Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Editing road geometry Australia

[Marc Gemis]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 10:53 PM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Also using the tag lanes how can the turn restrictions that exist be tagged, 
> the right 2 must turn right and the left 2 must go straight on ?
>

A combination of turn:lanes (through|through|right|right) and
change:lanes (yes|only_left|only_right|yes) and lanes=4 before the
split and lanes=2 on both ways after the split, should be enough.

AFAIK routers do not handle the change:lanes at this moment, but do a
good job based on the turn:lanes.

regards

m.

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Re: [talk-au] Editing road geometry Australia

[iansteer]

I also agree with the Telenav approach for the WA intersection (the other is 
unnecessarily complicated).

Ian


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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Editing road geometry Australia

[John Berkers]

Warin,

I agree with your point about being able to tag the turn restrictions, and
the solid white line.

I think the main issue is that the node where the ways diverge is a
significant distance from where the line become solid.  If fact, the node
is near the beginning of the dashed line.

If the divergence of the ways was placed nearer to the commencement of the
solid white line, this would maintain the ability to implement turn
restrictions, and clean up the intersection.  Lane tagging is also
recommended, prior to the divergence of the ways, so that supporting
navigation aids can advise the driver appropriately.

Does this work for you, Petra/Telenav?

Also, Petra, your image of the WA intersection is more in-line with what I
believe should be mapped in that instance, and is in line with my earlier
comments.

Does anyone else have further suggestions on the Canberra intersection?

Regards,

JohnB

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 8:53 AM Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11/01/19 19:51, John Berkers wrote:
>
> Long time lurker, some time editor.
>
> It is my understanding that marked "turn right only  lanes" are not cause
> to create divergent ways.  These should be tagged using the "lanes" key as
> per https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes
>
> Creating divergent ways is considered "Tagging for the renderer" as the
> documented separation is not physically there.
>
>
> I disagree. But then I could be wrong.
> In the second (Canberra) example:
> Where a solid line exists between the two groups of lanes there is a
> 'legal barrier' that you cannot legally cross between the two groups of
> lanes (2 go right and 2 continues
>  straight on).
> Using the tag lanes does not convey this 'legal barrier'.
> Also using the tag lanes how can the turn restrictions that exist be
> tagged, the right 2 must turn right and the left 2 must go straight on ?
>
>
> The first one, in WA, appears less of an issue to me.  Perhaps the
> separation nodes could be closer to where the ways actually diverge,
> somewhere around the mid-point of the dashed lines, rather than at the
> start of them.
>
> The second one, near Canberra, has clearly diverged ways most of the way
> along the bridge.
>
> This intersection in Melbourne could potentially serve as an example:
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.93265/145.15653
>
> Where there are actual medians between lanes, the ways separate,
> otherwise, they do not.
>
> Hope I haven't spoken out of turn.  The views expressed above are my
> understanding of the guidelines with respect to mapping what is actually
> there.
>
> Regards,
>
> JohnB
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:15 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Resend to include list :-(
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message -
>> From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 17:12
>> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Editing road geometry Australia
>> To: Petra Rajka - (p) 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 16:19, Petra Rajka - (p) 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m Petra and I am part of the mapping team at Telenav.
>>>
>>> Since January we started to work on road geometry in Canberra, Perth and
>>> Melbourne and we came across some intersections where roads (turn lanes)
>>> are mapped separately even where there is no physical divider or chevron
>>> markings.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, Petra, but you've got me, at least, a bit confused?
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.09137/116.01315 certainly
>> appears to show traffic islands (better view with Esri Clarity)
>>
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/-35.34078/149.16289 has marked
>> "turn right only" lanes.
>>
>> Sorry, can't see a problem with either of them, unless you're looking at
>> something I'm not seeing? :-)
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Editing road geometry Australia

[Warin]

On 11/01/19 19:51, John Berkers wrote:

Long time lurker, some time editor.

It is my understanding that marked "turn right only lanes" are not 
cause to create divergent ways.  These should be tagged using the 
"lanes" key as per https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes


Creating divergent ways is considered "Tagging for the renderer" as 
the documented separation is not physically there.


I disagree. But then I could be wrong.
In the second (Canberra) example:
Where a solid line exists between the two groups of lanes there is a 
'legal barrier' that you cannot legally cross between the two groups of 
lanes (2 go right and 2 continues

 straight on).
Using the tag lanes does not convey this 'legal barrier'.
Also using the tag lanes how can the turn restrictions that exist be 
tagged, the right 2 must turn right and the left 2 must go straight on ?


The first one, in WA, appears less of an issue to me. Perhaps the 
separation nodes could be closer to where the ways actually diverge, 
somewhere around the mid-point of the dashed lines, rather than at the 
start of them.


The second one, near Canberra, has clearly diverged ways most of the 
way along the bridge.


This intersection in Melbourne could potentially serve as an example:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.93265/145.15653

Where there are actual medians between lanes, the ways separate, 
otherwise, they do not.


Hope I haven't spoken out of turn.  The views expressed above are my 
understanding of the guidelines with respect to mapping what is 
actually there.


Regards,

JohnB



On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:15 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Resend to include list :-(

Thanks

Graeme


-- Forwarded message -
From: *Graeme Fitzpatrick* mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 17:12
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Editing road geometry Australia
To: Petra Rajka - (p) mailto:petra.ra...@telenav.com>>



On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 16:19, Petra Rajka - (p)
mailto:petra.ra...@telenav.com>> wrote:

Hi everyone,

I’m Petra and I am part of the mapping team at Telenav.

Since January we started to work on road geometry in Canberra,
Perth and Melbourne and we came across some intersections
where roads (turn lanes) are mapped separately even where
there is no physical divider or chevron markings.


