Re: [Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[Warin]

On 05/06/19 09:35, David Woolley wrote:

On 04/06/2019 16:09, Martin Wynne wrote:
The main reason for the fence would seem to be the several NO DOGS 
signs, which I have tagged.


I've always assumed that such fences and the "adults must be 
accompanied by a child sign", that often accompany them, is to keep 
out adults who are not related to the children, as a child protection 
measure.


humm ... the child is required to supervise the adult. I'd call that an 
adult protection measure.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Warin]

On 04/06/19 20:13, Jez Nicholson wrote:
I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping 
playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture 
excruciating detail (so shoot me!). 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432=N 



Any suggestions?


Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent 
driving onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?




I'd do them as a
barrier=bollards
material=wood
bollard=fixed
foot=yes
motorvehicle=no
And so on with as much detail as you want...





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Re: [Talk-GB] max_age=toddler? | Re: Playground age limits

[Warin]

Rather than enter text into a value where a number is expected .. why 
not use the description tag?

Description=For supervised younger children.
Description=For unsupervised older children.

??

On 05/06/19 03:51, SK53 wrote:
It might be germane to this discussion to consider minheight & 
maxheight as possible values. Certainly in ski resorts it is not 
uncommon to see minimum heights for certain chair lifts (typically 
1.25m) and I think I've seen similar on amusement park rides. Height 
is more likely to be a determining factor, even if not explicitly signed.


Jerry

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 18:34, Philip Barnes > wrote:


On Tue, 2019-06-04 at 16:49 +0100, Martin Wynne wrote:
> > What about `max_age=toddler`? (i.e. the oldest you can be is "a
> > toddler"), likewise `min_age=young_child` for the "older" one? (Is
> > that
> > the best term?) Yes it's not a numeric age, but it's better than
> > nothing?
>
> Thanks Rory.
>
> I wondered about that. If a tag expects a numeric value, is it
ok to
> enter text?
>
> Or should I invent a new tag, such as maybe age_range=toddler?
>
> Is "toddler" too UK-specific? Does everyone understand it to mean
> the
> same thing? Is "infant" younger or older than "toddler"?
>
> For the older children, I wondered about "school-age", although of
> course there are also infant schools for toddlers.
>
The playgrounds around here have a specific age on the signs, can't
remember off the top of my head what it is, but it is a lot older than
toddlers. If it stops raining I will go and have a look at the local
one. It will be something between 8 and 12.

The other area has no age limits and it would be wrong for us to
assume
one, each child is different and they will work out for themselves (or
with parental guidance) when they are ready. There will certainly be a
huge crossover.

Phil (trigpoint)




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Re: [Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[David Woolley]

On 04/06/2019 16:09, Martin Wynne wrote:
The main reason for the fence would seem to be the several NO DOGS 
signs, which I have tagged.


I've always assumed that such fences and the "adults must be accompanied 
by a child sign", that often accompany them, is to keep out adults who 
are not related to the children, as a child protection measure.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Road/Rail Bridge near Preston Park

[Adam Snape]

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019, 18:15 Jez Nicholson,  wrote:

> Known locally as "Pigeon Shit Bridge".
>

So who's going to add the loc_name tag ;)

>
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Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Saturday mapping event: 22 June in Wombourne

[Brian Prangle]

Hi everyone

This month's monthly meeting will be on Saturday 22 June in order to give
us  most of the day to map Wombourne
 in
South Staffs. Pub meetup for lunch at 1pm at the Waggon and Horses
 which
is a canalside Banks's pub and looks like it has  good menu. Lots of gaps
to map, sparse level of detail - which is why we picked it of course.

Regards

Brian

On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 9:59 PM Rob Nickerson 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We suggested a Saturday mapping event in June in Wombourne, Staffordshire.
> This will be on 22 June. Brian has kindly offered to pick a pub / cafe.
>
> P.S. I see this is the same date as the next Norwich meeting [1]. Given
> that this is quite a long trip for us (2hr 30min from Coventry, longer if
> starting from further away), I hope that this is not a conflict.
>
> [1]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2019-June/022994.html
>
> *Rob*
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Re: [Talk-GB] max_age=toddler? | Re: Playground age limits

[SK53]

It might be germane to this discussion to consider minheight & maxheight as
possible values. Certainly in ski resorts it is not uncommon to see minimum
heights for certain chair lifts (typically 1.25m) and I think I've seen
similar on amusement park rides. Height is more likely to be a determining
factor, even if not explicitly signed.

Jerry

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 18:34, Philip Barnes  wrote:

> On Tue, 2019-06-04 at 16:49 +0100, Martin Wynne wrote:
> > > What about `max_age=toddler`? (i.e. the oldest you can be is "a
> > > toddler"), likewise `min_age=young_child` for the "older" one? (Is
> > > that
> > > the best term?) Yes it's not a numeric age, but it's better than
> > > nothing?
> >
> > Thanks Rory.
> >
> > I wondered about that. If a tag expects a numeric value, is it ok to
> > enter text?
> >
> > Or should I invent a new tag, such as maybe age_range=toddler?
> >
> > Is "toddler" too UK-specific? Does everyone understand it to mean
> > the
> > same thing? Is "infant" younger or older than "toddler"?
> >
> > For the older children, I wondered about "school-age", although of
> > course there are also infant schools for toddlers.
> >
> The playgrounds around here have a specific age on the signs, can't
> remember off the top of my head what it is, but it is a lot older than
> toddlers. If it stops raining I will go and have a look at the local
> one. It will be something between 8 and 12.
>
> The other area has no age limits and it would be wrong for us to assume
> one, each child is different and they will work out for themselves (or
> with parental guidance) when they are ready. There will certainly be a
> huge crossover.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] max_age=toddler? | Re: Playground age limits

