from the vote because his views on a controversial subject (related to
license change) were strongly different from those of the majority of
the previous Board. Note that Mr. Maron was already a member of this
outgoing Board, that had a conception of basic democracy different from
mine, according to which it should have been up to the voters not to
vote for a candidate if they didn't agree with his views. So, anyway, I
cannot write to that list.

A recent exchange with some mappers not familiar with what goes on in
HOT US Inc., as well as some of the emails I read on the osmf-talk web
archive, have made me aware that it could be useful to summarize how I
view it after being involved in many crisis activations since Haiti 2010
earthquake, before HOT US Inc. or the h...@openstreetmap.org mailing list
even existed. This might also be seen as another attempt to answer
Frederik's question on osmf-talk : “What should OSMF *not* learn from
HOT?” (Even though I see now that Rod has answered that quite well).

In short, it seems that HOT US Inc., besides its officially started
purpose, and certainly because it views these secondary purposes as
necessary to accomplish it, aims to collect money from donors willing to
support the « humanitarian » use of OSM, and exercise control over the
ways people contribute to these uses. Its reality in practice is thus in
direct opposition to the « support – not control - OSM » motto of the OSMF.


A lesson I remember from my high school philosophy teacher is that you
shouldn't judge a foreign culture based on your values, but on its own.
If I try to apply this guide to HOT US Inc., based on what I think I
know of some US values, that some might even be tempted to consider
universal, or at least broadly admired and shared, here is what I find :

- Democracy : Voting members of HOT US are selected through a strict
cooptation mechanism, with constraints sufficient to ensure that the
initial members keep their dominating influence. This can also be
observed in the result of the votes. Yet some leaders of HOT US
sometimes present themselves as legitimate representatives of the
broader community of OSM/HOT contributors, which is false by construction.

- Free speech : As you probably know, this is protected by the First
Amendment to the US Constitution. Yet in several current cases, it
appears that prominent and legally responsible members of HOT US Inc.
consider that some provisions of the « HOT Code of Conduct » should
prevail on this US constitutional right. You may also have noticed that
I've been submitted to a priori moderation on the h...@openstreetmap.org
mailing list, without notification, and without justification by at
least an example of an inappropriate email, when I became aware of it
and asked for a reason. So the most likely explanation is that Mr. Maron
(who had silently setup this moderation) must have been afraid that I
could ask questions about his conflicts of interest or the cronyism
around him, as I had done on an internal list before. As he is also
moderator of several of the most important OSM mailing lists, including
this “talk” list, this example of abusing of his moderator role to
protect his personal interest could be already in itself worrying to all
those in the OSM community who think that the possibility to exchange
views freely is necessary in a sound community, as now everyone would
have to worry about exposing oneself to such a measure before writing to
the lists.

- Rejection of public lies : Several communications of HOT US Inc., both
internal and external, are in contradiction with facts. They sometimes
combine with the next item, ...

- Prohibition of theft : … to take undeserved ownership and credit on
things done by others (and in particular numerous voluntary mappers
around the World – most of them in non-English speaking parts, or, for
examples on more specific points, what was done with humanitarian
drones, or some satellite imagery to support disaster mapping), and
present them as if they were HOT US's, to justify asking for undue
recognition or funding (including from the

Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-28 Thread Joseph Reeves 
Your understanding of new member admission is correct, however, these
decisions are made by majority vote, so I still have little individual say.
The problem we face in HOT on this issue is getting enough members to
approve new intakes rather than the actions of individuals.

I still fail to see how HOT members could subvert the OSMF, but perhaps I
lack imagination.

Cheers, Joseph
On 28 Nov 2015 12:11, "Christoph Hormann"  wrote:

> On Saturday 28 November 2015, Joseph Reeves wrote:
> >5. I have no decision making powers within HOT - I am a member
> > just as I am an OSMF Member
>
> It seems to me this is not quite correct although - since the work of
> the HOT members is not in public - i cannot really say for sure.
>
> In addition to the right (and in case of HOT apparently the obligation)
> to vote for the board you also have the right - together with your
> fellow members - to decide who becomes a member.  To me this seems a
> quite fundamental difference to the OSMF.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-28 Thread Christoph Hormann 
On Saturday 28 November 2015, Joseph Reeves wrote:
>5. I have no decision making powers within HOT - I am a member
> just as I am an OSMF Member

It seems to me this is not quite correct although - since the work of 
the HOT members is not in public - i cannot really say for sure.

