Re: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)

2017-02-24 Thread Michaël Dierick 

My view on the "dock-definitions":

dock=tidal : A dock which follows the tide of the river/sea it is 
connected to, it doesn't have any locks. (example: Deurganckdock Antwerp)


dock=floating : "a dock 
 alongside a tidal 
waterway that maintains a constant level, despite the changing tides." ( 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_dock_(impounded) ). This constant 
level is maintained by locks. I believe this is what most people 
understand by "dock".
The "impounding"-part in the wikipedia definition 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_dock_(impounded)#Impounding) 
refers to the operation of maintaining this high level (naturally vs 
mechanically).


dock=drydock : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_dock (listed correctly 
in OSM wiki).


What currently is stated as the definition of "dock=floating" in the OSM 
wiki is imho just a specific type of drydock (a floating drydock).


Michaël

On 02/24/2017 10:26 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:41 AM, joost schouppe
 wrote:

That raises the question: how do you tag a dock that is in fact affected by
tides? I did not seem to find a tag for that, did you guys?

Is that a dock after all ? According to the wiki page for dock

"The waterway=dock tag is used to identify an enclosed area of water
for ships and other craft within which the height of the water can be
managed."

If it is not managed (i.e. affected by tides), it's not a dock ?

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)

2017-02-24 Thread Marc Gemis 
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:41 AM, joost schouppe
 wrote:
> That raises the question: how do you tag a dock that is in fact affected by
> tides? I did not seem to find a tag for that, did you guys?

Is that a dock after all ? According to the wiki page for dock

"The waterway=dock tag is used to identify an enclosed area of water
for ships and other craft within which the height of the water can be
managed."

If it is not managed (i.e. affected by tides), it's not a dock ?

m

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)

2017-02-23 Thread joost schouppe 
OK, so now I actually read it:

According to wikipedia a floating or impounded dock is a dock isolated from
changing tides through locks.

dock=floating is used for floating dry docks (something completely
different)

dock=tidal is used for what wikipedia describes as an impounded dock

The second one is a bit strange, as I would think that implies dock=tidal
equals "a dock that is not tidal" :)

That raises the question: how do you tag a dock that is in fact affected by
tides? I did not seem to find a tag for that, did you guys?

2017-02-24 8:30 GMT+01:00 joost schouppe <joost.schou...@gmail.com>:

> I'll pass the issue with definition of tidal vs floating on to the tagging
> mailing list to see if there is some strange logic behind it we're missing;
> and report back here.
>
> 2017-02-24 0:12 GMT+01:00 Vincent Van Eyken <vincent.vaney...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Indeed many (most) docks in the Port of Antwerp are tagged twice / are
>> represented by 2 entities in OSM: once as an area (with waterway=dock) and
>> once as a linear way (waterway=canal). And I admit to be partly responsible
>> for tagging those docks like that.
>>
>> Here is my take on the reason behind that scheme:
>> - those docks are relatively large bodies of water, hence the requirement
>> for the area to be mapped, with the according waterway=dock tag.
>> - but they are also used as navigable waterways, similar to highways, and
>> therefore (also) need a linear element, running along their centre
>> line/thalweg, to easily enable (logical) route calculation; e.g. brouter
>> already provides route calculation along waterway lines [1]
>> As a linear element, their function is imho more like that of a canal,
>> hence the waterway=canal. Of course, this especially makes sense for an
>> actual "Kanaaldok", but it might be disputable for a dock with only 1
>> entry/exit (like a "cul-de-sac")
>>
>> So basically it is very similar to the tagging scheme for (large) natural
>> rivers[2]: a linear, navigable way (waterway=river), combined with one or
>> more closed areas (waterway=riverbank), or the "street/highway area" scheme
>> for very detailed mapping of roads.
>>
>> The messy rendering is of course a result of the fact that both line and
>> area carry the same name, but I suppose that in itself is not a valid
>> reason for change.
>>
>> As to the types of docks on the wiki: certainly the description for
>> dock=tidal does seem counterintuitive or even wrong... not sure what to
>> make of it...
>>
>>
>> [1] http://brouter.de/brouter-web/#zoom=12=51.3012=4.328
>> 6=OpenStreetMap=4.277115,51.346912|4.412899,
>> 51.254556==river=0=geojson
>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rivers
>>
>>
>>
>> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
>> Van: Michaël Dierick [mailto:mich...@dierick.io]
>> Verzonden: vrijdag 10 februari 2017 18:20
>> Aan: talk-be@openstreetmap.org
>> Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> While looking around on the map at the port of Antwerp I noticed some
>> docks are tagged as a waterway=dock as well as canals (waterway=canal)
>> which results in a somewhat messy rendering ... any ideas on this? (do
>> docks need to be tagged as canal as well)?
>> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.2551/4.3808)
>>
>> Further when looking at the wiki the definitions of dock=tidal and
>> dock=floating seem somewhat mixed up (see wikipedia @
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_dock_(impounded) and
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_(maritime)#British_English ) ...
>> could someone confirm this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Michaël
>>
>> PS: In maritime environments OSM is used quite a lot (indirectly) through
>> www.marinetraffic.com
>>
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>> Talk-be mailing list
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Joost Schouppe
> OpenStreetMap <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> |
> Twitter <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603> | Meetup
> <http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/>
>



-- 
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Twitter <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)

2017-02-23 Thread joost schouppe 
I'll pass the issue with definition of tidal vs floating on to the tagging
mailing list to see if there is some strange logic behind it we're missing;
and report back here.

2017-02-24 0:12 GMT+01:00 Vincent Van Eyken <vincent.vaney...@gmail.com>:

> Indeed many (most) docks in the Port of Antwerp are tagged twice / are
> represented by 2 entities in OSM: once as an area (with waterway=dock) and
> once as a linear way (waterway=canal). And I admit to be partly responsible
> for tagging those docks like that.
>
> Here is my take on the reason behind that scheme:
> - those docks are relatively large bodies of water, hence the requirement
> for the area to be mapped, with the according waterway=dock tag.
> - but they are also used as navigable waterways, similar to highways, and
> therefore (also) need a linear element, running along their centre
> line/thalweg, to easily enable (logical) route calculation; e.g. brouter
> already provides route calculation along waterway lines [1]
> As a linear element, their function is imho more like that of a canal,
> hence the waterway=canal. Of course, this especially makes sense for an
> actual "Kanaaldok", but it might be disputable for a dock with only 1
> entry/exit (like a "cul-de-sac")
>
> So basically it is very similar to the tagging scheme for (large) natural
> rivers[2]: a linear, navigable way (waterway=river), combined with one or
> more closed areas (waterway=riverbank), or the "street/highway area" scheme
> for very detailed mapping of roads.
>
> The messy rendering is of course a result of the fact that both line and
> area carry the same name, but I suppose that in itself is not a valid
> reason for change.
>
> As to the types of docks on the wiki: certainly the description for
> dock=tidal does seem counterintuitive or even wrong... not sure what to
> make of it...
>
>
> [1] http://brouter.de/brouter-web/#zoom=12=51.3012=4.
> 3286=OpenStreetMap=4.277115,51.346912|4.
> 412899,51.254556==river=0=geojson
> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rivers
>
>
>
> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Michaël Dierick [mailto:mich...@dierick.io]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 10 februari 2017 18:20
> Aan: talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)
>
> Hi,
>
> While looking around on the map at the port of Antwerp I noticed some
> docks are tagged as a waterway=dock as well as canals (waterway=canal)
> which results in a somewhat messy rendering ... any ideas on this? (do
> docks need to be tagged as canal as well)?
> (https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.2551/4.3808)
>
> Further when looking at the wiki the definitions of dock=tidal and
> dock=floating seem somewhat mixed up (see wikipedia @
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_dock_(impounded) and
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_(maritime)#British_English ) ...
> could someone confirm this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Michaël
>
> PS: In maritime environments OSM is used quite a lot (indirectly) through
> www.marinetraffic.com
>
> ___
> Talk-be mailing list
> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
>
>
> ___
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>



-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> |
Twitter <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603> | Meetup
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)

2017-02-23 Thread Vincent Van Eyken 
Indeed many (most) docks in the Port of Antwerp are tagged twice / are 
represented by 2 entities in OSM: once as an area (with waterway=dock) and once 
as a linear way (waterway=canal). And I admit to be partly responsible for 
tagging those docks like that. 

Here is my take on the reason behind that scheme:
- those docks are relatively large bodies of water, hence the requirement for 
the area to be mapped, with the according waterway=dock tag.
- but they are also used as navigable waterways, similar to highways, and 
therefore (also) need a linear element, running along their centre 
line/thalweg, to easily enable (logical) route calculation; e.g. brouter 
already provides route calculation along waterway lines [1]
As a linear element, their function is imho more like that of a canal, hence 
the waterway=canal. Of course, this especially makes sense for an actual 
"Kanaaldok", but it might be disputable for a dock with only 1 entry/exit (like 
a "cul-de-sac")

So basically it is very similar to the tagging scheme for (large) natural 
rivers[2]: a linear, navigable way (waterway=river), combined with one or more 
closed areas (waterway=riverbank), or the "street/highway area" scheme for very 
detailed mapping of roads.

The messy rendering is of course a result of the fact that both line and area 
carry the same name, but I suppose that in itself is not a valid reason for 
change.

As to the types of docks on the wiki: certainly the description for dock=tidal 
does seem counterintuitive or even wrong... not sure what to make of it... 


[1] 
http://brouter.de/brouter-web/#zoom=12=51.3012=4.3286=OpenStreetMap=4.277115,51.346912|4.412899,51.254556==river=0=geojson
 
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rivers 



-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Michaël Dierick [mailto:mich...@dierick.io] 
Verzonden: vrijdag 10 februari 2017 18:20
Aan: talk-be@openstreetmap.org
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)

Hi,

While looking around on the map at the port of Antwerp I noticed some docks are 
tagged as a waterway=dock as well as canals (waterway=canal) which results in a 
somewhat messy rendering ... any ideas on this? (do docks need to be tagged as 
canal as well)? 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.2551/4.3808)

Further when looking at the wiki the definitions of dock=tidal and 
dock=floating seem somewhat mixed up (see wikipedia @
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_dock_(impounded) and 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_(maritime)#British_English ) ... 
could someone confirm this?

Thanks,

Michaël

PS: In maritime environments OSM is used quite a lot (indirectly) through 
www.marinetraffic.com

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[OSM-talk-be] Docks (Antwerp port)

2017-02-10 Thread Michaël Dierick 

Hi,

While looking around on the map at the port of Antwerp I noticed some 
docks are tagged as a waterway=dock as well as canals (waterway=canal) 
which results in a somewhat messy rendering ... any ideas on this? (do 
docks need to be tagged as canal as well)? 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.2551/4.3808)


Further when looking at the wiki the definitions of dock=tidal and 
dock=floating seem somewhat mixed up (see wikipedia @ 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_dock_(impounded) and 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_(maritime)#British_English ) ... 
could someone confirm this?


Thanks,

Michaël

PS: In maritime environments OSM is used quite a lot (indirectly) 
through www.marinetraffic.com


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