Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24

2017-03-17 Por tôpico gor...@openmailbox.org 

Por aqui, fica melhor registrado.


Também seria importante redirecionar as eventuais objeções para a lista 
email. E, eu acho que o autor deveria fundamentá-las em português, para 
a comunidade local avaliar e decidir se procedem.



Em 17-03-2017 19:17, Sérgio V. escreveu:


Obrigado Tomio. De fato o Telegram não fica amplamente acessível.

Colocando por aqui como canal oficial do OSM é mais certo mesmo.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs




*De:* Helio Cesar Tomio <hcto...@gmail.com>
*Enviado:* sexta-feira, 17 de março de 2017 17:30
*Para:* OpenStreetMap no Brasil
*Assunto:* Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24
Texto muito bom Sérgio.
Toda a história a limpo, desmentindo aquela alegação que não houve 
discussão anteriormente.


Em 17/03/2017 13:50, "Luis Bahiana" <luis.bahi...@gmail.com 
<mailto:luis.bahi...@gmail.com>> escreveu:


Se precisarem de ajuda para tradução ou versão coloco-me a disposição

2017-03-14 13:23 GMT-03:00 <talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org>>:

Enviar submissões para a lista de discussão Talk-br para
talk-br@openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>

Para se cadastrar ou descadastrar via WWW, visite o endereço
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br>
ou, via email, envie uma mensagem com a palavra 'help' no
assunto ou
corpo da mensagem para
talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org>

Você poderá entrar em contato com a pessoa que gerencia a
lista pelo
endereço
talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org>

Quando responder, por favor edite sua linha Assunto assim ela será
mais específica que "Re: Contents of Talk-br digest..."


Tópicos de Hoje:

   1. Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
  (man_made=survey_points) (Sérgio V.)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:22:41 +
From: Sérgio V. <svo...@hotmail.com <mailto:svo...@hotmail.com>>
To: "talk-br@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>" <talk-br@openstreetmap.org
<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: [Talk-br] Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
(man_made=survey_points)
Message-ID:
   
<ro1p152mb0810a9f1942bd6c60818e9fd90...@ro1p152mb0810.lamp152.prod.outlook.com


<mailto:ro1p152mb0810a9f1942bd6c60818e9fd90...@ro1p152mb0810.lamp152.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Bom dia pessoal, estou preparando a proposta abaixo para o
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/
<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/>.

Por favor sintam-se livres para examinar.

Antecipadamente obrigado.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hello.
I'm member of brazilian OSM users community.
I present here for discussion, and asking approval for, the
proposal for the import of brazilian geodetic network of
survey points (SGB - Sistema Geodésico Brasileiro).
Firstly, sorry if not good english. Also sorry for the
technical problems that arose due to the size of elements in
previously ill imported relation.

This proposal was previously formally informed in brazilian
talk list in
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March/012063.html

<https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March/012063.html>
.
(Also this post here will be copied to brazilian talk list.)

The discussions in Brazilian community: actually started in
6th march in Telegram channel of the brazilian community,
where it has been carried on, and where we generally use to
talk most (159 members, around some 80 users connecting daily
and some 20 activelly communicating). Many members made
remarks and suggestions about it and, after all arrangements,
general aprovals for procedures and utility purpose.

The purpose of this proposal: is to import the survey points
published by the brazilian government agency for geographical
data (called IBGE -
(http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/geociencias/geodesia/default_sgb_int.shtm

<http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/geociencias/geodesia/default_sgb_int.shtm>).

The

Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24

2017-03-17 Por tôpico Sérgio V . 
Obrigado Tomio. De fato o Telegram não fica amplamente acessível.

Colocando por aqui como canal oficial do OSM é mais certo mesmo.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs



De: Helio Cesar Tomio <hcto...@gmail.com>
Enviado: sexta-feira, 17 de março de 2017 17:30
Para: OpenStreetMap no Brasil
Assunto: Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24

Texto muito bom Sérgio.
Toda a história a limpo, desmentindo aquela alegação que não houve discussão 
anteriormente.

