Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

Thanks for this additional clarity, Stewart.

May I politely suggest you or another helpful volunteer update this "table 
wiki" to reflect that, perhaps with some text that says so?

If it makes sense to "blurb a note" into the Comments cell for a particular row 
(Grand Prairie, Muskoka, Edmonton), it seems that would stitch together the 
communication.  (Using the wiki, in the OSM way, so others can "at a glance" 
see status, progress...).

I find interesting regarding Edmonton, for example, that even with an 
incompatible licence (I don't know if north of the border it's with a c or an 
s) the Comments cell reads "80% done."  That "seems" like a contradiction, 
though, of course, it can't be.  It appears to mean "buildings are being 
entered around Edmonton regardless of the license incompatibilities."  In my 
experience in OSM, that sounds like a conversation, as we have here in talk-ca.

Yes, so, we're having it.  Part in talk-ca, part in the wiki, part in the map, 
part in email, part in the real world over coffee and talk.

More in the wiki, please?  Thanks, it feels like my work is done here!

SteveA
California

> On Jan 26, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Stewart C. Russell  wrote:
> On 2018-01-25 04:00 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
>> The other wiki (linked to in the "main" BC2020i wiki's "Inventory of
>> Current Building Data Sets" section): 
>> https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020/building_OD_tables
> 
> Note that the licence compatibility column as it stands is a bit
> misleading now that the table has been split from the main page. There
> are a lot of entries that say ODL 1.0 or OGL 2.0 for instance. These
> will be the local spin a data licence, and each one will need to be
> individually approved by the LWG before the import process can be
> started. Examples:
> 
> * Grand Prairie - http://www.cityofgp.com/index.aspx?page=2332
> 
> * Muskoka -
> http://map.muskoka.on.ca/exponare/Open_Data/Open%20Government%20Licence_District%20Municipality%20of%20Muskoka%20GIS_2014.pdf
> 
> We don't yet have one licence that rules them all. For instance, the
> Edmonton imports (such as
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28190793) look unapproved and
> incompatible.


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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

[Stewart C. Russell]

On 2018-01-25 04:00 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote:
> 
> The other wiki (linked to in the "main" BC2020i wiki's "Inventory of
> Current Building Data Sets" section): 
> https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020/building_OD_tables

Note that the licence compatibility column as it stands is a bit
misleading now that the table has been split from the main page. There
are a lot of entries that say ODL 1.0 or OGL 2.0 for instance. These
will be the local spin a data licence, and each one will need to be
individually approved by the LWG before the import process can be
started. Examples:

* Grand Prairie - http://www.cityofgp.com/index.aspx?page=2332

* Muskoka -
http://map.muskoka.on.ca/exponare/Open_Data/Open%20Government%20Licence_District%20Municipality%20of%20Muskoka%20GIS_2014.pdf

We don't yet have one licence that rules them all. For instance, the
Edmonton imports (such as
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28190793) look unapproved and
incompatible.

 Stewart

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Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

On Jan 25, 2018, at 12:16 PM, john whelan  wrote:
> About six years ago I wanted to import the local bus stops but the licences 
> weren't aligned.  It took about five years for the Canadian Federal 
> Government to first adopt an Open Government license that was open enough and 
> then for the City of Ottawa to adopt it.  It still needed to be looked over 
> by the legal working group before being accepted by OpenStreetMap.

Yes, Canadian "public" (municipal, provincial and federal government) open data 
(OD) licenses appear to have a long history of evolving to become 
ODbL-compatible.  Some very good work has been done here and it continues to 
evolve to a better state.  For the BC2020i, OSM has two wikis that "track" what 
is going on here:

https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020
is the project's "front door."  For a project with scope this huge (ten million 
buildings, nationwide in the geographically second-largest country on Earth...) 
communicating via wiki is very much "the OSM way" — and this BC2020i, simply 
put, IS an OSM project.  While this wiki's Governance section does say that (in 
these early days of the project) much intra-project communication happened via 
email amongst the early movers and shakers, it also says "we are working to 
improve this."  PLEASE, movers and shakers within BC2020i:  wiki, wiki, wiki!  
A great deal of Project Management (critical to better establish in these early 
days of BC2020i) and indeed intra-project communication (status, how far along, 
what's current and upcoming...) can be communicated, very WELL-communicated, 
via this wiki.  Go!

The other wiki (linked to in the "main" BC2020i wiki's "Inventory of Current 
Building Data Sets" section):
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/WikiProject_Canada/Building_Canada_2020/building_OD_tables
does a good (early) job of displaying in three tables open data on buildings at 
municipal, provincial and federal/other/thematic levels.  Again, this project 
is in early days, and license compatibility with ODbL is also in 
early-to-middle (with encouraging progress) phases.  As a veteran OSMer both 
familiar with and with having very hands-on experience at nationwide projects 
(bicycle routes, rail infrastructure and passenger routes...) I am encouraged 
to see this table growing, license compatibility improving, and the "main" 
BC2020i wiki solidifying.  However, as a passionate OSM contributor, I'd like 
to see the "walled gardens" of more-private email communications and GitHub 
documentation come down, with such communications migrating their way into our 
wiki structure:  doing so is an important acknowledgement that this is an OSM 
project (and it is).

> The city though provided a file of every building outline in Ottawa.  Then it 
> was just a matter of adding tags to the buildings for Stats Canada.  That was 
> the Stat Can pilot project.

And, in my opinion, it was a successful demonstration pilot project, a solid 
foundation for BC2020i to launch further progress.  Keep up the good work!

> The import did need to be carefully handled.

As EVERY import does!  (Especially an important pilot project one, and in the 
capital city, no less).  The BC2020i links to the Ottawa Import Plan, which 
appears to be (as it is) OK documentation as to how the data were "harmonized 
from OD sources into OSM."  However, WikiProject BC2020 (and that's what it is) 
needs to go much further, documenting a REAL Import Plan for the entire 
project.  Our Import Guidelines at https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines 
MUST be followed, with an eye towards making the (nationwide, extensible to 
local sub-projects) Import Plan flexible enough to be handled by the full gamut 
of scenarios which may contribute data:  from high school tech/open data 
"fests" to Mapping Parties and Meetup groups, to large-scale (university-based, 
technology-company based, stakeholder-based...) data import intentions at a 
more local level.

> If you can get your hands on an Open Data file containing the building 
> outlines with the correct licensing it does make the task a lot easier.  
> Teaches the students about the value of Open Data at the same time.

Yes, "having OD" is PART of it, certainly making easier achievement of the goal 
(vision) of BC2020i.  However, as WikiProject BC2020 is an OSM project, there 
is more to it than that:  OSM's tenets of good data entry (especially when 
imported from public sources) MUST absolutely resonate with future uploads.  
Our wiki as a "project blueprint" and a nationwide Import Plan, flexible enough 
to be locally-modifiable to be successful, MUST "rule" the HOWs of data 
importation.  This "nationwide/project-wide" Import Plan, flexible enough to 
handle multiple scenarios and flavors of building data is ripe (overdue?) for 
completion.  It is an ambitious project, and I wish you the best of luck and 
success!

SteveA
California

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

[john whelan]

About six years ago I wanted to import the local bus stops but the licences
weren't aligned.  It took about five years for the Canadian Federal
Government to first adopt an Open Government license that was open enough
and then for the City of Ottawa to adopt it.  It still needed to be looked
over by the legal working group before being accepted by OpenStreetMap.

The city though provided a file of every building outline in Ottawa.  Then
it was just a matter of adding tags to the buildings for Stats Canada.
That was the Stat Can pilot project.

The import did need to be carefully handled.

If you can get your hands on an Open Data file containing the building
outlines with the correct licensing it does make the task a lot easier.
Teaches the students about the value of Open Data at the same time.

Cheerio John

On 24 January 2018 at 14:01, Jonathan Brown  wrote:

> Thank you for this useful information, John. The Washington DC Georgia Ave
> Youth Ambassador Mapping Project involving 7 university students and 20
> high school ambassadors from underrepresented groups
> http://teachosm.org/en/cases/georgia-ave/ is a good example of how OSM
> could support youth in gaining 21st Century competencies.
>
> They started with a good base map, used a form developed by NGOs to
> collect data, spoke to business owners about entrepreneurship and business
> skills, refined an “elevator pitch” to meet 21st century competencies in
> the curricula, and collected info on building facades and structures that
> business could use to apply for Great Streets revitalization grants.
>
> As part of their summer job as Youth Ambassadors, students mapped around
> 268 places. Some of the lessons learned that they posted on their wiki page
> included:
>
>- Being able to work with an the OSM MappingDC user group who already
>had a volunteer base, survey forms, and a good idea for a project was
>helpful. [Note: This is where cloning or forking an open data in education:
>what problem do you want to solve would be useful for communities that do
>not have access to these civic tech minded user groups. I have to drive
>over an hour to access these kinds of user groups from the rural community
>I live in here in Ontario]
>- the use of Field Papers from the start https://wiki.openstreetmap.
>org/wiki/Field_Papers to organize data collection
>- more training on iD (e.g., how to add to an existing place, here's
>how to search for the correct tag in iD and the Wiki)
>- some formal training on mouse and keyboard skills for some students
>was necessary
>- community-based organizations may not have the right computers for
>the students to use. Chromebooks seemed to always crash with every “save”
>in OSM iD Editor.
>- Used 6 computers and divided students into small groups based on
>area they were assigned to map and gave everyone a chance to "drive" for a
>while so that each student got familiar with the system
>- HOT Task manager and volunteers mapped all the buildings ahead of
>time so that the students could focus on the businesses
>-  Figuring out what is the best means of communication and having a
>regular check-in
>- a small outreach campaign to tell businesses that the students were
>coming, but some didn't want to talk to them. Perhaps some kind of official
>sticker/shirt/hat for the students to wear, to make it more clear that they
>are part of a program
>- field trip to Mapbox , a
>web mapping company, to show them how OpenStreetMap and geography is used
>for work and potential career pathways was well received by students.
>Include some swag for students.
>- the 20 youth ambassadors were supported by partners included an NGO
>mentoring organization http://www.momiestlc.org/, professor from
>https://geography.columbian.gwu.edu/
> and the MappingDC usergroup
>that set up TeachOSM http://teachosm.org/en/cases/ with great use
>cases in education. Note: Professors Nuala Cowan & Richard Hinton
>suggested that the “instructional module/assignment is applicable to
>many disciplines and teaching scenarios, and the objective of the TeachOSM
>resource is to open that possibility to these other fields, in a
>comprehensive user friendly way.” The Kathmandu Living Lab
> national housing reconstruction
>project is a great example of citizen science and civic engagement using 21
>st century mobile apps as is the Mapping the Forests of Nepal
>http://www.kathmandulivinglabs.org/events/geography-awareness-
>week-2c-pokhara-mapathon
>
> 
>
>
>
> Technical Questions:
>
>- How could Overpass Turbo be used to collect data from multiple
>mapathon 

