Re: [OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?
sent from a phone > Am 10.09.2015 um 02:20 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > > Using that logic > > a parking area is a property of a parking aisle. > > a fuel station is a property of a driveway. > > and so on. doesn't seem logical to me, but if you see it like this you might want to propose properties for these ways to add that information. Like xy area object tags + fenced=yes is an implicit fence (property) and barrier=fence is an explicit fence (object), and both are valid tags. > > Bridges, tunnel and cuttings are physical objects that have their own > properties (names, heights, widths, materials etc) > that can be independent of whatever else they may be related to. yes, and to store these own properties in a common way you likely should map these objects on their own. For a bridge the tag is man_made=bridge if we don't have yet tags to map explicit tunnels and cuttings, these could be introduced (maybe there aren't own properties on these objects that mappers so far wanted to map, hence no tags have yet been introduced). cheers Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?
Is there a metamodel behind this? Something that says (simplistic example) there are "objects" which have "properties" and "links to / relationships with other objects"? And how this might map to OSM entities and their tagging? IMHO something like this as a "poster on the wall for every mapper" might help resolve many tagging disputes where there are conflicting paradigms leading to a shouting match whereby the one with the loudest voice wins that battle, but leaving the war going on... On 2015-09-10 09:18, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > sent from a phone > >> Am 10.09.2015 um 02:20 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: >> >> Using that logic >> >> a parking area is a property of a parking aisle. >> >> a fuel station is a property of a driveway. >> >> and so on. > > doesn't seem logical to me, but if you see it like this you might want to > propose properties for these ways to add that information. > > Like > xy area object tags + > fenced=yes > > is an implicit fence (property) and > > barrier=fence is an explicit fence (object), and both are valid tags. > >> Bridges, tunnel and cuttings are physical objects that have their own >> properties (names, heights, widths, materials etc) >> that can be independent of whatever else they may be related to. > > yes, and to store these own properties in a common way you likely should map > these objects on their own. > > For a bridge the tag is > man_made=bridge > > if we don't have yet tags to map explicit tunnels and cuttings, these could > be introduced (maybe there aren't own properties on these objects that > mappers so far wanted to map, hence no tags have yet been introduced). > > cheers > Martin > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?
On 9/09/2015 3:36 PM, Maarten Deen wrote: On 2015-09-09 05:18, Warin wrote: The some of the wiki pages appear to be written for the renders, while others look to be written for the mappers. This is confusing! I believe there should be two versions of the wiki pages - one for mappers who need simple descriptions of the tag/s and another for renders that give information on rendering the tag/s. So two pages - mappers version and renders version. I think most "key" pages have both. The information has been mixed up together. I would rather see it separated so that th emaper is not presented with the renders information. As a small example; The properties page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Properties this list a number of what a mapper would call an object (bridge, tunnel, cutting) but a render associates with another object to render it correctly and thus calls it a property. Thus there are two conflicting views that lead to confusion. But all the properties on that page have their own page which gives (sometimes more, sometimes less) detailed instructions on how to use them. It is a summary page, just like shops, highways etc have summary pages - these are mostly helpfull for new comers. This is also not really a page that has to be viewed on its own. It is part of the bigger overview of map features on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features I also think it needs a cleanup. For instance: frequency. Why is that under properties when it is also mentioned in railways? Is it used in other place (and powerlines)? Frequency is also a property of power lines, communication, radio and radio telescope antennas Do you have other examples? I think open_hours is a mix of mappers and renders views. Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?
On 9/09/2015 3:40 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone Am 09.09.2015 um 05:18 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: this list a number of what a mapper would call an object (bridge, tunnel, cutting) but a render associates with another object to render it correctly and thus calls it a property. these are properties, because they are added to an object to detail its position (on a bridge, in a tunnel or cutting), they do not map the bridge, tunnel or cutting itself, just referring it indirectly. Using that logic a parking area is a property of a parking aisle. a fuel station is a property of a driveway. and so on. Bridges, tunnel and cuttings are physical objects that have their own properties (names, heights, widths, materials etc) that can be independent of whatever else they may be related to. A single bridge may carry a roadway, rail lines, water pipes, gas pipes and electrical supply lines. I would not view the bridge as a property of any of those things but as an entity itself. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?
The some of the wiki pages appear to be written for the renders, while others look to be written for the mappers. This is confusing! I believe there should be two versions of the wiki pages - one for mappers who need simple descriptions of the tag/s and another for renders that give information on rendering the tag/s. So two pages - mappers version and renders version. As a small example; The properties page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Properties this list a number of what a mapper would call an object (bridge, tunnel, cutting) but a render associates with another object to render it correctly and thus calls it a property. Thus there are two conflicting views that lead to confusion. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?
sent from a phone > Am 09.09.2015 um 05:18 schrieb Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com>: > > this list a number of what a mapper would call an object (bridge, tunnel, > cutting) > but a render associates with another object to render it correctly and thus > calls it a property. these are properties, because they are added to an object to detail its position (on a bridge, in a tunnel or cutting), they do not map the bridge, tunnel or cutting itself, just referring it indirectly. cheers Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] The wki pages ... for the mapper? or the render? or both?
On 2015-09-09 05:18, Warin wrote: The some of the wiki pages appear to be written for the renders, while others look to be written for the mappers. This is confusing! I believe there should be two versions of the wiki pages - one for mappers who need simple descriptions of the tag/s and another for renders that give information on rendering the tag/s. So two pages - mappers version and renders version. I think most "key" pages have both. As a small example; The properties page http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Properties this list a number of what a mapper would call an object (bridge, tunnel, cutting) but a render associates with another object to render it correctly and thus calls it a property. Thus there are two conflicting views that lead to confusion. But all the properties on that page have their own page which gives (sometimes more, sometimes less) detailed instructions on how to use them. This is also not really a page that has to be viewed on its own. It is part of the bigger overview of map features on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features I also think it needs a cleanup. For instance: frequency. Why is that under properties when it is also mentioned in railways? Is it used in other place (and powerlines)? Do you have other examples? Regards, Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
