Re: [talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 13:22, Michael James  wrote:

>
>
> Not sure QAS offers any walk up facilities anymore, the local one here has
> a phone out the front to call for help.
>

Think it may depend a lot on the size of the town?

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 13:28, Andrew Davidson  wrote:

>
> I only get 202 for QLD https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/XGU. Are you searching
> for something other than amenity=hospital and healthcare=hospital ?
>

I searched just amenity=hospital.

Maybe I'm mis-reading the results as it came back:
Loaded – nodes: 2092, ways: 159, relations: 4
Displayed – pois: 72, lines: 0, polygons: 150
So does that make 2255 / 222 / or a different tally?

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 at 15:11, cleary  wrote:

>
>  If this is all the community has and they regard it as their "hospital"
> then I feel reluctant to take it away.
>

Fair enough, & I must admit to having that same thought after I raised it?

The Burketown clinic is NOT a "medical centre". "Medical practitoners"
> (often referred to as "doctors") have a special status in legislation and
> it would usually expected that only registered medical practitioners
> practise in a "medical centre".


I wasn't aware of that? I wonder if that's why a few of them around here
have changed their names over the last while from xxx Medical Centre to xxx
Medical Clinic?

"Amenity=clinic" would probably be the other tag I can suggest, even if the
> Burketown clinic might not satisfy wiki requirements for that tag either.


Until I just looked at the requirements, I wasn't aware of the +/- 10 staff
criteria! I've possibly mapped a few clinics that shouldn't be.

Perhaps the Australian Guidelines should permit the "hospital" tag where
> that is consistent with usage of the term by the local community.


Fair call - once again, comments / thoughts?

Thanks

Graeme
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

[cleary]

The term "hospital" is subject to a lot of interpretation and is an emotionally 
laden issue in many rural communities.

Many of the "hospitals" mapped in NSW rural areas (and presumably in other 
states) do not satisfy the OSM definition of "hospital" and some would not 
satisfy the definition of "clinic" depending on whether the 10 staff (as 
specified in the OSM wiki) should be there at any one time or could be rostered 
one, two or three at a time over the many hours of each working week. These 
health facilities are important to their communities and to visitors. If this 
is all the community has and they regard it as their "hospital" then I feel 
reluctant to take it away.

In the event of an accident or urgent illness, where would local residents or 
visitors go?  They will usually tell you to go to the "hospital" (irrespective 
of its official title).  If one referred to a local map in an emergency, one 
would hope the nearest emergency treatment centre would be clearly identifiable 
on the map.

I reckon the locals would regard the Burketown facility as their hospital even 
if it is not so named and even if it does not satisfy OSM criteria. Further, 
the Queensland Health webpage states that the Burketown clinic provides limited 
"hospital services".  

The Burketown clinic is NOT a "medical centre". "Medical practitoners" (often 
referred to as "doctors") have a special status in legislation and it would 
usually expected that only registered medical practitioners practise in a 
"medical centre". Anyone other than a doctor would work strictly under the 
direction of medical practitioners in that location. That is not how hospitals 
or public health services operate. To my knowledge, "medical centres" in 
Australia are always operated by doctors in private practice. I am confident 
that would not be the case in Burketown.

"Amenity=clinic" would probably be the other tag I can suggest, even if the 
Burketown clinic might not satisfy wiki requirements for that tag either.  
Perhaps the Australian Guidelines should permit the "hospital" tag where that 
is consistent with usage of the term by the local community.   