Em 17/03/2017 13:50, "Luis Bahiana" 
<luis.bahi...@gmail.com<mailto:luis.bahi...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
Se precisarem de ajuda para tradução ou versão coloco-me a disposição

2017-03-14 13:23 GMT-03:00 
<talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org>>:
Enviar submissões para a lista de discussão Talk-br para
talk-br@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>

Para se cadastrar ou descadastrar via WWW, visite o endereço
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
ou, via email, envie uma mensagem com a palavra 'help' no assunto ou
corpo da mensagem para

talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org>

Você poderá entrar em contato com a pessoa que gerencia a lista pelo
endereço
talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org>

Quando responder, por favor edite sua linha Assunto assim ela será
mais específica que "Re: Contents of Talk-br digest..."


Tópicos de Hoje:

   1. Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
  (man_made=survey_points) (Sérgio V.)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:22:41 +
From: Sérgio V. <svo...@hotmail.com<mailto:svo...@hotmail.com>>
To: "talk-br@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>" 
<talk-br@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: [Talk-br] Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
(man_made=survey_points)
Message-ID:

<ro1p152mb0810a9f1942bd6c60818e9fd90...@ro1p152mb0810.lamp152.prod.outlook.com<mailto:ro1p152mb0810a9f1942bd6c60818e9fd90...@ro1p152mb0810.lamp152.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Bom dia pessoal, estou preparando a proposta abaixo para o 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/.

Por favor sintam-se livres para examinar.

Antecipadamente obrigado.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hello.
I'm member of brazilian OSM users community.
I present here for discussion, and asking approval for, the proposal for the 
import of brazilian geodetic network of survey points (SGB - Sistema Geodésico 
Brasileiro).
Firstly, sorry if not good english. Also sorry for the technical problems that 
arose due to the size of elements in previously ill imported relation.

This proposal was previously formally informed in brazilian talk list in 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March/012063.html .
(Also this post here will be copied to brazilian talk list.)

The discussions in Brazilian community: actually started in 6th march in 
Telegram channel of the brazilian community, where it has been carried on, and 
where we generally use to talk most (159 members, around some 80 users 
connecting daily and some 20 activelly communicating). Many members made 
remarks and suggestions about it and, after all arrangements, general aprovals 
for procedures and utility purpose.

The purpose of this proposal: is to import the survey points published by the 
brazilian government agency for geographical data (called IBGE - 
(http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/geociencias/geodesia/default_sgb_int.shtm).

The source data: is all produced and published by IBGE.
The government also publishes these data through the more general portal for 
brazilian spatial data (INDE: 
http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br<http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br/> - 
Menu: Redes Geodesicas), from where it was dowloaded.

About the licenses for the data: as said in previous exchange of messages of 
other brazilian OSM member with IBGE officials [1], and as stated by the 
brazilian national law for access to information (known as "LAI"), all the 
government data, including IBGE, is free for access, not even requiring to say 
what for it is intended [2] (the exceptions quoted in the law must not even be 
published by the government). IBGE officials explicitly stated, as in previous 
quoted messages, it's free for OSM purposes, for copy, sharing and changes, 
since quoting the source, and not requiring further back communication.

The aim of the import: is to have all these points with their precise 
coordinates provided by the government, placed in OSM brazilian map to help on 
aligning imagery, fixing borders, found places i

Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24

2017-03-17 Por tôpico Helio Cesar Tomio 
Texto muito bom Sérgio.
Toda a história a limpo, desmentindo aquela alegação que não houve
discussão anteriormente.

