Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
Am 04.05.2015 um 00:50 schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: ... I can't help but draw a parallell between OSM and PostgreSQL, which has the same actual product is only owned by a community, but lots of companies offer commercial support structure. Nearly all other big databases are backed by a single company, and PG regularly gets feedback about people turned off by the lack of an official PG company. No matter how many companies offer high quality support, and that this setup is demonstrably better for the project as a whole, some potential users will always be turned off. It is completely clear that from a marketing and branding pov a different business model (aka the WMF model, see my diary post from last week) would be simpler, more effective and less confusing. It would however not be more geo-business friendly. So I feel that we don't have a problem with the current structure, but perhaps we could present that structure better. Compare for example http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/ to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Companies. Gary's OSM for business consortium also has a nice ring to it (if anything, because the members would be self-selected, it'd avoid a wiki edit war or a complicated OSMF-led selection process). I'm not sure what utility such an organisation would have (not even touching on the obvious back lash it would provoke), the OSMF and the community already point to the consulting and services companies in OSMspace where ever possible (for example on switch2osm.org), And if OSM would ever choose to change its business model, see above, it would be defunct anyway. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 05/04/2015 09:30 AM, Simon Poole wrote: I'm not sure what utility such an organisation would have (not even touching on the obvious back lash it would provoke), the OSMF and the community already point to the consulting and services companies in OSMspace where ever possible (for example on switch2osm.org), And if OSM would ever choose to change its business model, see above, it would be defunct anyway. Perhaps we should start an OSMF approved vendor programme, and out-source certification of OSMF certified engineers to a few selected training organisations and make a fortune! Plus, it would keep out the riff-raff, we don't want no clueless self-taught hackers to build a business on our brand, right? Bye Frederik /sarcasm - -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVRzKiAAoJEOx/uhGAJu9HvIoIAICbdAdBVZkRA075nKnqt40i t9HdrT8CpaqQmYg5Dxq0BiR/NkmanGuZm02efIF9La4S2JVaEAqbKizWe1fklilI YAEynjMphdqzwe6AqAYTmGC/F/xZT6fWJo08kTRG4NG7QYkWqL35TLCRgWcGuR8a qh7lMrtFYpigBrPTedt4/Wfox4vIIIMmvpZ3EvG/uBnp4vuYeiNKqBtas3xquVSZ slyTgCMW19tJ//tpWIo2Dh2JZXm8kovnJu16BHXjfFyY66fYL4+j0JyUMPR1NJyY UgEtiMa4hhcw8G2dXZLiOHBV4P2ps9mnOKiju7KRYD74PMaLobmvO9aWi9BsMHc= =/3cg -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
On 01/05/2015, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Am 01.05.2015 um 02:29 schrieb Nicholas G Lawrence: Exactly why this is necessary is a mystery to me. If business wants to make use of OSM data, they can download the planet file just like anyone else. If business wants to contribute data, or donate equipment or sponsor events, those things are also possible. It should be pointed out that during 2012 and 2014 and continuing with at least the LWG till today, dozens of companies and organisations (outside of the geo-industry) with questions have had no problems contacting the OSMF and getting an answer back, typically within less than 24 hours. The OSMF even has a published and working postal mail address (contrary to certain other organisations). Contacting the OSMF is one thing, but for most companies the only reason to do that is to clear a license question (which sadly come up much more often than they should). The other reasons to want a single point of contact is to get technical support and all kind of services, which companies like Mapbox and Geofabrik cater for (I'm sure they can proxy legal questions as well). I can't help but draw a parallell between OSM and PostgreSQL, which has the same actual product is only owned by a community, but lots of companies offer commercial support structure. Nearly all other big databases are backed by a single company, and PG regularly gets feedback about people turned off by the lack of an official PG company. No matter how many companies offer high quality support, and that this setup is demonstrably better for the project as a whole, some potential users will always be turned off. So I feel that we don't have a problem with the current structure, but perhaps we could present that structure better. Compare for example http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_support/ to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Companies. Gary's OSM for business consortium also has a nice ring to it (if anything, because the members would be self-selected, it'd avoid a wiki edit war or a complicated OSMF-led selection process). ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
See https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/pull/963 for the PR. Simon Am 01.05.2015 um 11:26 schrieb Simon Poole: I was actually going to suggest something along such lines given that both the Help and About pages are not particularly well used. But didn't want to get in to the bike shedding trap, so if I get around to it I'll submit a couple of PRs. Simon Am 01.05.2015 um 10:52 schrieb Tom Hughes: On 01/05/15 09:25, Simon Poole wrote: I'm fairly sure that it has been discussed before (for a while pre-redesign we had such a link at least on the German version which we really should still have for legal reasons). I suspects the designers issue is using screen real estate for stuff that is not that often used. It is simply the small matter of producing the code and a test instance of the rails port with the corresponding changes. I don't think a new link is necessary - how about just beefing up the current extremely minimal Help page with some nice text and including a section with contact details for various use cases? Tom ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
Am 01.05.2015 um 02:29 schrieb Nicholas G Lawrence: Exactly why this is necessary is a mystery to me. If business wants to make use of OSM data, they can download the planet file just like anyone else. If business wants to contribute data, or donate equipment or sponsor events, those things are also possible. It should be pointed out that during 2012 and 2014 and continuing with at least the LWG till today, dozens of companies and organisations (outside of the geo-industry) with questions have had no problems contacting the OSMF and getting an answer back, typically within less than 24 hours. The OSMF even has a published and working postal mail address (contrary to certain other organisations). Maybe we should run a workshop on how to use google and an e-mail program for the moaners in the geo-industry. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
I wonder how a marketing department would react if their (potential) customers complained they couldn't find the store. On 2015-05-01 08:47, Simon Poole wrote: Am 01.05.2015 um 02:29 schrieb Nicholas G Lawrence: Exactly why this is necessary is a mystery to me. If business wants to make use of OSM data, they can download the planet file just like anyone else. If business wants to contribute data, or donate equipment or sponsor events, those things are also possible. It should be pointed out that during 2012 and 2014 and continuing with at least the LWG till today, dozens of companies and organisations (outside of the geo-industry) with questions have had no problems contacting the OSMF and getting an answer back, typically within less than 24 hours. The OSMF even has a published and working postal mail address (contrary to certain other organisations). Maybe we should run a workshop on how to use google and an e-mail program for the moaners in the geo-industry. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
Am 01.05.2015 um 08:56 schrieb Colin Smale: I wonder how a marketing department would react if their (potential) customers complained they couldn't find the store. Gary knows very very very well who and how to contact if he actually had a question. Just as the handful of others in the geo-industry moaning, it is simply a meme for you don't conform to our industry norm for a number of things and we think you should. It is a very particularly silly meme, because as pointed out, at least in modern times, I have yet to find anybody having issues or questions THAT REALLY WANTED AN ANSWER and was not purposely fumbling to make a statement, not finding out about the OSMF (or for local stuff one of the local organisations) and getting a response. Could it be easier? Sure, but google doesn't really care about our tendency to hide information behind multiple links (for example it takes two clicks from the main map page to find that the OSMF is the licensor of the data instead of one) so while not super convenient it is not HARD to find out. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
I'm fairly sure that it has been discussed before (for a while pre-redesign we had such a link at least on the German version which we really should still have for legal reasons). I suspects the designers issue is using screen real estate for stuff that is not that often used. It is simply the small matter of producing the code and a test instance of the rails port with the corresponding changes. Simon Am 01.05.2015 um 09:54 schrieb Colin Smale: How about a new page on www.openstreetmap.org behind a new item Contact in the top row menu (which has Help and About)? I am thinking of a page which forwards users according to their scenario: If you would like to contribute to the map as an individual, click here If you would like to partner with OSM to improve the map, click here If you would like to re-use OSM data or have questions about licensing, click here etc etc The current Help page is all about mapping, and the About page does contain a link to OSMF but without any information about what the OSMF is or does in the ecosystem. On 2015-05-01 09:45, Simon Poole wrote: Am 01.05.2015 um 08:56 schrieb Colin Smale: I wonder how a marketing department would react if their (potential) customers complained they couldn't find the store. Gary knows very very very well who and how to contact if he actually had a question. Just as the handful of others in the geo-industry moaning, it is simply a meme for you don't conform to our industry norm for a number of things and we think you should. It is a very particularly silly meme, because as pointed out, at least in modern times, I have yet to find anybody having issues or questions THAT REALLY WANTED AN ANSWER and was not purposely fumbling to make a statement, not finding out about the OSMF (or for local stuff one of the local organisations) and getting a response. Could it be easier? Sure, but google doesn't really care about our tendency to hide information behind multiple links (for example it takes two clicks from the main map page to find that the OSMF is the licensor of the data instead of one) so while not super convenient it is not HARD to find out. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
