Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Benjamin Ceravolo]

I feel, as though discourage or discouraged is already an advisory term
(you can't advise a recommendation if advise is a synonym of recommend).

So I would think "motor_vehicle=discouraged" would be most appropriate.

Just my thoughts.

Ben

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 18:12, Luke Stewart 
wrote:

> Perhaps "motor_vehicle=discouraged"?
>
> From the wiki:
> A legal right of way exists (see yes
> ) but usage is
> officially discouraged (e.g., HGVs on narrow but passable lanes). Only if
> marked by a traffic sign (subjective otherwise).
>
> Although that may be getting too far away from the meaning of the sign,
> but the original intention is to discourage through and non-local traffic
>
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 15:31, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
>> I guess https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access does say "Access
>> values describe legal permissions/restrictions. What happens on the ground
>> may be different: for instance, many footpaths are used as de facto bike
>> paths, without a legal right to do so. (Various 'greyzone' tags have been
>> proposed to deal with such situations, but this is controversial and is not
>> described here.)"
>>
>> Similar to existing "maxspeed:advisory"
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:advisory perhaps if
>> these aren't legal restrictions but still signposted on the ground we could
>> use "motor_vehicle:advisory=destination". Does that work better?
>>
>> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 13:04, Luke Stewart 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As far as I have read, these signs are not enforceable by councils, nor
>>> do they appear in the NSW (or Australian) Road Rules. So unless the road
>>> itself is on private property and this sign is present, the access would
>>> still be public and it has the same meaning as discouraging the use of the
>>> street in favour of main roads.
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>>
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Luke Stewart]

Perhaps "motor_vehicle=discouraged"?

>From the wiki:
A legal right of way exists (see yes
) but usage is
officially discouraged (e.g., HGVs on narrow but passable lanes). Only if
marked by a traffic sign (subjective otherwise).

Although that may be getting too far away from the meaning of the sign, but
the original intention is to discourage through and non-local traffic

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 15:31, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> I guess https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access does say "Access
> values describe legal permissions/restrictions. What happens on the ground
> may be different: for instance, many footpaths are used as de facto bike
> paths, without a legal right to do so. (Various 'greyzone' tags have been
> proposed to deal with such situations, but this is controversial and is not
> described here.)"
>
> Similar to existing "maxspeed:advisory"
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:advisory perhaps if
> these aren't legal restrictions but still signposted on the ground we could
> use "motor_vehicle:advisory=destination". Does that work better?
>
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 13:04, Luke Stewart 
> wrote:
>
>> As far as I have read, these signs are not enforceable by councils, nor
>> do they appear in the NSW (or Australian) Road Rules. So unless the road
>> itself is on private property and this sign is present, the access would
>> still be public and it has the same meaning as discouraging the use of the
>> street in favour of main roads.
>> ___
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
>
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Re: [talk-au] New imageries in AU

[Ewen Hill]

*Nemanja,*
   Thank you for all the hard work. I am not a huge fan of using the Wiki
as a basis as it will require a lot of work to keep it updated and if Alice
Springs is updated, who will notice?

 Unless we could visualise the latest imagery by dates automatically, I
would suggest that you just need to pop back and visit quarterly. Perhaps
we could take a snapshot of tiles in specific place.to check for variances?

  Also on another note, can you let your team know that most streams and
rivers are intermittent outside the east coast Great Dividing Range and
coastal areas and unless it declared a river, then it is probably a stream.
A lot of Australia will appear to have stream lines but in reality will
only be streams for exceedingly short periods after a thunderstorm.  There
are a few rivers being added into OSM in the desert by the team that
probably haven't seen water for 8 years as permanent and that you need to
add fords or bridges to existing highways.