In addition to the right (and in case of HOT apparently the obligation) 
to vote for the board you also have the right - together with your 
fellow members - to decide who becomes a member.  To me this seems a 
quite fundamental difference to the OSMF.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-28 Thread Christoph Hormann 
On Saturday 28 November 2015, Tom Taylor wrote:
> [...]
>
> As a naive lurker on the lists, I took the announced candidacies at
> face value. That is, committed individuals decided individually to
> run for office. I agree that if all of them got elected, HOT would
> dominate the Board, but that is surely not a foregone conclusion. But
> do you really have evidence of a HOT conspiracy as opposed to a set
> of committed individuals?

Within the general OSM community it is probably not a widespread 
assumption that there is a cabal within HOT that pulls the strings 
behind the curtains - although there are events where you can get this 
idea - like when several people from HOT suddenly turn up in a 
discussion all representing the same standpoint.  But many mappers 
notice that people engaged with HOT often share certain views and 
approaches to things that are less common among other mappers.  You can 
see this to some extent in the answers to the questions for the OSMF 
board candidates.

So when people have reservations w.r.t. board candidates with a HOT 
background this does not necessarily mean they have a problem with the 
HOT project or its organization or its influence on the OSMF.  It could 
simply be they have reservations regarding the views shared by those 
people which could well be the same views that also motivated them for 
participating in HOT.

> I note the references to Kate Chapman as representative of HOT. She
> is no longer executive director there.

This probably deserves some clarification:  In contrast to the OSMF 
where everyone able to spend the membership fee can become member 
membership of the HOT origanization is restricted, the current members 
vote who can become a new member.  See

https://hotosm.org/voting-members

Also in contrast to the OSMF activities of the HOT membership are not 
generally public (feel free to correct me if i am wrong here).  Also 
HOT members have certain obligations of contributing to HOT activities 
as outlined on

https://hotosm.org/sites/default/files/HOT_Membership_Code.pdf

According to the available information Kate is a member of HOT - so are 
several candidates for the OSMF board:

Mikel Maron
Joseph Reeves
Yantisa Akhadi

Other candidates are active in HOT to some extent (like participating in 
HOT mapping tasks) but are not members of the HOT organization.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-28 Thread Joseph Reeves 
Dear all,

I've enjoyed reading these emails this week, but have stayed out of the
discussion. I just wanted to clarify some quick points:


   1. I have not discussed my running for the OSMF Board with any other
   candidates
   2. I have not discussed my running for the OSMF Board with the HOT
   group. I did sent an email to the listserv [0] but got no feedback other
   than the suggestion that I send it to the public HOT list after initially
   only sending it to the Members' list
   3. I am not convinced that the answered questions uncover any HOT
   colluding
   4. I view my HOT Membership as the recognition that I previously have
   made a commitment / contribution to HOT
   5. I have no decision making powers within HOT - I am a member just as I
   am an OSMF Member
   6. I am not a member of a secret society that controls HOT from the
   shadows. I don't think such a thing exists, although I would check that
   there have been no pizza vans parked outside the OSMF HQ for a suspiciously
   long time

I look forward to the ongoing election process and am genuinely excited
about the next OSMF Board term. Hopefully I can be a part of it!

Thanks, Joseph


[0] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2015-November/010561.html

On 28 November 2015 at 10:32, Christoph Hormann 
wrote:

> On Saturday 28 November 2015, Tom Taylor wrote:
> > [...]
> >
> > As a naive lurker on the lists, I took the announced candidacies at
> > face value. That is, committed individuals decided individually to
> > run for office. I agree that if all of them got elected, HOT would
> > dominate the Board, but that is surely not a foregone conclusion. But
> > do you really have evidence of a HOT conspiracy as opposed to a set
> > of committed individuals?
>
> Within the general OSM community it is probably not a widespread
> assumption that there is a cabal within HOT that pulls the strings
> behind the curtains - although there are events where you can get this
> idea - like when several people from HOT suddenly turn up in a
> discussion all representing the same standpoint.  But many mappers
> notice that people engaged with HOT often share certain views and
> approaches to things that are less common among other mappers.  You can
> see this to some extent in the answers to the questions for the OSMF
> board candidates.
>
> So when people have reservations w.r.t. board candidates with a HOT
> background this does not necessarily mean they have a problem with the
> HOT project or its organization or its influence on the OSMF.  It could
> simply be they have reservations regarding the views shared by those
> people which could well be the same views that also motivated them for
> participating in HOT.
>
> > I note the references to Kate Chapman as representative of HOT. She
> > is no longer executive director there.
>
> This probably deserves some clarification:  In contrast to the OSMF
> where everyone able to spend the membership fee can become member
> membership of the HOT origanization is restricted, the current members
> vote who can become a new member.  See
>
> https://hotosm.org/voting-members
>
> Also in contrast to the OSMF activities of the HOT membership are not
> generally public (feel free to correct me if i am wrong here).  Also
> HOT members have certain obligations of contributing to HOT activities
> as outlined on
>
> https://hotosm.org/sites/default/files/HOT_Membership_Code.pdf
>
> According to the available information Kate is a member of HOT - so are
> several candidates for the OSMF board:
>
> Mikel Maron
> Joseph Reeves
> Yantisa Akhadi
>
> Other candidates are active in HOT to some extent (like participating in
> HOT mapping tasks) but are not members of the HOT organization.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-27 Thread augustindoury 
- Sorry if you receive this email twice, internet connection from Togo
is uncertain tonight -

Hi Dave,

Your question is not adressed to me but I'd like to give my opinion here.

My name is Augustin Doury, I've been active in OpenStreetMap since end
2012 as a daily commitment to sustain the growth of OSM communities in
West Africa, especially on the field in Senegal where I've been a HOT
volunteer for 5 months and last year as a Projet Espace OpenStreetMap
Francophone volunteer in Burkina Faso for 1 year, plus missions in Ivory
Coast (volunteer) and Togo (paid). I'm a HOT US Inc member since 2013.

Because I've seen what HOT became this last 3 years, I don't want to see
OSM project suffering the same problems as the HOT project.

As others, I think that HOT is a project about using OSM in humanitarian
and development fields, and as any open/free project, everybody should
be able to choose his/her approach within the HOT concept but what
occurs now is that choices are more and more restricted, less choices
for individuals and collectives.
Because HOT US Inc, with its specific vision, has almost monopolized the
HOT project in terms of communication (the logo, the communication
channels, the lists, the story/reputation, the Tasking Manager, the HOT
Exports  ...), I fear that a position at the OSMF board reinforce its
influence.

During the two pasts HOT US Inc elections, I tried as others to give
this point of view and advocate for the definition of a HOT Project with
a HOT Charter and HOT Commons that any individual or organization could
concur with and even officially join and/or fund, as explained by
Severin Menard on his diary [1]. It's for us, in our diversity, the good
way to maintain diversity in the HOT Project, respecting minorities.
I've seen how the HOT US board rejected this approach, saying that there
is not HOT US Inc, there is just HOT and HOT US Inc is HOT and should
not be called « US Inc » because it creates dividness within the HOT
community. I've seen the level of violence some HOT US Inc people were
able to trigger to close the debate without respect for those who work
hard everyday, especially from the field, for making what the HOT
project is now.

The concept of attribution is essential in the OSM project and I feel
like HOT US Inc, by its communication hegemony, benefits from the work
of numerous volunteers from South and North who give their time for the
HOT/OSM project, not for a NGO (which is nowadays in an active
fundraising campain).

I would not like to see this logic implements in OSMF. And simply I do
not understand the aim of the candidates from HOT US Inc to get more
seats at the OSMF board when Kate Chapman is already a board member.
In my opinion, HOT US Inc should not get more than one seat to let the 6
other seats to people who represent other aspects from the OSM ecoystem.