How about a new page on www.openstreetmap.org behind a new item Contact in the top row menu (which has Help and About)? I am thinking of a page which forwards users according to their scenario: If you would like to contribute to the map as an individual, click here If you would like to partner with OSM to improve the map, click here If you would like to re-use OSM data or have questions about licensing, click here etc etc The current Help page is all about mapping, and the About page does contain a link to OSMF but without any information about what the OSMF is or does in the ecosystem. On 2015-05-01 09:45, Simon Poole wrote: Am 01.05.2015 um 08:56 schrieb Colin Smale: I wonder how a marketing department would react if their (potential) customers complained they couldn't find the store. Gary knows very very very well who and how to contact if he actually had a question. Just as the handful of others in the geo-industry moaning, it is simply a meme for you don't conform to our industry norm for a number of things and we think you should. It is a very particularly silly meme, because as pointed out, at least in modern times, I have yet to find anybody having issues or questions THAT REALLY WANTED AN ANSWER and was not purposely fumbling to make a statement, not finding out about the OSMF (or for local stuff one of the local organisations) and getting a response. Could it be easier? Sure, but google doesn't really care about our tendency to hide information behind multiple links (for example it takes two clicks from the main map page to find that the OSMF is the licensor of the data instead of one) so while not super convenient it is not HARD to find out. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk [1] Links: -- [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
On 01/05/15 09:25, Simon Poole wrote: I'm fairly sure that it has been discussed before (for a while pre-redesign we had such a link at least on the German version which we really should still have for legal reasons). I suspects the designers issue is using screen real estate for stuff that is not that often used. It is simply the small matter of producing the code and a test instance of the rails port with the corresponding changes. I don't think a new link is necessary - how about just beefing up the current extremely minimal Help page with some nice text and including a section with contact details for various use cases? Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
I feel OSM has many flaws and one of them is that it's failing to address the flaws adequately. I think the fault lies with the OSM marketing department - what do you mean, we haven't got one ? Another fer instance: ex-mappers should be a swear-word around here. On 1 May 2015 at 10:12, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: Am 01.05.2015 um 10:48 schrieb Christoph Hormann: ... rant Of course big head at company A usually knows how to quickly get in contact with big head at company B, what really bugs them with OSM is that they are supposed to use the same channels as John Doe. /rant Well less that, because obviously given that we are talking about a small group of people, they will actually typically know each other in any case, the real irritation is that everybody gets the same usage terms and you can't haggle a special deal. I don't want to make the impression that from an OSMF business operations perspective everything is perfect, far from it. But the issues tend(ed) to be more internal cultural kind of things than customer facing. Simon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
Am 01.05.2015 um 10:48 schrieb Christoph Hormann: ... rant Of course big head at company A usually knows how to quickly get in contact with big head at company B, what really bugs them with OSM is that they are supposed to use the same channels as John Doe. /rant Well less that, because obviously given that we are talking about a small group of people, they will actually typically know each other in any case, the real irritation is that everybody gets the same usage terms and you can't haggle a special deal. I don't want to make the impression that from an OSMF business operations perspective everything is perfect, far from it. But the issues tend(ed) to be more internal cultural kind of things than customer facing. Simon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
Just a quick comment that GeoHipster is just a (fun) blog with some tongue-in-cheek atmosphere. There are eg interviews on it and guest posts with very different opinions. Gary's post is his own views. I am not affiliated with GeoHipster, just wanted to clear this up. Cheers, Hannes Anybody ever get the feeling that there may be some astroturf in play? I can't help but to see a parallel in this discussion between GeoHipster's position relative to OpenStreetMap today and groups linked to Microsoft relative to Linux two decades ago. pgpXcZ9P0Y4m4.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 1:47 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: It should be pointed out that during 2012 and 2014 and continuing with at least the LWG till today, dozens of companies and organisations (outside of the geo-industry) with questions have had no problems contacting the OSMF and getting an answer back, typically within less than 24 hours. The OSMF even has a published and working postal mail address (contrary to certain other organisations). Maybe we should run a workshop on how to use google and an e-mail program for the moaners in the geo-industry. Anybody ever get the feeling that there may be some astroturf in play? I can't help but to see a parallel in this discussion between GeoHipster's position relative to OpenStreetMap today and groups linked to Microsoft relative to Linux two decades ago. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
On Friday 01 May 2015, Simon Poole wrote: Gary knows very very very well who and how to contact if he actually had a question. Just as the handful of others in the geo-industry moaning, it is simply a meme for you don't conform to our industry norm for a number of things and we think you should. The funny thing is that bigger companies - specifically including the 'moaning ones from the geo-industry' - are usually quite hard to get in contact with outside their regular streamlined business processes like web shops and sign up forms, for example via contact forms and published email addresses. rant Of course big head at company A usually knows how to quickly get in contact with big head at company B, what really bugs them with OSM is that they are supposed to use the same channels as John Doe. /rant -- Christoph Hormann http://www.imagico.de/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
I was actually going to suggest something along such lines given that both the Help and About pages are not particularly well used. But didn't want to get in to the bike shedding trap, so if I get around to it I'll submit a couple of PRs. Simon Am 01.05.2015 um 10:52 schrieb Tom Hughes: On 01/05/15 09:25, Simon Poole wrote: I'm fairly sure that it has been discussed before (for a while pre-redesign we had such a link at least on the German version which we really should still have for legal reasons). I suspects the designers issue is using screen real estate for stuff that is not that often used. It is simply the small matter of producing the code and a test instance of the rails port with the corresponding changes. I don't think a new link is necessary - how about just beefing up the current extremely minimal Help page with some nice text and including a section with contact details for various use cases? Tom signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
Perhaps TeleNav or Bing's lawyers are brave enough to say ODbL is not a problem, or they guess that those entities could absorb the lawsuit. They are the only lawyers who take this stance, and they haven't tested it - neither company provides permanent OSM-derived geocoding. Everywhere else, cautious lawyers and lawyers are the same thing. On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 8:52 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: I love Gary - I think it’s great that OSM is getting to the point that people will write 100 page critiques of it. We must be doing something right. :-) I actually tried on the single point of contact issue, I think it’d be a great idea for OSM to have a 1-800 (or similar) number. Even manned by volunteers. But at the time, companies are evil and all that so it didn’t go anywhere. ODbL critique is the usual thing; people want to take OSM and merge it with other people’s datasets without giving back, perhaps for good reasons. That’s not an ambiguity, it’s the whole point. There are edge cases and complexities like geocoding, but as far as I can see some lawyers can work with it, cautious lawyers tend to make it a big issue. It’s a shame some organizations are trapped by cautious advice like that - I’ve worked in organizations with more positive advice around OSM and it means you can go a lot further. Best Steve On Apr 30, 2015, at 6:29 PM, Nicholas G Lawrence nicholas.g.lawre...@tmr.qld.gov.au wrote: http://geohipster.com/2015/04/27/gary-gale-dear-osm-its-time-to-get-your-finger-out/ Anyone read this blog piece by Gary Gale? Is it worth commenting on? *“**To my mind there’s two barriers to greater and more widespread adoption, both of which can be overcome if there’s sufficient will to overcome them within the OSM community as a whole. These barriers are, in no particular order … licensing, and OSM not being seen as (more) conducive to working with business.”* 1) Gary criticises OSM for not having a single point of contact for business to liaise with. Exactly why this is necessary is a mystery to me. If business wants to make use of OSM data, they can download the planet file just like anyone else. If business wants to contribute data, or donate equipment or sponsor events, those things are also possible. 