Have a great weekend

Ewen



On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 15:28, Andrew Harvey  wrote:

> Active mappers who regularly check out the different imagery layers can
> usually tell when one gets refreshed with new imagery, but it does vary a
> lot based on location.
>
> What if we had a wiki page, that tried to loosely track imagery freshness.
>
> eg. just a list of cities Sydney with info like "currently freshest is
> Maxar". or "ESRI appeared to refresh within the last 6 months", etc. What
> do you think?
>
> Keep in mind (this is even something I need to do better at), when
> armchair mapping from aerial imagery or street level imagery it's always a
> good idea to check the last edit date of the feature you're editing. If
> it's a few years old then it's usually safe to replace, but if it's within
> the last 6 months it could well be more current than the imagery.
>
> On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 01:58, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au <
> talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>>
>> Do we have any possibility to be informed once there is a new imagery
>> published by other providers (Maxar, Esri, Mapbox, etc.)?
>>
>> We are trying to develop the process which will involve constant update
>> of AU map, but we are not sure how to focus to areas which might have most
>> recent imagery?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you in advance,
>>
>> Nemanja
>> ___
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>>
> ___
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-- 
Warm Regards

Ewen Hill
Internet Development Australia
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Andrew Harvey]

I guess https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access does say "Access
values describe legal permissions/restrictions. What happens on the ground
may be different: for instance, many footpaths are used as de facto bike
paths, without a legal right to do so. (Various 'greyzone' tags have been
proposed to deal with such situations, but this is controversial and is not
described here.)"

Similar to existing "maxspeed:advisory"
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:advisory perhaps if these
aren't legal restrictions but still signposted on the ground we could use
"motor_vehicle:advisory=destination". Does that work better?

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 13:04, Luke Stewart 
wrote:

> As far as I have read, these signs are not enforceable by councils, nor do
> they appear in the NSW (or Australian) Road Rules. So unless the road
> itself is on private property and this sign is present, the access would
> still be public and it has the same meaning as discouraging the use of the
> street in favour of main roads.
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
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Re: [talk-au] New imageries in AU

[Andrew Harvey]

Active mappers who regularly check out the different imagery layers can
usually tell when one gets refreshed with new imagery, but it does vary a
lot based on location.

What if we had a wiki page, that tried to loosely track imagery freshness.

eg. just a list of cities Sydney with info like "currently freshest is
Maxar". or "ESRI appeared to refresh within the last 6 months", etc. What
do you think?

Keep in mind (this is even something I need to do better at), when armchair
mapping from aerial imagery or street level imagery it's always a good idea
to check the last edit date of the feature you're editing. If it's a few
years old then it's usually safe to replace, but if it's within the last 6
months it could well be more current than the imagery.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 01:58, Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au <
talk-au@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Do we have any possibility to be informed once there is a new imagery
> published by other providers (Maxar, Esri, Mapbox, etc.)?
>
> We are trying to develop the process which will involve constant update of
> AU map, but we are not sure how to focus to areas which might have most
> recent imagery?
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Nemanja
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Missing Maps/OSM rep?

[Michael Collinson]

Hi Vitva,

If you don't get any other volunteers, I'll be happy to come along and 
answer questions/talk ad hoc but not prepare a talk. I'm not familiar 
with Missing Maps but have previously served on the OSM Foundation board.


Cheers,

Mike

Michael Collinson

On 2019-11-08 13:13, Vilppola, Ritva wrote:


Hi Team,

WSP is holding a Missing Maps Mapathon next Thursday 5-8pm and we’re 
just wondering if there is anyone in Melbourne available to rep for 
OSM/Missing Maps for the evening?


We will also be getting in a speaker from MSF to attend so it would be 
great to have someone from OSM promote what it’s all about and ways 
people can get involved locally!


Cheers,

*Ritva**Vilppola*
Sustainability Consultant




T: +7 3535 1518

ritva.vilpp...@wsp.com

WSP Australia Pty Limited
900 Ann Street, Level 12
Fortitude Valley
4006  Australia

*wsp.com *












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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Warin]

There is one group of roads with these kinds of signs. As they are on 
Forestry Commission property and would be maintained by them I would 
think they have some control over who uses them.


On 08/11/19 10:24, Andrew Harvey wrote:
The fact that they are not legally enforceable I think is irrelevant, 
after all you can always tell your router to ignore access=destination 
if you like. Rather this tagging accurately reflects the officially 
signposted "recommendation".