Em 17/03/2017 13:50, "Luis Bahiana"  escreveu:

> Se precisarem de ajuda para tradução ou versão coloco-me a disposição
>
> 2017-03-14 13:23 GMT-03:00 :
>
>> Enviar submissões para a lista de discussão Talk-br para
>> talk-br@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> Para se cadastrar ou descadastrar via WWW, visite o endereço
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
>> ou, via email, envie uma mensagem com a palavra 'help' no assunto ou
>> corpo da mensagem para
>> talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> Você poderá entrar em contato com a pessoa que gerencia a lista pelo
>> endereço
>> talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>>
>> Quando responder, por favor edite sua linha Assunto assim ela será
>> mais específica que "Re: Contents of Talk-br digest..."
>>
>>
>> Tópicos de Hoje:
>>
>>1. Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
>>   (man_made=survey_points) (Sérgio V.)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:22:41 +
>> From: Sérgio V. 
>> To: "talk-br@openstreetmap.org" 
>> Subject: [Talk-br] Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
>> (man_made=survey_points)
>> Message-ID:
>> > 2.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Bom dia pessoal, estou preparando a proposta abaixo para o
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/.
>>
>> Por favor sintam-se livres para examinar.
>>
>> Antecipadamente obrigado.
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>> Hello.
>> I'm member of brazilian OSM users community.
>> I present here for discussion, and asking approval for, the proposal for
>> the import of brazilian geodetic network of survey points (SGB - Sistema
>> Geodésico Brasileiro).
>> Firstly, sorry if not good english. Also sorry for the technical problems
>> that arose due to the size of elements in previously ill imported relation.
>>
>> This proposal was previously formally informed in brazilian talk list in
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March/012063.html
>> .
>> (Also this post here will be copied to brazilian talk list.)
>>
>> The discussions in Brazilian community: actually started in 6th march in
>> Telegram channel of the brazilian community, where it has been carried on,
>> and where we generally use to talk most (159 members, around some 80 users
>> connecting daily and some 20 activelly communicating). Many members made
>> remarks and suggestions about it and, after all arrangements, general
>> aprovals for procedures and utility purpose.
>>
>> The purpose of this proposal: is to import the survey points published by
>> the brazilian government agency for geographical data (called IBGE - (
>> http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/geociencias/geodesia/default_sgb_int.shtm).
>>
>> The source data: is all produced and published by IBGE.
>> The government also publishes these data through the more general portal
>> for brazilian spatial data (INDE: http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br<
>> http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br/> - Menu: Redes Geodesicas), from
>> where it was dowloaded.
>>
>> About the licenses for the data: as said in previous exchange of messages
>> of other brazilian OSM member with IBGE officials [1], and as stated by the
>> brazilian national law for access to information (known as "LAI"), all the
>> government data, including IBGE, is free for access, not even requiring to
>> say what for it is intended [2] (the exceptions quoted in the law must not
>> even be published by the government). IBGE officials explicitly stated, as
>> in previous quoted messages, it's free for OSM purposes, for copy, sharing
>> and changes, since quoting the source, and not requiring further back
>> communication.
>>
>> The aim of the import: is to have all these points with their precise
>> coordinates provided by the government, placed in OSM brazilian map to help
>> on aligning imagery, fixing borders, found places in remote regions, etc.
>>
>> It can be objected: found no survey point in imagery on the ground.
>> That's true. Many things pedestrians have mapped can't be seen on
>> sattelite imagery now, like door numbers, shop names, highway signals, and
>> many other small things, perhaps also fire_hidrants, etc. It usually
>> resides all on local mapper's word.
>> Also imagery resolution is improving constantly, so perhaps not too later
>> we all can see many more things on sattelite imagery.
>> Anyway, the government, through its data itself and its official reports
>> of survey points, states they are there on the ground.
>>
>> As a single example: there's a survey point (a small plate) over a
>> boundary_stone in the

Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24

2017-03-17 Por tôpico Sérgio V . 
Obrigado Luis, grande aporte seria.


Se ver qualquer coisa que precise melhorar na proposta em Inglês, fique à 
vontade pra corrigir. Pode mandar por aqui mesmo. Como preferir.


E se acharem que precisa fazer uma versão da wiki em inglês (:en)", também, à 
vontade.