2) Gary criticises the ODbL for ambiguities in the share-alike clause. Maybe this needs clarification, but personally I think the share-alike clause is a good thing. Fundamentally though, Gary seems to be under the impression that OSM has a driving need to “compete” with other providers of geospatial data, and that if OSM hasn’t “won the race” then it is failing somehow. Which I think reveals a vast ignorance of the motivations of the majority of OSM volunteers. Anyway, I wondered if anyone else had seen the post. Cheers, Nick *** WARNING: This email (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged, confidential or private information and may be protected by copyright. You may only use it if you are the person(s) it was intended to be sent to and if you use it in an authorised way. No one is allowed to use, review, alter, transmit, disclose, distribute, print or copy this email without appropriate authority. If this email was not intended for you and was sent to you by mistake, please telephone or email me immediately, destroy any hardcopies of this email and delete it and any copies of it from your computer system. Any right which the sender may have under copyright law, and any legal privilege and confidentiality attached to this email is not waived or destroyed by that mistake. It is your responsibility to ensure that this email does not contain and is not affected by computer viruses, defects or interference by third parties or replication problems (including incompatibility with your computer system). Opinions contained in this email do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Department of Transport and Main Roads, or endorsed organisations utilising the same infrastructure. *** ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
On May 1, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Tom MacWright t...@macwright.org wrote: Perhaps TeleNav or Bing's lawyers are brave enough to say ODbL is not a problem, or they guess that those entities could absorb the lawsuit. They are the only lawyers who take this stance, and they haven't tested it - neither company provides permanent OSM-derived geocoding. Maybe. Either way, if somebody’s product strategy is driven by legal then something is wrong. Imagine a startup environment: huge risks with capital and everything else anyway, why wouldn’t legal be another risk? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] GeoHipster comment on OSM
I love Gary - I think it’s great that OSM is getting to the point that people will write 100 page critiques of it. We must be doing something right. :-) I actually tried on the single point of contact issue, I think it’d be a great idea for OSM to have a 1-800 (or similar) number. Even manned by volunteers. But at the time, companies are evil and all that so it didn’t go anywhere. ODbL critique is the usual thing; people want to take OSM and merge it with other people’s datasets without giving back, perhaps for good reasons. That’s not an ambiguity, it’s the whole point. There are edge cases and complexities like geocoding, but as far as I can see some lawyers can work with it, cautious lawyers tend to make it a big issue. It’s a shame some organizations are trapped by cautious advice like that - I’ve worked in organizations with more positive advice around OSM and it means you can go a lot further. Best Steve On Apr 30, 2015, at 6:29 PM, Nicholas G Lawrence nicholas.g.lawre...@tmr.qld.gov.au wrote: http://geohipster.com/2015/04/27/gary-gale-dear-osm-its-time-to-get-your-finger-out/ http://geohipster.com/2015/04/27/gary-gale-dear-osm-its-time-to-get-your-finger-out/ Anyone read this blog piece by Gary Gale? Is it worth commenting on? “To my mind there’s two barriers to greater and more widespread adoption, both of which can be overcome if there’s sufficient will to overcome them within the OSM community as a whole. These barriers are, in no particular order … licensing, and OSM not being seen as (more) conducive to working with business.” 1) Gary criticises OSM for not having a single point of contact for business to liaise with. Exactly why this is necessary is a mystery to me. If business wants to make use of OSM data, they can download the planet file just like anyone else. If business wants to contribute data, or donate equipment or sponsor events, those things are also possible. 2) Gary criticises the ODbL for ambiguities in the share-alike clause. Maybe this needs clarification, but personally I think the share-alike clause is a good thing. Fundamentally though, Gary seems to be under the impression that OSM has a driving need to “compete” with other providers of geospatial data, and that if OSM hasn’t “won the race” then it is failing somehow. Which I think reveals a vast ignorance of the motivations of the majority of OSM volunteers. Anyway, I wondered if anyone else had seen the post. Cheers, Nick *** WARNING: This email (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged, confidential or private information and may be protected by copyright. You may only use it if you are the person(s) it was intended to be sent to and if you use it in an authorised way. No one is allowed to use, review, alter, transmit, disclose, distribute, print or copy this email without appropriate authority. If this email was not intended for you and was sent to you by mistake, please telephone or email me immediately, destroy any hardcopies of this email and delete it and any copies of it from your computer system. Any right which the sender may have under copyright law, and any legal privilege and confidentiality attached to this email is not waived or destroyed by that mistake. It is your responsibility to ensure that this email does not contain and is not affected by computer viruses, defects or interference by third parties or replication problems (including incompatibility with your computer system). Opinions contained in this email do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Department of Transport and Main Roads, or endorsed organisations utilising the same infrastructure. *** ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org mailto:talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