On Fri, 4 Sep 2020, at 2:51 AM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> Over the last few days, I've spotted a few places marked as hospitals 
> that aren't.
> 
> Locally, there were two Aged Care homes, then as I looked around 
> further, I spotted another Aged Care home, an Ambulance station in a 
> small country town & an SES station!
> 
> The Ambo station I could almost relate to, as that's where you go for 
> any medical emergency, but none of the others. Incidentally, there is 
> hopefully some progress on them being rendered? 
> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3968
> 
> I did an Overpass search for Qld & found ~2100 "hospitals", which seems 
> like a lot?  https://overpass-turbo.eu/# (Don't know if that works or 
> not?), & checking at random, found more Ambo's, Doctor's surgeries & so 
> on also marked.
> 
> I did notice, though, a few of these: 
> https://www.health.qld.gov.au/services/northwest/nwest_burket_hc
> 
> Personally, I would call that a Medical Centre, not a Hospital?, while 
> this https://www.health.qld.gov.au/cq/hospitals/blackwater/services 
> with A & inpatients *is* a Hospital.
> 
> What do you all think?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Graeme
> ___
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>

___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

[Andrew Davidson]

On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 12:53 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

>
> I did an Overpass search for Qld & found ~2100 "hospitals", which seems
> like a lot?  https://overpass-turbo.eu/# (Don't know if that works or
> not?), & checking at random, found more Ambo's, Doctor's surgeries & so on
> also marked.
>
>
I only get 202 for QLD https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/XGU. Are you searching
for something other than amenity=hospital and healthcare=hospital ?
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

[Michael James]

That list is for Queensland Health operated facilities not just hospitals so 
yes your right in that particular site would not be a hospital per se.

Not sure where you find a list of accredited hospitals but it is a thing as I 
live in a street with 2 facilities that are accredited as hospitals but only 
one calls itself a hospital.

Not sure QAS offers any walk up facilities anymore, the local one here has a 
phone out the front to call for help.

Michael


From: Graeme Fitzpatrick 
Sent: Friday, 4 September 2020 12:51 PM
To: OSM-Au 
Subject: [talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

Over the last few days, I've spotted a few places marked as hospitals that 
aren't.

Locally, there were two Aged Care homes, then as I looked around further, I 
spotted another Aged Care home, an Ambulance station in a small country town & 
an SES station!

The Ambo station I could almost relate to, as that's where you go for any 
medical emergency, but none of the others. Incidentally, there is hopefully 
some progress on them being rendered? 
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3968

I did an Overpass search for Qld & found ~2100 "hospitals", which seems like a 
lot?  https://overpass-turbo.eu/# (Don't know if 
that works or not?), & checking at random, found more Ambo's, Doctor's 
surgeries & so on also marked.

I did notice, though, a few of these: 
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/services/northwest/nwest_burket_hc

Personally, I would call that a Medical Centre, not a Hospital?, while this 
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/cq/hospitals/blackwater/services with A & 
inpatients is a Hospital.

What do you all think?

Thanks

Graeme
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

[talk-au] Are Health Centres, hospitals

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

Over the last few days, I've spotted a few places marked as hospitals that
aren't.

Locally, there were two Aged Care homes, then as I looked around further, I
spotted another Aged Care home, an Ambulance station in a small country
town & an SES station!

The Ambo station I could almost relate to, as that's where you go for any
medical emergency, but none of the others. Incidentally, there is hopefully
some progress on them being rendered?
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3968

I did an Overpass search for Qld & found ~2100 "hospitals", which seems
like a lot?  https://overpass-turbo.eu/# (Don't know if that works or
not?), & checking at random, found more Ambo's, Doctor's surgeries & so on
also marked.

I did notice, though, a few of these:
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/services/northwest/nwest_burket_hc

Personally, I would call that a Medical Centre, not a Hospital?, while this
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/cq/hospitals/blackwater/services with A &
inpatients *is* a Hospital.

What do you all think?

Thanks

Graeme
___
Talk-au mailing list
Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au

Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth,

[Ian Steer]

>Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2020 19:23:21 +1000
>From: "Sebastian S." 
>Subject: Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth,
>   Australia
>Hi,
>I have made excessive use of the node tag for islands.
>Particularly for pedestrian crossing.
>
>Splitting the road into two separate ways for only a few metres seems 
>excessive to me. Even when there is a several Meter long raised kerb 
>separating the lanes I would not >split the road.

Could you please elaborate on this method you have been using ?