Vi que você é do IBGE. Ótimo ter a presença, o interesse e conhecimento de 
vocês aqui também.

Pensei em focar na relevância das estações planialtimétricas (deixando de lado 
as estações gravimétricas e maregráficas, poucas).

Para as Referências de Nível, fiz a geração de Altitude Geométrica (h) a partir 
dos dados de Altitude Ortométrica (H),  e (N) conforme o MAPGEO2015_v1_0.exe .

Qualquer coisa que acharem que mereça melhorar ou corrigir na proposta em 
geral, por favor, sintam-se à vontade para mandar seus aportes.

Obrigado


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sérgio - http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/smaprs



De: Luis Bahiana <luis.bahi...@gmail.com>
Enviado: sexta-feira, 17 de março de 2017 13:49
Para: talk-br@openstreetmap.org
Assunto: Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24

Se precisarem de ajuda para tradução ou versão coloco-me a disposição

2017-03-14 13:23 GMT-03:00 
<talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org>>:
Enviar submissões para a lista de discussão Talk-br para
talk-br@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>

Para se cadastrar ou descadastrar via WWW, visite o endereço
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
ou, via email, envie uma mensagem com a palavra 'help' no assunto ou
corpo da mensagem para

talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org>

Você poderá entrar em contato com a pessoa que gerencia a lista pelo
endereço
talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org>

Quando responder, por favor edite sua linha Assunto assim ela será
mais específica que "Re: Contents of Talk-br digest..."


Tópicos de Hoje:

   1. Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
  (man_made=survey_points) (Sérgio V.)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:22:41 +
From: Sérgio V. <svo...@hotmail.com<mailto:svo...@hotmail.com>>
To: "talk-br@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>" 
<talk-br@openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-br@openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: [Talk-br] Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
(man_made=survey_points)
Message-ID:

<ro1p152mb0810a9f1942bd6c60818e9fd90...@ro1p152mb0810.lamp152.prod.outlook.com<mailto:ro1p152mb0810a9f1942bd6c60818e9fd90...@ro1p152mb0810.lamp152.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Bom dia pessoal, estou preparando a proposta abaixo para o 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/.

Por favor sintam-se livres para examinar.

Antecipadamente obrigado.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Hello.
I'm member of brazilian OSM users community.
I present here for discussion, and asking approval for, the proposal for the 
import of brazilian geodetic network of survey points (SGB - Sistema Geodésico 
Brasileiro).
Firstly, sorry if not good english. Also sorry for the technical problems that 
arose due to the size of elements in previously ill imported relation.

This proposal was previously formally informed in brazilian talk list in 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March/012063.html .
(Also this post here will be copied to brazilian talk list.)

The discussions in Brazilian community: actually started in 6th march in 
Telegram channel of the brazilian community, where it has been carried on, and 
where we generally use to talk most (159 members, around some 80 users 
connecting daily and some 20 activelly communicating). Many members made 
remarks and suggestions about it and, after all arrangements, general aprovals 
for procedures and utility purpose.

The purpose of this proposal: is to import the survey points published by the 
brazilian government agency for geographical data (called IBGE - 
(http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/geociencias/geodesia/default_sgb_int.shtm).

The source data: is all produced and published by IBGE.
The government also publishes these data through the more general portal for 
brazilian spatial data (INDE: 
http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br<http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br/> - 
Menu: Redes Geodesicas), from where it was dowloaded.