Re: [Talk-ca] Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

[Jonathan Brown]

Thank you for this useful information, John. The Washington DC Georgia Ave 
Youth Ambassador Mapping Project involving 7 university students and 20 high 
school ambassadors from underrepresented groups  
http://teachosm.org/en/cases/georgia-ave/ is a good example of how OSM could 
support youth in gaining 21st Century competencies. 
They started with a good base map, used a form developed by NGOs to collect 
data, spoke to business owners about entrepreneurship and business skills, 
refined an “elevator pitch” to meet 21st century competencies in the curricula, 
and collected info on building facades and structures that business could use 
to apply for Great Streets revitalization grants. 
As part of their summer job as Youth Ambassadors, students mapped around 268 
places. Some of the lessons learned that they posted on their wiki page 
included: 
• Being able to work with an the OSM MappingDC user group who already had a 
volunteer base, survey forms, and a good idea for a project was helpful. [Note: 
This is where cloning or forking an open data in education: what problem do you 
want to solve would be useful for communities that do not have access to these 
civic tech minded user groups. I have to drive over an hour to access these 
kinds of user groups from the rural community I live in here in Ontario]
• the use of Field Papers from the start 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Field_Papers to organize data collection
• more training on iD (e.g., how to add to an existing place, here's how to 
search for the correct tag in iD and the Wiki)
• some formal training on mouse and keyboard skills for some students was 
necessary
• community-based organizations may not have the right computers for the 
students to use. Chromebooks seemed to always crash with every “save” in OSM iD 
Editor. 
• Used 6 computers and divided students into small groups based on area they 
were assigned to map and gave everyone a chance to "drive" for a while so that 
each student got familiar with the system
• HOT Task manager and volunteers mapped all the buildings ahead of time so 
that the students could focus on the businesses 
•  Figuring out what is the best means of communication and having a regular 
check-in
• a small outreach campaign to tell businesses that the students were coming, 
but some didn't want to talk to them. Perhaps some kind of official 
sticker/shirt/hat for the students to wear, to make it more clear that they are 
part of a program
• field trip to Mapbox, a web mapping company, to show them how OpenStreetMap 
and geography is used for work and potential career pathways was well received 
by students. Include some swag for students.
• the 20 youth ambassadors were supported by partners included an NGO mentoring 
organization http://www.momiestlc.org/, professor from 
https://geography.columbian.gwu.edu/ and the MappingDC usergroup that set up 
TeachOSM http://teachosm.org/en/cases/ with great use cases in education. Note: 
Professors Nuala Cowan & Richard Hinton suggested that the “instructional 
module/assignment is applicable to many disciplines and teaching scenarios, and 
the objective of the TeachOSM resource is to open that possibility to these 
other fields, in a comprehensive user friendly way.” The Kathmandu Living Lab 
national housing reconstruction project is a great example of citizen science 
and civic engagement using 21st century mobile apps as is the Mapping the 
Forests of Nepal 
http://www.kathmandulivinglabs.org/events/geography-awareness-week-2c-pokhara-mapathon

Technical Questions:
• How could Overpass Turbo be used to collect data from multiple mapathon 
events and communities from OSM? 
• What’s the difference between the mobile app Alessandro commissioned for 
Building Canada 2020i and PushPin OSM? 
• I wonder if there is a way to create a better quality poster map than the one 
the students posted:  Ideally, these maps could be embedded in municipal and 
regional open data portal GIS maps.
Jonathan

From: talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:25 AM
To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 10

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: BC2020i and Mapathons with High Schools (john whelan)
   2. Re: Talk-ca Digest, Vol 119, Issue 9 (Jonathan Brown)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 07:41:04 -0500
From: john whelan 
To: keith hartley