I agree they are targeted at vehicles, so that's why I'd recommend 
motor_vehicle=destination rather than a blanket access=destination.


On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 10:05, Ian Sergeant > wrote:


I disagree with this one

1. I'm pretty sure they are not intended to have any effect to
cyclists and pedestrians.  Who are generally encouraged to use
these kinds of streets.  I wouldn't like to think we're putting
access restrictions that are going to cause walking/cycling
routing issues.

2. I'm also not sure these signs have any legal effect at all. 
They aren't privately owned.  The signs are just street
decorations.  I'd be inclined to

Ian.


On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 22:36, Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I would agree with David on this.
In that way you will avoid routing thru these streets unless
your destination is there.

Sent from my phone

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 12:33 David Wales mailto:daviewa...@disroot.org>> wrote:

I would use access=destination

On 7 November 2019 10:21:26 pm AEDT, Sebastian Spiess
mailto:mapp...@consebt.de>> wrote:

Hello List,

how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one?
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw

Followinghttps://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access  states 
"...Note
that "access only for residents" is private..."

Would this not break navigation in apps etc?





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Re: [talk-au] Melbourne Missing Maps/OSM rep?

[Edoardo Neerhut]

I'll be in New Zealand for FOSS4G SotM Oceania
, but keep me posted for the next one as
I would love to help out.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 13:14, Vilppola, Ritva  wrote:

> Hi Team,
>
>
>
> WSP is holding a Missing Maps Mapathon next Thursday 5-8pm and we’re just
> wondering if there is anyone in Melbourne available to rep for OSM/Missing
> Maps for the evening?
>
>
>
> We will also be getting in a speaker from MSF to attend so it would be
> great to have someone from OSM promote what it’s all about and ways people
> can get involved locally!
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> *Ritva* *Vilppola*
> Sustainability Consultant
>
>
> 
>
> T: +7 3535 1518
>
> ritva.vilpp...@wsp.com
>
> WSP Australia Pty Limited
> 900 Ann Street, Level 12
> Fortitude Valley
> 4006  Australia
>
> *wsp.com *
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> NOTICE: This communication and any attachments ("this message") may
> contain information which is privileged, confidential, proprietary or
> otherwise subject to restricted disclosure under applicable law. This
> message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized
> use, disclosure, viewing, copying, alteration, dissemination or
> distribution of, or reliance on, this message is strictly prohibited. If
> you have received this message in error, or you are not an authorized or
> intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by replying to
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>
>
>
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[talk-au] Melbourne Missing Maps/OSM rep?

[Vilppola, Ritva]

Hi Team,

WSP is holding a Missing Maps Mapathon next Thursday 5-8pm and we're just 
wondering if there is anyone in Melbourne available to rep for OSM/Missing Maps 
for the evening?

We will also be getting in a speaker from MSF to attend so it would be great to 
have someone from OSM promote what it's all about and ways people can get 
involved locally!

Cheers,

Ritva Vilppola
Sustainability Consultant


[cid:image001.jpg@01D5962D.E491C1F0]

T: +7 3535 1518

ritva.vilpp...@wsp.com

WSP Australia Pty Limited
900 Ann Street, Level 12
Fortitude Valley
4006  Australia

wsp.com







NOTICE: This communication and any attachments ("this message") may contain 
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Luke Stewart]

As far as I have read, these signs are not enforceable by councils, nor do
they appear in the NSW (or Australian) Road Rules. So unless the road
itself is on private property and this sign is present, the access would
still be public and it has the same meaning as discouraging the use of the
street in favour of main roads.
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Andrew Harvey]

The fact that they are not legally enforceable I think is irrelevant, after
all you can always tell your router to ignore access=destination if you
like. Rather this tagging accurately reflects the officially signposted
"recommendation".

I agree they are targeted at vehicles, so that's why I'd recommend
motor_vehicle=destination rather than a blanket access=destination.