Have a good night and vote,

Augustin

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/sev_hotosm/diary/21846



On 25/11/2015 12:10, Dave F. wrote:
> How do you perceive these "dangers" will manifest themselves?
>
> Dave F.
>
> On 24/11/2015 23:01, nicolas chavent wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> Apologies for crosspostings, resending to talk an email sent to
>> osmf-talk about the HOT US Inc presence at the Board of the OSMF.
>>
>> Best,
>> Nicolas
>>
>>
>> Dear OSMF voting members and mappers,
>>
>> This short note (also published in my diary [1]) to draw your
>> attention on the danger for OSMF (and the OSM project) in the case the
>> United States NGO "Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team US Inc" (aka HOT US
>> Inc) got a majority at the OSMF Board after this 2015 election.
>>
>> Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi, all members of the NGO
>> HOT US Inc, are running for the OSMF Board [2]; Kate Chapman, the
>> former ED of HOT US Inc serves already as Board Officer in OSMF.
>>
>> Shall Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi be elected, HOT US
>> Inc will get a majority at the Board of the Foundation.
>> This will provide a single organization of the OSM ecosystem (HOT US
>> Inc) with an unprecedented and excessive power of influence over the
>> Foundation.
>>
>> This running of three candidates from the same organization is
>> puzzling and troublesome when one considers that HOT US Inc (and
>> therefore its perspective around OpenStreetMap) is already represented
>> at the OSMF Board since Sept 2013. Why extending its presence and
>> influence and consequently diminishing the OSM diversity represented
>> at the OSMF Board?
>>
>> A greater HOT US Inc presence at the OSMF Board would be a matter of
>> concern in terms of :
>> - balance of powers
>> - diversity of visions, thoughts and practices around OSM
>> - board dynamics: a collective of HOT US Inc Boardees would interact
>> with single individuals.
>> This is a bad practice which is not followed by any Organizations;
>> this is specifically true for representative bodies (organization
>> representing organizations) such as OSMF
>>
>> Here are

Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-27 Thread Tom Taylor 
Thank you for a thought-provoking reply. I am neither a HOT voting 
member nor an OSMF voting member, so I'm probably unaware of any 
internal politics that are going on. I do chair the HOT Training WG, 
which I see as an attempt to solve a problem: hundreds or thousands of 
volunteers who want to contribute and have to be made capable of doing 
so in a very short time. And I do see a general trend toward 
professionalization of HOT operations, more or less for the same reasons.


As a naive lurker on the lists, I took the announced candidacies at face 
value. That is, committed individuals decided individually to run for 
office. I agree that if all of them got elected, HOT would dominate the 
Board, but that is surely not a foregone conclusion. But do you really 
have evidence of a HOT conspiracy as opposed to a set of committed 
individuals?


I note the references to Kate Chapman as representative of HOT. She is 
no longer executive director there. Is she not up for re-election?


Tom Taylor
TomT5454

On 27/11/2015 6:27 PM, augustindo...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi Dave,

Your question is not adressed to me but I'd like to participate here.

My name is Augustin Doury, I've been active in OpenStreetMap since end
2012 as a daily commitment to sustain the growth of OSM communities in
West Africa, especially on the field in Senegal where I've been a HOT
volunteer for 5 months and last year as a Projet Espace OpenStreetMap
Francophone volunteer in Burkina Faso for 1 year, plus missions in Ivory
Coast (volunteer) and Togo (paid). I'm a HOT US Inc member since 2013.

Because I've seen what HOT became this last 3 years, I don't want to see
OSM project suffering the same problems as the HOT project.

As others, I think that HOT is a project about using OSM in humanitarian
and development fields, and as any open/free project, everybody should
be able to choose his/her approach within the HOT concept but what
occurs now is that choices are more and more restricted, less choices
for individuals and collectives.
Because HOT US Inc, with its specific vision, has almost monopolized the
HOT project in terms of communication (the logo, the communication
channels, the lists, the story/reputation, the Tasking Manager, the HOT
Exports  ...), I fear that a position at the OSMF board reinforce its
influence.

During the two pasts HOT US Inc elections, I tried as others to give
this point of view and advocate for the definition of a HOT Project with
a HOT Charter and HOT Commons that any individual or organization could
concur with and even officially join and/or fund, as explained by
Severin Menard on his diary [1]. It's for us, in our diversity, the good
way to maintain diversity in the HOT Project, respecting minorities.
I've seen how the HOT US board rejected this approach, saying that there
is not HOT US Inc, there is just HOT and HOT US Inc is HOT and should
not be called « US Inc » because it creates dividness within the HOT
community. I've seen the level of violence some HOT US Inc people were
able to trigger to close the debate without respect for those who work
hard everyday, especially from the field, for making what the HOT
project is now.

The concept of attribution is essential in the OSM project and I feel
like HOT US Inc, by its communication hegemony, benefits from the work
of numerous volunteers from South and North who give their time for the
HOT/OSM project, not for a NGO (which is nowadays in an active
fundraising campain).

