Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa, Canada Tree Import

[Rory McCann]

Hi.

I think there's been a misunderstand, maybe I'm not being clear.

I did some quick analysis of the data & current OSM data. There are
about 622 trees which are inside a building. about 300 which are <1m
from the centre line of a road.

For example there are some trees-inside-buildings around here (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.39017/-75.75801 ) and (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/45.4187/-75.7007 ). My JOSM
validator didn't flag "tree inside building", so you can't rely on that
to figure it out.

There are "trees very close to road centreline" around here (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/45.28647/-75.70499 ) or (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/45.40001/-75.75015 )

For a dataset of 150k, these numbers are pretty good.

When doing an import, it's important that someone does this sort of
work. That's part of the process of doing an import, to learn more about
the accuracy of the data you have, and to check how it would look after
you import it. You shouldn't just presume everything will fit together
100%, someone needs to do this sort of analysis.

I suggest you filter out the small number of suspicious trees, and
either manually enter them, change the OSM data, and/or contact the City
of Ottawa to tell them about possible errors in their data.

BTW I noticed there are lots of address interpolation ways from a 2011
CanVec import, and then lots of buildings with address tags from a
building import this year. The old address lines weren't removed, so I
think there are thousands (hundreds of thousands) of duplicate addresses
in Ottawa? Have you noticed this? This is a danger of doing an import
without looking at the existing OSM data.

Doing some data analysis isn't a "mechanical edit", you're looking at
the data, not editing it.

Rory

On 28/06/17 17:13, James wrote:
Other than MANUALLY VERIFYING EACH AND EVERY TREE, there is no way to 
give a statistical analysis of the accuracy of the entire dataset. If we 
did it programatically we'd have to prove how the method of analysis is 
correct and would be probably be brushed off as being a "mechanical 
edit" thus invalid. If the need to verify each tree is not on a 
road/water/building this could be accomplished during the import(what I 
like to call a manual import: where the data is validated at the time of 
the importation of data as to the accuracy of the location and not just 
a massive dump of data in one pass)


On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Rory McCann 
> wrote:


On 28/06/17 16:53, Kyle Nuttall wrote:

I am still a little confused by what you mean. Obviously if
there's a
  tree in the middle of a building, that means something is not
right.
But what I was trying to say was that the trees in this dataset will
only appear where an actual tree is in real life. There shouldn't be
any cases of rogue trees in the middle of rivers or buildings
because
a tree just wouldn't be there in real life.


What if OSM data is wrong? What if OSM says "The river bank goes up to
here" and it doesn't, and that would make the tree in the river.
Sometimes people just upload data into OSM without checking for things
like this, and you get these weird data problems. You should try to
figure where (if at all) this happens, and see if the problem is OSM or
the official data.

You're also presuming the official data is 100% guaranteed to have the
correct location. If they are 99.9% accurate, then there are 150 wrong
locations. 99.99% accurate, 15 wrong locations.

If you do this sort of analysis you can find out just how accurate the
official data is, and also prevent making the map be full of these
mistakes.



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Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa, Canada Tree Import

[Frederik Ramm]

Denis,

On 27.06.2017 21:17, Denis Carriere wrote:
> +1 That's awesome work! > So many tree related OSM tags!

This is something that went through my mind a couple of times in the
past when you posted on the imports list, but I think now is the time
where I finally need to say it:

Are you on the imports list simply because you think OSM needs more
imports, and to give an unqualified +1 to every single import proposal,
good or bad?

Are you aware that the raison d'etre of the list is to *improve*
proposed imports by helping people to do things right and to avoid mistakes?

I mean, the import proposed here *clearly* has some (if minor) issues,
like the "dbh" tag, the questionable "ref", and the "operator=City of
Ottawa". Pointing out these issues will help improve the import, and
will help the importer not making a fool of himself.

It is a *good thing* to point out these issues and discuss them.

You can be in favour of an import and still offer some constructive
criticism, and indeed that would be expected from a seasoned OSM
contributor.

But instead, all you have to say is "So many tree related OSM tags!" and
"If all the data looks like this, then it looks like it would be a great
import".

I think that if you do not have the time to look at a proposal properly,
so that you don't even notice a problem like "dbh=6", then you should
*not* offer an unqualified "+1" to an import proposal. This is not a
vote; your +1 is worthless if we get the impression that you don't even
think twice before showering a proposal with that. It is not helpful; it
makes you look like a claqueur who mindlessly applauds every proposal.
It certainly doesn't do the person who proposes it any good: they hoped
to get a few pairs of critical eyeballs to ensure they don't embarrass
themselves with a broken or silly import.

