Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-02-06 Thread john whelan
My recommendation and it is only a recommendation is we wait until we hear
back from the working group.

We seem to have an issue with who has the authority to give permission both
on our own side and within various levels of government and what the
wording of the permission means.

The idea that only Canadians are only allowed to map in Canada and by
implication they are not permitted to map anywhere else in the world I find
frankly disturbing.

Stat Can was advised before the project started that if they used OSM
licensing issues were almost certain to be raised. Taginfo gives
177,183,823 instances of source being used which implies an import by 161,713
different users.  It was recognised that there would be differences of
opinion and that they should work with local mappers.  I think this was
understood to be those who lived and mapped in Ottawa initially rather than
trying to work with the entire country to start off with.

Mojgan did an import of address data that was discussed in talk-ca and
stated quite clearly that she had done an analysis of the OSM license and
the Federal Government license and found they were compatible and no one
challenged the statement.  This discussion took place in 2016.

Cheerio John



On 6 February 2017 at 00:10, Kyle Nuttall  wrote:

> It seems like with direct permission for the building footprint data the
> licencing issue becomes irrelevant.
>
> However, determining the compatibility of the license is still important
> so we can avoid having these types of discussions for all the other bits of
> data the city provides. But this one in question seems to have the go ahead
> from the City of Ottawa directly.
>
> It's also to my understanding that the spirit of OSM is to contribute data
> to the map, which seems to be precisely what this import is trying to
> accomplish.
>
> Cheers,
> Kyle
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-02-05 Thread Kyle Nuttall
It seems like with direct permission for the building footprint data the 
licencing issue becomes irrelevant.

However, determining the compatibility of the license is still important so we 
can avoid having these types of discussions for all the other bits of data the 
city provides. But this one in question seems to have the go ahead from the 
City of Ottawa directly.

It's also to my understanding that the spirit of OSM is to contribute data to 
the map, which seems to be precisely what this import is trying to accomplish.

Cheers,
Kyle
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-02-05 Thread Stewart C. Russell
>> Going to wait a few hours to accept replies and afterwards we're going
>> to begin the import tonight (EST).
> 
> Please don't do this - LWG is still working on it.

I see that, despite the lack of approval from LWG, two users have taken
the unilateral step of starting the import:

* https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/45843129
* https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/45720673

One of the import user names appears to me to be a direct slight to OSM
contributors from another country. This is not acceptable. This is quite
un-Canadian, and contrary to the spirit of OSM.

 Stewart

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-01-30 Thread john whelan
> The Telenav mapping team has been looking at some other datasets that
were published under versions of this ODL and had our legal counsel review
this with regard to ODbL compatibility. I am asking them for an update on
this, hoping this will help move things along.

Has anyone taken into account the fact that when you upload to OSM you also
give OSM permission to change the license on the data in the future.  We
probably should take it into account if only to prevent it becoming an
issue in the future.

I'm not a member of the imports list so am unable to post there.

Cheerio John

On 30 January 2017 at 05:09, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> The Telenav mapping team has been looking at some other datasets that were
> published under versions of this ODL and had our legal counsel review this
> with regard to ODbL compatibility. I am asking them for an update on this,
> hoping this will help move things along. (We are also in the process of
> making these actions more visible to the community.)
>
> Martijn van Exel
>
> On Jan 28, 2017, at 6:20 AM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
>
> Hi Denis,
>
> We've already imported data under the City of Ottawa license, all of the
> OC Transpo bus stop (minus a few in the downtown core).
>
>
> Yes, I meant to ask: where was the announcement/discussion of the OC
> Transpo import on this list? Where's the wiki process page? The imports
> seem to have been done by regular users, not import users, too.
>
> Going to wait a few hours to accept replies and afterwards we're going
> to begin the import tonight (EST).
>
>
> Please don't do this - LWG is still working on it.
>
> Stewart
>
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-01-30 Thread Martijn van Exel
Hi, 

The Telenav mapping team has been looking at some other datasets that were 
published under versions of this ODL and had our legal counsel review this with 
regard to ODbL compatibility. I am asking them for an update on this, hoping 
this will help move things along. (We are also in the process of making these 
actions more visible to the community.)