I would not like to see this logic implements in OSMF. And simply I do
not understand the aim of the candidates from HOT US Inc to get more
seats at the OSMF board when Kate Chapman is already a board member.
In my opinion, HOT US Inc should not get more than one seat to let the 6
other seats to people who represent other aspects from the OSM ecoystem.

Have a good night from Togo and good vote,

Augustin

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/sev_hotosm/diary/21846


...

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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-27 Thread augustindoury 
Hi Dave,

Your question is not adressed to me but I'd like to participate here.

My name is Augustin Doury, I've been active in OpenStreetMap since end
2012 as a daily commitment to sustain the growth of OSM communities in
West Africa, especially on the field in Senegal where I've been a HOT
volunteer for 5 months and last year as a Projet Espace OpenStreetMap
Francophone volunteer in Burkina Faso for 1 year, plus missions in Ivory
Coast (volunteer) and Togo (paid). I'm a HOT US Inc member since 2013.

Because I've seen what HOT became this last 3 years, I don't want to see
OSM project suffering the same problems as the HOT project.

As others, I think that HOT is a project about using OSM in humanitarian
and development fields, and as any open/free project, everybody should
be able to choose his/her approach within the HOT concept but what
occurs now is that choices are more and more restricted, less choices
for individuals and collectives.
Because HOT US Inc, with its specific vision, has almost monopolized the
HOT project in terms of communication (the logo, the communication
channels, the lists, the story/reputation, the Tasking Manager, the HOT
Exports  ...), I fear that a position at the OSMF board reinforce its
influence.

During the two pasts HOT US Inc elections, I tried as others to give
this point of view and advocate for the definition of a HOT Project with
a HOT Charter and HOT Commons that any individual or organization could
concur with and even officially join and/or fund, as explained by
Severin Menard on his diary [1]. It's for us, in our diversity, the good
way to maintain diversity in the HOT Project, respecting minorities.
I've seen how the HOT US board rejected this approach, saying that there
is not HOT US Inc, there is just HOT and HOT US Inc is HOT and should
not be called « US Inc » because it creates dividness within the HOT
community. I've seen the level of violence some HOT US Inc people were
able to trigger to close the debate without respect for those who work
hard everyday, especially from the field, for making what the HOT
project is now.

The concept of attribution is essential in the OSM project and I feel
like HOT US Inc, by its communication hegemony, benefits from the work
of numerous volunteers from South and North who give their time for the
HOT/OSM project, not for a NGO (which is nowadays in an active
fundraising campain).

I would not like to see this logic implements in OSMF. And simply I do
not understand the aim of the candidates from HOT US Inc to get more
seats at the OSMF board when Kate Chapman is already a board member.
In my opinion, HOT US Inc should not get more than one seat to let the 6
other seats to people who represent other aspects from the OSM ecoystem.

Have a good night from Togo and good vote,

Augustin

[1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/sev_hotosm/diary/21846

On 25/11/2015 12:10, Dave F. wrote:
> How do you perceive these "dangers" will manifest themselves?
>
> Dave F.
>
> On 24/11/2015 23:01, nicolas chavent wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> Apologies for crosspostings, resending to talk an email sent to
>> osmf-talk about the HOT US Inc presence at the Board of the OSMF.
>>
>> Best,
>> Nicolas
>>
>>
>> Dear OSMF voting members and mappers,
>>
>> This short note (also published in my diary [1]) to draw your
>> attention on the danger for OSMF (and the OSM project) in the case the
>> United States NGO "Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team US Inc" (aka HOT US
>> Inc) got a majority at the OSMF Board after this 2015 election.
>>
>> Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi, all members of the NGO
>> HOT US Inc, are running for the OSMF Board [2]; Kate Chapman, the
>> former ED of HOT US Inc serves already as Board Officer in OSMF.
>>
>> Shall Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi be elected, HOT US
>> Inc will get a majority at the Board of the Foundation.
>> This will provide a single organization of the OSM ecosystem (HOT US
>> Inc) with an unprecedented and excessive power of influence over the
>> Foundation.
>>
>> This running of three candidates from the same organization is
>> puzzling and troublesome when one considers that HOT US Inc (and
>> therefore its perspective around OpenStreetMap) is already represented
>> at the OSMF Board since Sept 2013. Why extending its presence and
>> influence and consequently diminishing the OSM diversity represented
>> at the OSMF Board?
>>
>> A greater HOT US Inc presence at the OSMF Board would be a matter of
>> concern in terms of :
>> - balance of powers
>> - diversity of visions, thoughts and practices around OSM
>> - board dynamics: a collective of HOT US Inc Boardees would interact
>> with single individuals.
>> This is a bad practice which is not followed by any Organizations;
>> this is specifically true for representative bodies (organization
>> representing organizations) such as OSMF
>>
>> Here are some elements that OSMF voting members shall have in ming
>> prior casting their ballot

Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-25 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer 
2015-11-25 1:59 GMT+01:00 Dave Corley :

> It's an open election, open to anyone to stand and open to anyone
> (members) to vote for who they choose.
>
> Not to be blunt, but if you don't like that, propose an amendment to the
> governing rules which can be voted on.
>
> In other words, to paraphrase the techies, patches welcome
>

yes, of course it is an open election, but of course Nicolas or anyone else
has the right to express his/her concerns and share them with the
electorate. Everybody can evaluate individually how to treat this
information and whether it will influence his/her voting behaviour or not.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-25 Thread Dave F. 

How do you perceive these "dangers" will manifest themselves?

Dave F.

On 24/11/2015 23:01, nicolas chavent wrote:

Hi all,


Apologies for crosspostings, resending to talk an email sent to
osmf-talk about the HOT US Inc presence at the Board of the OSMF.

Best,
Nicolas


Dear OSMF voting members and mappers,

This short note (also published in my diary [1]) to draw your
attention on the danger for OSMF (and the OSM project) in the case the
United States NGO "Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team US Inc" (aka HOT US
Inc) got a majority at the OSMF Board after this 2015 election.

Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi, all members of the NGO
HOT US Inc, are running for the OSMF Board [2]; Kate Chapman, the
former ED of HOT US Inc serves already as Board Officer in OSMF.

Shall Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi be elected, HOT US
Inc will get a majority at the Board of the Foundation.
This will provide a single organization of the OSM ecosystem (HOT US
Inc) with an unprecedented and excessive power of influence over the
Foundation.

This running of three candidates from the same organization is
puzzling and troublesome when one considers that HOT US Inc (and
therefore its perspective around OpenStreetMap) is already represented
at the OSMF Board since Sept 2013. Why extending its presence and
influence and consequently diminishing the OSM diversity represented
at the OSMF Board?

A greater HOT US Inc presence at the OSMF Board would be a matter of
concern in terms of :
- balance of powers
- diversity of visions, thoughts and practices around OSM
- board dynamics: a collective of HOT US Inc Boardees would interact
with single individuals.
This is a bad practice which is not followed by any Organizations;
this is specifically true for representative bodies (organization
representing organizations) such as OSMF

Here are some elements that OSMF voting members shall have in ming
prior casting their ballot 28-Nov onwards bearing in minds that HOT US
Inc and this perspective about OSM is already represented at the OSMF
Board through Kate Chapman.

The HOT US Inc perspective informs, like other perspectives, the work
of the Foundation and has its effect on the OSM project, there is no
need to take risks in providing this group with more room in the
Foundation which is hot enough in these times of winter.

Best,
Nicolas

[1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nicolas Chavent/diary/36750
[2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM15/Election_to_Board







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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-24 Thread Dave Corley 
It's an open election, open to anyone to stand and open to anyone (members)
to vote for who they choose.

Not to be blunt, but if you don't like that, propose an amendment to the
governing rules which can be voted on.

In other words, to paraphrase the techies, patches welcome

Dave
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Re: [OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-24 Thread john whelan 
My personal view is it doesn't really matter.  It is an election as I
understand it so members do vote for whom they wish to represent them.
Perhaps a larger concern might be the concentration of board members from a
particular country or region.