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 10:05, Ian Sergeant  wrote:

> I disagree with this one
>
> 1. I'm pretty sure they are not intended to have any effect to cyclists
> and pedestrians.  Who are generally encouraged to use these kinds of
> streets.  I wouldn't like to think we're putting access restrictions that
> are going to cause walking/cycling routing issues.
>
> 2. I'm also not sure these signs have any legal effect at all.  They
> aren't privately owned.  The signs are just street decorations.  I'd be
> inclined to
>
> Ian.
>
>
> On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 22:36, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:
>
>> I would agree with David on this.
>> In that way you will avoid routing thru these streets unless your
>> destination is there.
>>
>> Sent from my phone
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 12:33 David Wales  wrote:
>>
>>> I would use access=destination
>>>
>>> On 7 November 2019 10:21:26 pm AEDT, Sebastian Spiess <
>>> mapp...@consebt.de> wrote:

 Hello List,

 how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one?
 https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw

 Following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access states "...Note
 that "access only for residents" is private..."

 Would this not break navigation in apps etc?
 --
 Talk-au mailing list
 Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
 https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

 ___
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Ian Sergeant]

I disagree with this one

1. I'm pretty sure they are not intended to have any effect to cyclists and
pedestrians.  Who are generally encouraged to use these kinds of streets.
I wouldn't like to think we're putting access restrictions that are going
to cause walking/cycling routing issues.

2. I'm also not sure these signs have any legal effect at all.  They aren't
privately owned.  The signs are just street decorations.  I'd be inclined
to

Ian.


On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 22:36, Nemanja Bračko  wrote:

> I would agree with David on this.
> In that way you will avoid routing thru these streets unless your
> destination is there.
>
> Sent from my phone
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 12:33 David Wales  wrote:
>
>> I would use access=destination
>>
>> On 7 November 2019 10:21:26 pm AEDT, Sebastian Spiess 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello List,
>>>
>>> how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one?
>>> https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw
>>>
>>> Following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access states "...Note
>>> that "access only for residents" is private..."
>>>
>>> Would this not break navigation in apps etc?
>>> --
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>>
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[talk-au] New imageries in AU

[Nemanja Bracko (E-Search) via Talk-au]

Hi all,

Do we have any possibility to be informed once there is a new imagery published 
by other providers (Maxar, Esri, Mapbox, etc.)?
We are trying to develop the process which will involve constant update of AU 
map, but we are not sure how to focus to areas which might have most recent 
imagery?

Thank you in advance,
Nemanja
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Nemanja Bračko]

I would agree with David on this.
In that way you will avoid routing thru these streets unless your
destination is there.

Sent from my phone

On Thu, Nov 7, 2019, 12:33 David Wales  wrote:

> I would use access=destination
>
> On 7 November 2019 10:21:26 pm AEDT, Sebastian Spiess 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello List,
>>
>> how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one?
>> https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw
>>
>> Following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access states "...Note
>> that "access only for residents" is private..."
>>
>> Would this not break navigation in apps etc?
>> --
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>> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[Andrew Harvey]

access=destination, or better yet motor_vehicle=destination (since it
probably shouldn't affect foot traffic) The wiki it says "Only when
travelling to this element/area; i.e., local traffic only." which is what
this imlies that if you're going to somewhere along here you can travel,
but not if you're just passing through.

I've used this tag for the exact same type of sign. You'd hope that
navigation would then avoid routing through these roads unless you have a
waypoint or destination along the road.

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 22:23, Sebastian Spiess  wrote:

> Hello List,
>
> how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one?
> https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw
>
> Following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access states "...Note
> that "access only for residents" is private..."
>
> Would this not break navigation in apps etc?
>
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Re: [talk-au] local traffic only

[David Wales]

I would use access=destination

On 7 November 2019 10:21:26 pm AEDT, Sebastian Spiess  
wrote:
>Hello List,
>
>how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one? 
>https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw
>
>Following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access states
>"...Note 
>that "access only for residents" is private..."
>
>Would this not break navigation in apps etc?
>
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[talk-au] local traffic only

[Sebastian Spiess]

Hello List,

how do you map a 'local traffic only' sign as this one? 
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/FkY8gmlGX2NmhUARyveMQw


Following https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access states "...Note 
that "access only for residents" is private..."


Would this not break navigation in apps etc?

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