Ian


On 1 September 2020 10:05:42 pm AEST, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>Heads up, looks like their team has started to map in Perth, see on 
>OSMCha
>-> https://osmcha.org/?aoi=80b50a6d-6bb5-48cb-8ac4-4b2ddd9d5d76
>
>Mostly looks okay to me, and mostly minor tweaks, though I raised a few 
>questions and issues on changeset comments but also listed most of them
>here:
>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840589945/history was added but the 
>existing road name and other applicable attributes were not applied.
>This
>same issue happens in quite a few other places too so appears to be 
>systemic. I've raised some changeset comments but worth including this 
>as part of the standard practice by your editing team.
>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/842851495/history is that a 
>roundabout? I can't tell from the Maxar imagery, yet that is the 
>claimed source, how could you tell from the imagery what this is?
>
>I personally find splitting ways for a traffic island at roundabouts 
>like in https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840189281/history a tad to 
>excessive (would prefer to just tag the node as traffic island and use 
>one way, gives a much cleaner dataset as the transition between dual 
>and single carriageways is always messy) but I guess it's not wrong and 
>both styles are popular in OSM currently. Does the community have a 
>view on this?
>
>Unclear source of the turn restriction in
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/90223764#map=18/-32.04553/115.8
>0953
>
>On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 21:28, OSM NextBillion. AI 
>wrote:
>
>> Thank you cleary for valuable insights, we would be more cautious
>while
>> mapping in such areas. While Satellite Imagery is our prime resource,
>we’d
>> consider mapillary photos as well wherever available. We do have some 
>> expert assistance in our team for interpreting satellite imagery and
>map
>> something only if we’re double sure of it’s existence. We will refer
>to
>> mappers history before editing existing data to understand if it was 
>> created using local expertise and would change only if there is
>conclusive
>> evidence from satellite and mapillary imageries.
>>
>> We will reach out to local mapping experts through forum and/or
>changeset
>> comments if we require further help.
>>
>> Thank you all once again for the suggestions, we look forward to
>working
>> with you all. :)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 05:35, cleary  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the interest in mapping in Australia and thanks for
>posting
>>> your plans on this list.
>>>
>>> I would add to the caution expressed by others.  I live in an urban 
>>> location in Australia but I have travelled in other areas within 
>>> Australia.  It has taken me quite some time to learn to interpret
>satellite
>>> imagery and I still have a lot to learn about this country.  After 
>>> personally visiting areas and noting what I see, and sometimes
>taking
>>> photographs, I then return home and compare my notes with what I see
>in the
>>> imagery and I am still surprised.  I think it can be quite
>precarious to
>>> map features using just satellite imagery unless you have expert
>assistance
>>> in interpreting the imagery.  For example, a common error by others
>has
>>> been to map lines of cleared vegetation as roads when they are
>actually
>>> fences. Even where an unmapped road exists, it is probably still
>unmapped
>>> because it is a private road and not accessible by the public - many
>of the
>>> roads on rural properties in Australia are private and, if added to
>the
>>> map, need to marked as such. Farmers get annoyed about intruders on
>their
>>> farms especially as biosecurity is a significant concern in parts of 
>>> Australia.
>>>
>>> So while I appreciate contributions to the map, I suggest that
>"armchair"
>>> mapping needs to be undertaken with a lot of caution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020, at 2:17 AM, OSM NextBillion. AI wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be
>doing
>>> > minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of 
>>> > weeks, in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines
>[Link
>>> >
>].
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Please refer our Wiki
>>> >  and
>Github
>>> >  project pages
>for
>>> > more information.
>>> >
>>> > Looking 

Re: [talk-au] Contributions to Road Geometry in Perth, Australia

[Sebastian S.]

Hi,
I have made excessive use of the node tag for islands.
Particularly for pedestrian crossing.

Splitting the road into two separate ways for only a few metres seems excessive 
to me. Even when there is a several Meter long raised kerb separating the lanes 
I would not split the road.