If you do not have the time to offer solid feedback, then hold back on
it until you do. A knee-jerk "+1" makes a mockery of the process.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa, Canada Tree Import

[James]

+1
Trees are good for the environment and data looks up to par with the wiki

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 3:23 PM, John Marshall  wrote:

> +100
>
> On Jun 27, 2017 15:20, "Denis Carriere"  wrote:
>
>> +1 That's awesome work!
>>
>> So many tree related OSM tags!
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4937732175
>>
>> If all the data looks like this, then it looks like it would be a great
>> import.
>>
>> Best of luck!
>>
>> *~~*
>> *Denis Carriere*
>> *GIS Software & Systems Specialist*
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Kyle Nuttall 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A friendly hello to everyone,
>>>
>>>
>>> With the recent approval of the Ottawa ODL, I've had a keen eye on the
>>> City of Ottawa tree dataset after seeing a project showing all the
>>> fruit-bearing trees in the city.
>>>
>>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/tree-inventory-street-trees
>>>
>>> The dataset provided has all the common names for the species of tree
>>> (eg. Colorado Spruce). To make it a little more comprehensive, I've added
>>> the Latin names for the genus and species for most of the trees myself,
>>> along with the leaf type and cycle.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've added a few trees to the map as a preview of the data being
>>> imported. (The remainder will be added using and import account)
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.47443/-75.45005 (North of
>>> Innes, East of Trim)
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4937732175 (One specific node example)
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> More details are provided in the wiki.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Trees
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> Would love to hear some feedback and hopefully there are no issues to be
>>> found.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Kyle
>>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa, Canada Tree Import

[John Marshall]

+100

On Jun 27, 2017 15:20, "Denis Carriere"  wrote:

> +1 That's awesome work!
>
> So many tree related OSM tags!
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4937732175
>
> If all the data looks like this, then it looks like it would be a great
> import.
>
> Best of luck!
>
> *~~*
> *Denis Carriere*
> *GIS Software & Systems Specialist*
>
> On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Kyle Nuttall 
> wrote:
>
>> A friendly hello to everyone,
>>
>>
>> With the recent approval of the Ottawa ODL, I've had a keen eye on the
>> City of Ottawa tree dataset after seeing a project showing all the
>> fruit-bearing trees in the city.
>>
>> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/tree-inventory-street-trees
>>
>> The dataset provided has all the common names for the species of tree
>> (eg. Colorado Spruce). To make it a little more comprehensive, I've added
>> the Latin names for the genus and species for most of the trees myself,
>> along with the leaf type and cycle.
>>
>>
>> I've added a few trees to the map as a preview of the data being
>> imported. (The remainder will be added using and import account)
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.47443/-75.45005 (North of Innes,
>> East of Trim) 
>>
>> 
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4937732175 (One specific node example)
>> 
>>
>>
>> More details are provided in the wiki.
>>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Trees
>> 
>>
>>
>> Would love to hear some feedback and hopefully there are no issues to be
>> found.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Kyle
>>
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Re: [Talk-ca] Ottawa, Canada Tree Import

[Denis Carriere]

+1 That's awesome work!

So many tree related OSM tags!

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4937732175

If all the data looks like this, then it looks like it would be a great
import.

Best of luck!

*~~*
*Denis Carriere*
*GIS Software & Systems Specialist*

On Tue, Jun 27, 2017 at 3:07 PM, Kyle Nuttall 
wrote:

> A friendly hello to everyone,
>
>
> With the recent approval of the Ottawa ODL, I've had a keen eye on the
> City of Ottawa tree dataset after seeing a project showing all the
> fruit-bearing trees in the city.
>
> http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/tree-inventory-street-trees
>
> The dataset provided has all the common names for the species of tree (eg.
> Colorado Spruce). To make it a little more comprehensive, I've added the
> Latin names for the genus and species for most of the trees myself, along
> with the leaf type and cycle.
>
>
> I've added a few trees to the map as a preview of the data being imported.
> (The remainder will be added using and import account)
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.47443/-75.45005 (North of Innes,
> East of Trim) 
>
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4937732175 (One specific node example)
> 
>
>
> More details are provided in the wiki.
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Trees
> 
>
>
> Would love to hear some feedback and hopefully there are no issues to be
> found.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kyle
>
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[Talk-ca] Ottawa, Canada Tree Import

[Kyle Nuttall]

A friendly hello to everyone,


With the recent approval of the Ottawa ODL, I've had a keen eye on the City of 
Ottawa tree dataset after seeing a project showing all the fruit-bearing trees 
in the city.

http://data.ottawa.ca/dataset/tree-inventory-street-trees

The dataset provided has all the common names for the species of tree (eg. 
Colorado Spruce). To make it a little more comprehensive, I've added the Latin 
names for the genus and species for most of the trees myself, along with the 
leaf type and cycle.


I've added a few trees to the map as a preview of the data being imported. (The 
remainder will be added using and import account)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/45.47443/-75.45005 (North of Innes, East 
of Trim)

http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4937732175
 (One specific node example)



More details are provided in the wiki.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canada:Ontario:Ottawa/Import/Trees



Would love to hear some feedback and hopefully there are no issues to be found.


Cheers,

Kyle
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