Sorry, Petra, but you've got me, at least, a bit confused?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.09137/116.01315
certainly appears to show traffic islands (better view with Esri
Clarity)

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/-35.34078/149.16289 has
marked "turn right only" lanes.

Sorry, can't see a problem with either of them, unless you're
looking at something I'm not seeing? :-)

Thanks

Graeme
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[talk-au] Editing signposts in Australia

[Ioana Moldovan - (p)]

Hi everyone!

This is Ioana and I am part of the mapping team at Telenav.

To make OpenStreetMap more navigable and accurate in guidance, our mapping team 
is planning to start editing signposts in Australia. We have done some research 
regarding the tagging guidelines and came across a few cases that we would like 
to hear your opinion about.

  1.  We observed that the non-alphanumeric highway shields (eg. NR, NH, S) do 
not appear as information at destination:ref but rather at destination:network 
(Perth and Brisbane) and network (rest of country). For example, please take a 
look at the signpost tags of the motorway_link from -37.7150366, 144.8349989 
(https://openstreetcam.org/details/1314639/589/track-info ). It has the 
following tags of interest:

network=S
ref=40

According to 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details, we 
would join them into destination:ref=S40. What do you think about adding the 
ref number that appears on signpost in this format?
  2.  Also, please take a look here: -32.0463458, 115.8528017 
(https://www.mapillary.com/app/?focus=photo=rW9JCy0hWN4nmwQK0pVHAg=-32.046444=115.853194=17).
 We would add the information from this signpost on the motorway_link from OSM 
as following:

destination:ref=NR1;S2
destination=Perth City

What do you think about this format? How would you add Fwy NORTH in OSM as it 
is not a specific destination:street but a cardinal direction?

Looking forward for your opinions!

Best wishes,
Ioana
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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Editing road geometry Australia

[Petra Rajka - (p)]

On this post you can find an image about how we would edit these cases: 
https://github.com/TelenavMapping/AU-NZ_mapping_projects/issues/5

Regards,
Petra
From: John Berkers 
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 10:51 AM
To: OSM-Au 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Editing road geometry Australia

Long time lurker, some time editor.

It is my understanding that marked "turn right only  lanes" are not cause to 
create divergent ways.  These should be tagged using the "lanes" key as per 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes

Creating divergent ways is considered "Tagging for the renderer" as the 
documented separation is not physically there.

The first one, in WA, appears less of an issue to me.  Perhaps the separation 
nodes could be closer to where the ways actually diverge, somewhere around the 
mid-point of the dashed lines, rather than at the start of them.

The second one, near Canberra, has clearly diverged ways most of the way along 
the bridge.

This intersection in Melbourne could potentially serve as an example:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.93265/145.15653

Where there are actual medians between lanes, the ways separate, otherwise, 
they do not.

Hope I haven't spoken out of turn.  The views expressed above are my 
understanding of the guidelines with respect to mapping what is actually there.

Regards,

JohnB



On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:15 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Resend to include list :-(

Thanks

Graeme

-- Forwarded message -
From: Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 17:12
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Editing road geometry Australia
To: Petra Rajka - (p) mailto:petra.ra...@telenav.com>>


On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 16:19, Petra Rajka - (p) 
mailto:petra.ra...@telenav.com>> wrote:
Hi everyone,

I’m Petra and I am part of the mapping team at Telenav.
Since January we started to work on road geometry in Canberra, Perth and 
Melbourne and we came across some intersections where roads (turn lanes) are 
mapped separately even where there is no physical divider or chevron markings.

Sorry, Petra, but you've got me, at least, a bit confused?

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.09137/116.01315 certainly appears 
to show traffic islands (better view with Esri Clarity)

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/-35.34078/149.16289 has marked "turn 
right only" lanes.

Sorry, can't see a problem with either of them, unless you're looking at 
something I'm not seeing? :-)

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Fwd: Editing road geometry Australia

[John Berkers]

Long time lurker, some time editor.

It is my understanding that marked "turn right only  lanes" are not cause
to create divergent ways.  These should be tagged using the "lanes" key as
per https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lanes

Creating divergent ways is considered "Tagging for the renderer" as the
documented separation is not physically there.

The first one, in WA, appears less of an issue to me.  Perhaps the
separation nodes could be closer to where the ways actually diverge,
somewhere around the mid-point of the dashed lines, rather than at the
start of them.

The second one, near Canberra, has clearly diverged ways most of the way
along the bridge.

This intersection in Melbourne could potentially serve as an example:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-37.93265/145.15653

Where there are actual medians between lanes, the ways separate, otherwise,
they do not.

Hope I haven't spoken out of turn.  The views expressed above are my
understanding of the guidelines with respect to mapping what is actually
there.

Regards,

JohnB



On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 6:15 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> Resend to include list :-(
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
> Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 17:12
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Editing road geometry Australia
> To: Petra Rajka - (p) 
>
>
>
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 16:19, Petra Rajka - (p) 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m Petra and I am part of the mapping team at Telenav.
>>
>> Since January we started to work on road geometry in Canberra, Perth and
>> Melbourne and we came across some intersections where roads (turn lanes)
>> are mapped separately even where there is no physical divider or chevron
>> markings.
>>
>
> Sorry, Petra, but you've got me, at least, a bit confused?
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=20/-32.09137/116.01315 certainly
> appears to show traffic islands (better view with Esri Clarity)
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/-35.34078/149.16289 has marked
> "turn right only" lanes.
>
> Sorry, can't see a problem with either of them, unless you're looking at
> something I'm not seeing? :-)
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
> ___
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