Cheerio John

On 24 November 2015 at 18:01, nicolas chavent 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
> Apologies for crosspostings, resending to talk an email sent to
> osmf-talk about the HOT US Inc presence at the Board of the OSMF.
>
> Best,
> Nicolas
>
>
> Dear OSMF voting members and mappers,
>
> This short note (also published in my diary [1]) to draw your
> attention on the danger for OSMF (and the OSM project) in the case the
> United States NGO "Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team US Inc" (aka HOT US
> Inc) got a majority at the OSMF Board after this 2015 election.
>
> Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi, all members of the NGO
> HOT US Inc, are running for the OSMF Board [2]; Kate Chapman, the
> former ED of HOT US Inc serves already as Board Officer in OSMF.
>
> Shall Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi be elected, HOT US
> Inc will get a majority at the Board of the Foundation.
> This will provide a single organization of the OSM ecosystem (HOT US
> Inc) with an unprecedented and excessive power of influence over the
> Foundation.
>
> This running of three candidates from the same organization is
> puzzling and troublesome when one considers that HOT US Inc (and
> therefore its perspective around OpenStreetMap) is already represented
> at the OSMF Board since Sept 2013. Why extending its presence and
> influence and consequently diminishing the OSM diversity represented
> at the OSMF Board?
>
> A greater HOT US Inc presence at the OSMF Board would be a matter of
> concern in terms of :
> - balance of powers
> - diversity of visions, thoughts and practices around OSM
> - board dynamics: a collective of HOT US Inc Boardees would interact
> with single individuals.
> This is a bad practice which is not followed by any Organizations;
> this is specifically true for representative bodies (organization
> representing organizations) such as OSMF
>
> Here are some elements that OSMF voting members shall have in ming
> prior casting their ballot 28-Nov onwards bearing in minds that HOT US
> Inc and this perspective about OSM is already represented at the OSMF
> Board through Kate Chapman.
>
> The HOT US Inc perspective informs, like other perspectives, the work
> of the Foundation and has its effect on the OSM project, there is no
> need to take risks in providing this group with more room in the
> Foundation which is hot enough in these times of winter.
>
> Best,
> Nicolas
>
> [1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nicolas Chavent/diary/36750
> [2]:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM15/Election_to_Board
>
>
>
>
> --
> Nicolas Chavent
> Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
> Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
> Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
> Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
> Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99
> 
> Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
> Skype: c_nicolas
> Twitter: nicolas_chavent
>
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> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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[OSM-talk] From osmf-talk: "Balancing the presence of the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT US Inc) in the OpenStreetMap Foundation"

2015-11-24 Thread nicolas chavent 
Hi all,


Apologies for crosspostings, resending to talk an email sent to
osmf-talk about the HOT US Inc presence at the Board of the OSMF.

Best,
Nicolas


Dear OSMF voting members and mappers,

This short note (also published in my diary [1]) to draw your
attention on the danger for OSMF (and the OSM project) in the case the
United States NGO "Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team US Inc" (aka HOT US
Inc) got a majority at the OSMF Board after this 2015 election.

Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi, all members of the NGO
HOT US Inc, are running for the OSMF Board [2]; Kate Chapman, the
former ED of HOT US Inc serves already as Board Officer in OSMF.

Shall Mikel Maron, Joseph Reeves and Yantisa Akhadi be elected, HOT US
Inc will get a majority at the Board of the Foundation.
This will provide a single organization of the OSM ecosystem (HOT US
Inc) with an unprecedented and excessive power of influence over the
Foundation.

This running of three candidates from the same organization is
puzzling and troublesome when one considers that HOT US Inc (and
therefore its perspective around OpenStreetMap) is already represented
at the OSMF Board since Sept 2013. Why extending its presence and
influence and consequently diminishing the OSM diversity represented
at the OSMF Board?

A greater HOT US Inc presence at the OSMF Board would be a matter of
concern in terms of :
- balance of powers
- diversity of visions, thoughts and practices around OSM
- board dynamics: a collective of HOT US Inc Boardees would interact
with single individuals.
This is a bad practice which is not followed by any Organizations;
this is specifically true for representative bodies (organization
representing organizations) such as OSMF

Here are some elements that OSMF voting members shall have in ming
prior casting their ballot 28-Nov onwards bearing in minds that HOT US
Inc and this perspective about OSM is already represented at the OSMF
Board through Kate Chapman.

The HOT US Inc perspective informs, like other perspectives, the work
of the Foundation and has its effect on the OSM project, there is no
need to take risks in providing this group with more room in the
Foundation which is hot enough in these times of winter.

Best,
Nicolas

[1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Nicolas Chavent/diary/36750
[2]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM15/Election_to_Board




-- 
Nicolas Chavent
Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99

Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
Twitter: nicolas_chavent

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