Martijn van Exel

> On Jan 28, 2017, at 6:20 AM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> 
> Hi Denis,
> 
>> We've already imported data under the City of Ottawa license, all of the
>> OC Transpo bus stop (minus a few in the downtown core).
> 
> Yes, I meant to ask: where was the announcement/discussion of the OC
> Transpo import on this list? Where's the wiki process page? The imports
> seem to have been done by regular users, not import users, too.
> 
>> Going to wait a few hours to accept replies and afterwards we're going
>> to begin the import tonight (EST).
> 
> Please don't do this - LWG is still working on it.
> 
> Stewart
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca

___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-01-27 Thread Stewart C. Russell
Hi Denis,

> We've already imported data under the City of Ottawa license, all of the
> OC Transpo bus stop (minus a few in the downtown core).

Yes, I meant to ask: where was the announcement/discussion of the OC
Transpo import on this list? Where's the wiki process page? The imports
seem to have been done by regular users, not import users, too.

> Going to wait a few hours to accept replies and afterwards we're going
> to begin the import tonight (EST).

Please don't do this - LWG is still working on it.

 Stewart


___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-01-27 Thread James
I've submitted a ticket to the city of Ottawa to fix their links and
requested feedback. The link on the import plan wiki was already up to
date, just not the one on the dataset directly. You can get the direct link
by visiting data.ottawa.ca and from the front page click Read the City of
Ottawa Open Data Licence Version 2.0


01/27/2017 - 14:07 Thank you for providing your feedback to us regarding
ottawa.ca.
Your reference number is 800.
We will provide you with an update on your feedback within 5 business days.
Regards, ServiceOttawa

This e-mail originates from the City of Ottawa e-mail system. Any
distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains
by other than the intended recipient(s) is unauthorized. Thank you.

Le présent courriel a été expédié par le système de courriels de la Ville
d'Ottawa. Toute distribution, utilisation ou reproduction du courriel ou
des renseignements qui s'y trouvent par une personne autre que son
destinataire prévu est interdite. Je vous remercie de votre collaboration.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 2:02 PM, James  wrote:

> http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data#
> open-data-licence-version-2-0
>
> Is the correct link, if it's on the wiki, I'll update it as the city has
> been updating/breaking there data.ottawa.ca
>
> On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Michael Reichert  wrote:
>
>> Hi James,
>>
>> Am 2017-01-24 um 21:05 schrieb James:
>> > The sources are now available on the city of Ottawa's website. As such
>> was
>> > the major hurdle last time to proceed with the import and it is now
>> taken
>> > care of (http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/urban-buildings) and the local
>> > community in agreement to proceed, we shall begin to do so in the coming
>> > days.
>>
>> Thank you for the link to the data. The link to the license on that page
>> (http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-lic
>> ence-version-20)
>> returns error 404. archive.org has an archieved version of that page
>> from October 2016 but it would be better if their open data portal
>> contained working links to the license texts.
>>
>> You are in touch with them, aren't you? Could you please ask them to fix
>> that broken link.
>>
>> Please note that this is not a show-stopper.
>>
>> > The documentation has been updated here:
>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Plan
>> > Please refer to it if you have any questions.
>>
>> The license (http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data)
>> linked from the wiki page contains the phrase "for any lawful purpose".
>> Is it compatible to OSM? I don't know if it is compatible, I haven't
>> looked if this issue has been solved or is still open. There was some
>> discussion about licenses with such phrases on Legal-talk mailing list
>> some months ago.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> --
>> Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
>> ausgenommen)
>> I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 外に遊びに行こう!
>



-- 
外に遊びに行こう!
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca


Re: [Talk-ca] [Imports] Ottawa Buildings & Addresses [Statistics Canada project]

2017-01-27 Thread Michael Reichert
Hi James,

Am 2017-01-24 um 21:05 schrieb James:
> The sources are now available on the city of Ottawa's website. As such was
> the major hurdle last time to proceed with the import and it is now taken
> care of (http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/urban-buildings) and the local
> community in agreement to proceed, we shall begin to do so in the coming
> days.

Thank you for the link to the data. The link to the license on that page
(http://ottawa.ca/en/mobile-apps-and-open-data/open-data-licence-version-20)
returns error 404. archive.org has an archieved version of that page
from October 2016 but it would be better if their open data portal
contained working links to the license texts.

You are in touch with them, aren't you? Could you please ask them to fix
that broken link.

Please note that this is not a show-stopper.

> The documentation has been updated here:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Plan
> Please refer to it if you have any questions.

The license (http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/get-know-your-city/open-data)
linked from the wiki page contains the phrase "for any lawful purpose".
Is it compatible to OSM? I don't know if it is compatible, I haven't
looked if this issue has been solved or is still open. There was some
discussion about licenses with such phrases on Legal-talk mailing list
some months ago.

Best regards

Michael


-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Talk-ca mailing list
Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca