Re: [Talk-GB] UK-specific tagging for rural feature names?
Whether you use landuse=moor or natural=moor to describe the area, you should use name=Ilkley Moor'for the actual name. There are variations of name you can use for the local or historic names http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name Also in the areas around Yorkshire cities, areas can often be semi-built up but still keep the name such and such moor. That's no different to having a small industrial area in a large residential town, just tag the greater area as the moor and landuse=residential or building=yes for the built-up bits. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [Spam] Counties and coasts
On 22 Jun 2009, at 14:45, Chris Hill wrote: I'm interested the relations of the boundaries for counties. I notice that some counties (and recently English Regions) include the way for the coastline (natural=coastline), and some coastal counties do not. I think that coastal counties would benefit from a way to close the boundary, but does it make sense to use the coastline? The coastline way probably indicates cliffs or a sea wall, yet there is often some beach or tidal flats beyond this on the seaward side. I understand that councils are responsible for the beach so the county could be said to extend beyond what we currently mark as the coastline. Does anyone know where council boundaries actually end with respect to the sea and coastline? Not sure about the answer, or what happens at estuaries. I do however notice that Map Mechanics offer a dataset where the:- The data has been reconciled with other Meridian layers to ensure a best fit so the districts match the coastline. Annual licence includes updates. http://www.mapmechanics.com/digital-mapping-data/uk-admin-census-political-data.html I certainly think the boundaries should be continuous and would suggest that we learn more about the official position around high/low water and estuaries. Using the coastline as a default seems reasonable. Regards, Peter Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts
On 22 Jun 2009, at 14:45, Chris Hill wrote: I understand that councils are responsible for the beach so the county could be said to extend beyond what we currently mark as the coastline. Does anyone know where council boundaries actually end with respect to the sea and coastline? Entirely wild speculation, but logically I'd assume they ought to extend to the 12 mile boundary beyond the coastline which the UK claims as territorial waters... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-mile_limit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand - Matt ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts
The Essex one I traced from the dotted line on NPE. I'm not sure about 12 miles for county boundaries - I don't think Essex would want to have to maintain it's own navy to repel Suffolk encroachers for example. Having said that, I think I read somewhere that UK beaches below the high water mark are Crown property, so perhaps the county councils just look after them for the Queen? Ed ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts
On 22 Jun 2009, at 15:14, Matthew Westcott wrote: On 22 Jun 2009, at 14:45, Chris Hill wrote: I understand that councils are responsible for the beach so the county could be said to extend beyond what we currently mark as the coastline. Does anyone know where council boundaries actually end with respect to the sea and coastline? Entirely wild speculation, but logically I'd assume they ought to extend to the 12 mile boundary beyond the coastline which the UK claims as territorial waters... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-mile_limit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Sealand Here is a view from the Essex county boundary (pink) from the OS (Meridian) overlaid on Navteq coastline. The white area seems to be sandbanks and the edge of the pink seems to relate more closely to the coastline as on OSM. The administrative boundary for Essex on OSM relates reasonably closely to the Naveq coastline however it actually relates to sand-banks in the 1940's from NPE. http://www.flickr.com/photos/peterito/3650048655/ Bing (Microsoft) also use the Naveq data and their coastline corresponds with the Navteq coastline data we show above however when one clicking on the aerial photography the coast moves in a lot to where Meridian says the coast is. Notice the nonsense on Bing around the Mersea Island where Bing shows a land bridge from the Island to the mainland which doesn't exist on aerial photography. http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx? cp=51.7648917581035~0.9051542318286936lvl=12 Google (using TeleAtlas) show the coast more closely related to the aerial photography and the OSM coastline. http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8ll=51.771877,0.943794spn=0.088378,0.291824z=12 The Sealand article makes no reference to Sealand being 'in Suffolk' or 'in Essex', but 'off the coast of Essex' and being now in 'territorial waters'. I thought the Queen owned the land between high and low water anyway. The Three Mile limit article makes no reference to who 'manages' this area of sea. No answers, just a review of what happens. Personally I would find the edge of dry land more useful than the edge of moving sandbanks and I would like the edge of Essex (and the coastline) to match up with where one starts to get wet! We then have a 'tUnited Kingdom territorial waters' boundary which is out to sea (which we do have) Regards, Peter - Matt ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts
2009/6/22 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: The Essex one I traced from the dotted line on NPE. I'm not sure about 12 miles for county boundaries - I don't think Essex would want to have to maintain it's own navy to repel Suffolk encroachers for example. Having said that, I think I read somewhere that UK beaches below the high water mark are Crown property, so perhaps the county councils just look after them for the Queen? Yes but what about the pier (which sticks into the sea) and is therefore below the high water mark, Full of shops and licensed premises. If Essex is worried about invasion from Sussex, We'll send a force in from Kent. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts
On 22 Jun 2009, at 15:59, Peter Childs wrote: 2009/6/22 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: The Essex one I traced from the dotted line on NPE. I'm not sure about 12 miles for county boundaries - I don't think Essex would want to have to maintain it's own navy to repel Suffolk encroachers for example. Having said that, I think I read somewhere that UK beaches below the high water mark are Crown property, so perhaps the county councils just look after them for the Queen? Yes but what about the pier (which sticks into the sea) and is therefore below the high water mark, Full of shops and licensed premises. Navteq doesn't acknowledge the pier at Clacton, nor does TeleAtlas (from Bing); the OS county boundary from Meridian also ignores the pier. OSM shows the pier as 'man_made=pier' going out from the shore and Mapink renders it like land. I would suggest that it correct. As for whether it is 'in Essex' or not I suggest that a judge would say it was even though the OS say it is not! If Essex is worried about invasion from Sussex, We'll send a force in from Kent. Or from Suffolk! Regards, Peter Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts
I'd assume that only the bottom part of the pier is below highwater mark, otherwise the aforesaid shops would get wet twice a day. PHILLIP BARNETT SERVER MANAGER 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD LONDON WC1X 8XZ UNITED KINGDOM T +44 (0)20 7430 4474 F E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK P Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email? -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Childs Sent: 22 June 2009 15:59 Cc: Talk GB Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts 2009/6/22 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: The Essex one I traced from the dotted line on NPE. I'm not sure about 12 miles for county boundaries - I don't think Essex would want to have to maintain it's own navy to repel Suffolk encroachers for example. Having said that, I think I read somewhere that UK beaches below the high water mark are Crown property, so perhaps the county councils just look after them for the Queen? Yes but what about the pier (which sticks into the sea) and is therefore below the high water mark, Full of shops and licensed premises. If Essex is worried about invasion from Sussex, We'll send a force in from Kent. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Please Note: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Independent Television News Limited unless specifically stated. This email and any files attached are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. If you have received this email in error, please notify postmas...@itn.co.uk Please note that to ensure regulatory compliance and for the protection of our clients and business, we may monitor and read messages sent to and from our systems. Thank You. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