About the licenses for the data: as said in previous exchange of messages of 
other brazilian OSM member with IBGE officials [1], and as stated by the 
brazilian national law for access to information (known as "LAI"), all the 
government data, including IBGE, is free for access, not even requiring to say 
what for it is intended [2] (the exceptions quoted in the law mus

Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 102, assunto 24

2017-03-17 Por tôpico Luis Bahiana 
Se precisarem de ajuda para tradução ou versão coloco-me a disposição

2017-03-14 13:23 GMT-03:00 :

> Enviar submissões para a lista de discussão Talk-br para
> talk-br@openstreetmap.org
>
> Para se cadastrar ou descadastrar via WWW, visite o endereço
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
> ou, via email, envie uma mensagem com a palavra 'help' no assunto ou
> corpo da mensagem para
> talk-br-requ...@openstreetmap.org
>
> Você poderá entrar em contato com a pessoa que gerencia a lista pelo
> endereço
> talk-br-ow...@openstreetmap.org
>
> Quando responder, por favor edite sua linha Assunto assim ela será
> mais específica que "Re: Contents of Talk-br digest..."
>
>
> Tópicos de Hoje:
>
>1. Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
>   (man_made=survey_points) (Sérgio V.)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 16:22:41 +
> From: Sérgio V. 
> To: "talk-br@openstreetmap.org" 
> Subject: [Talk-br] Proposal of import: Brazilian Geodetic Network
> (man_made=survey_points)
> Message-ID:
>  LAMP152.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Bom dia pessoal, estou preparando a proposta abaixo para o
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/.
>
> Por favor sintam-se livres para examinar.
>
> Antecipadamente obrigado.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Hello.
> I'm member of brazilian OSM users community.
> I present here for discussion, and asking approval for, the proposal for
> the import of brazilian geodetic network of survey points (SGB - Sistema
> Geodésico Brasileiro).
> Firstly, sorry if not good english. Also sorry for the technical problems
> that arose due to the size of elements in previously ill imported relation.
>
> This proposal was previously formally informed in brazilian talk list in
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-br/2017-March/012063.html .
> (Also this post here will be copied to brazilian talk list.)
>
> The discussions in Brazilian community: actually started in 6th march in
> Telegram channel of the brazilian community, where it has been carried on,
> and where we generally use to talk most (159 members, around some 80 users
> connecting daily and some 20 activelly communicating). Many members made
> remarks and suggestions about it and, after all arrangements, general
> aprovals for procedures and utility purpose.
>
> The purpose of this proposal: is to import the survey points published by
> the brazilian government agency for geographical data (called IBGE - (
> http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/geociencias/geodesia/default_sgb_int.shtm).
>
> The source data: is all produced and published by IBGE.
> The government also publishes these data through the more general portal
> for brazilian spatial data (INDE: http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br<
> http://www.visualizador.inde.gov.br/> - Menu: Redes Geodesicas), from
> where it was dowloaded.
>
> About the licenses for the data: as said in previous exchange of messages
> of other brazilian OSM member with IBGE officials [1], and as stated by the
> brazilian national law for access to information (known as "LAI"), all the
> government data, including IBGE, is free for access, not even requiring to
> say what for it is intended [2] (the exceptions quoted in the law must not
> even be published by the government). IBGE officials explicitly stated, as
> in previous quoted messages, it's free for OSM purposes, for copy, sharing
> and changes, since quoting the source, and not requiring further back
> communication.
>
> The aim of the import: is to have all these points with their precise
> coordinates provided by the government, placed in OSM brazilian map to help
> on aligning imagery, fixing borders, found places in remote regions, etc.
>
> It can be objected: found no survey point in imagery on the ground.
> That's true. Many things pedestrians have mapped can't be seen on
> sattelite imagery now, like door numbers, shop names, highway signals, and
> many other small things, perhaps also fire_hidrants, etc. It usually
> resides all on local mapper's word.
> Also imagery resolution is improving constantly, so perhaps not too later
> we all can see many more things on sattelite imagery.
> Anyway, the government, through its data itself and its official reports
> of survey points, states they are there on the ground.
>
> As a single example: there's a survey point (a small plate) over a
> boundary_stone in the Brazil-Venezuela-Guyana triple border, reported in
> [3]. It seems not visible in imagery, nor the boundary_stone. At least I
> still haven't found it (but I'm looking for). But just seeing this
> officialy reported point in JOSM (5.2018977222,
> -60.737554)[4] indicates this