On 1 September 2020 10:05:42 pm AEST, Andrew Harvey  
wrote:
>Heads up, looks like their team has started to map in Perth, see on
>OSMCha
>-> https://osmcha.org/?aoi=80b50a6d-6bb5-48cb-8ac4-4b2ddd9d5d76
>
>Mostly looks okay to me, and mostly minor tweaks, though I raised a few
>questions and issues on changeset comments but also listed most of them
>here:
>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840589945/history was added but the
>existing road name and other applicable attributes were not applied.
>This
>same issue happens in quite a few other places too so appears to be
>systemic. I've raised some changeset comments but worth including this
>as
>part of the standard practice by your editing team.
>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/842851495/history is that a
>roundabout? I
>can't tell from the Maxar imagery, yet that is the claimed source, how
>could you tell from the imagery what this is?
>
>I personally find splitting ways for a traffic island at roundabouts
>like
>in https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/840189281/history a tad to
>excessive
>(would prefer to just tag the node as traffic island and use one way,
>gives
>a much cleaner dataset as the transition between dual and single
>carriageways is always messy) but I guess it's not wrong and both
>styles
>are popular in OSM currently. Does the community have a view on this?
>
>Unclear source of the turn restriction in
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/90223764#map=18/-32.04553/115.80953
>
>On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 21:28, OSM NextBillion. AI 
>wrote:
>
>> Thank you cleary for valuable insights, we would be more cautious
>while
>> mapping in such areas. While Satellite Imagery is our prime resource,
>we’d
>> consider mapillary photos as well wherever available. We do have some
>> expert assistance in our team for interpreting satellite imagery and
>map
>> something only if we’re double sure of it’s existence. We will refer
>to
>> mappers history before editing existing data to understand if it was
>> created using local expertise and would change only if there is
>conclusive
>> evidence from satellite and mapillary imageries.
>>
>> We will reach out to local mapping experts through forum and/or
>changeset
>> comments if we require further help.
>>
>> Thank you all once again for the suggestions, we look forward to
>working
>> with you all. :)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 at 05:35, cleary  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the interest in mapping in Australia and thanks for
>posting
>>> your plans on this list.
>>>
>>> I would add to the caution expressed by others.  I live in an urban
>>> location in Australia but I have travelled in other areas within
>>> Australia.  It has taken me quite some time to learn to interpret
>satellite
>>> imagery and I still have a lot to learn about this country.  After
>>> personally visiting areas and noting what I see, and sometimes
>taking
>>> photographs, I then return home and compare my notes with what I see
>in the
>>> imagery and I am still surprised.  I think it can be quite
>precarious to
>>> map features using just satellite imagery unless you have expert
>assistance
>>> in interpreting the imagery.  For example, a common error by others
>has
>>> been to map lines of cleared vegetation as roads when they are
>actually
>>> fences. Even where an unmapped road exists, it is probably still
>unmapped
>>> because it is a private road and not accessible by the public - many
>of the
>>> roads on rural properties in Australia are private and, if added to
>the
>>> map, need to marked as such. Farmers get annoyed about intruders on
>their
>>> farms especially as biosecurity is a significant concern in parts of
>>> Australia.
>>>
>>> So while I appreciate contributions to the map, I suggest that
>"armchair"
>>> mapping needs to be undertaken with a lot of caution.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020, at 2:17 AM, OSM NextBillion. AI wrote:
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > We’re a small team based out of Hyderabad, India. We would be
>doing
>>> > minimal edits in Perth and contribute to OSM in the next couple of
>>> > weeks, in-line with OSM and Australia specific tagging guidelines
>[Link
>>> >
>].
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Please refer our Wiki
>>> >  and
>Github
>>> >  project pages
>for
>>> > more information.
>>> >
>>> > Looking forward to suggestions, if any ☺
>>> >
>>> > Thanking you in advance,
>>> > Team NextBillion
>>> > ___
>>> > Talk-au mailing list
>>> > Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
>>> >