[Philip Barnes]

On Tue, 2019-06-04 at 16:49 +0100, Martin Wynne wrote:
> > What about `max_age=toddler`? (i.e. the oldest you can be is "a 
> > toddler"), likewise `min_age=young_child` for the "older" one? (Is
> > that 
> > the best term?) Yes it's not a numeric age, but it's better than
> > nothing?
> 
> Thanks Rory.
> 
> I wondered about that. If a tag expects a numeric value, is it ok to 
> enter text?
> 
> Or should I invent a new tag, such as maybe age_range=toddler?
> 
> Is "toddler" too UK-specific? Does everyone understand it to mean
> the 
> same thing? Is "infant" younger or older than "toddler"?
> 
> For the older children, I wondered about "school-age", although of 
> course there are also infant schools for toddlers.
> 
The playgrounds around here have a specific age on the signs, can't
remember off the top of my head what it is, but it is a lot older than
toddlers. If it stops raining I will go and have a look at the local
one. It will be something between 8 and 12.

The other area has no age limits and it would be wrong for us to assume
one, each child is different and they will work out for themselves (or
with parental guidance) when they are ready. There will certainly be a
huge crossover.

Phil (trigpoint)


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Re: [Talk-GB] Road/Rail Bridge near Preston Park

[Jez Nicholson]

As an aside, the bridge just further east
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/48132275 now has a cut-out 'ghost train'
that is lit up at night.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 6:14 PM Jez Nicholson 
wrote:

> Known locally as "Pigeon Shit Bridge". I'll let you guess why for
> yourselves. Needless to say, one doesn't hang around when walking under it.
>
> Although I can see the gap between the service road
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/633094942 and the first line
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/236002689 in general I would regard it
> as a single very wide bridge carrying 12 lines and the service road, with
> the gap being an anomaly.
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 4:31 PM Philip Barnes  wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.83309/-0.14321
>> >
>> > shows New England Road and Old Shoreham Road  Brighton.
>> >
>> > The standard OSM render shows 12 rail lines bridged over the roads,
>> > could be read as there being 12 bridges.
>> >
>> > Looking at aerials in JOSM looks like those 12 rail lines cross over
>> > using one bridge or perhaps even the road in a tunnel.
>> >
>> > Mapillary detail not available, so in Google Street View there appears
>> > to be 3 bridges, an arched bridge at the east end with a light gap
>> > between it and the next bridge. This 2nd bridge is joined to the 3rd
>> > bridge with no light gap, the west most of the three bridges has
>> support
>> > pillars, the central bridge doesn't.
>> >
>> > Mapping this I think should be done as three bridges/areas using
>> > man_made=bridge with the railway as layer 1. But what are the other
>> > features to identify the arched and the bridge with support columns.
>> >
>> > Thoughts on these railway bridges which are very common?
>> >
>> I have mapped an example just on the north side of Shrewsbury Station.
>>
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Road/Rail Bridge near Preston Park

[Jez Nicholson]

Known locally as "Pigeon Shit Bridge". I'll let you guess why for
yourselves. Needless to say, one doesn't hang around when walking under it.

Although I can see the gap between the service road
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/633094942 and the first line
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/236002689 in general I would regard it as
a single very wide bridge carrying 12 lines and the service road, with the
gap being an anomaly.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 4:31 PM Philip Barnes  wrote:

> On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.83309/-0.14321
> >
> > shows New England Road and Old Shoreham Road  Brighton.
> >
> > The standard OSM render shows 12 rail lines bridged over the roads,
> > could be read as there being 12 bridges.
> >
> > Looking at aerials in JOSM looks like those 12 rail lines cross over
> > using one bridge or perhaps even the road in a tunnel.
> >
> > Mapillary detail not available, so in Google Street View there appears
> > to be 3 bridges, an arched bridge at the east end with a light gap
> > between it and the next bridge. This 2nd bridge is joined to the 3rd
> > bridge with no light gap, the west most of the three bridges has support
> > pillars, the central bridge doesn't.
> >
> > Mapping this I think should be done as three bridges/areas using
> > man_made=bridge with the railway as layer 1. But what are the other
> > features to identify the arched and the bridge with support columns.
> >
> > Thoughts on these railway bridges which are very common?
> >
> I have mapped an example just on the north side of Shrewsbury Station.
>
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
>
> --
> Sent from my Sailfish device
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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 11:15, Jez Nicholson  wrote:
> I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping playground. I 
> walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture excruciating detail 
> (so shoot me!). 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432=N
[snip]
> Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?

I think mapping parkrun routes is a good thing. They take place
regularly almost every Saturday morning and are certainly verifiable
on the ground during those times. Most routes are the same each week,
though some events have an alternative version for the winter, or to
avoid flooding or other events in the park.

Parkrun's own website has route maps drawn over Google Aerial Maps,
which (from experience) aren't always very good. The routes can be
inaccurate and it's not always easy to see paths on the ground in the
imagery. It's also not always easy to see the direction and
progression of multi-lap routes. It would be great if we could get
better coverage and then persuade parkrun to use a rendering based on
OSM. I think the difficult thing to do would be to off-set parts of
the route that are covered more than once (like you do on bus route
maps when more than one route follows the same road), so the entire
route can be traced. Does anyone know if there are any libraries or
leaflet extensions that do this already?

Robert.

PS: Full disclosure: I'm a run director at Thetford parkrun, and have
mapped a number of events I've run in OSM. e.g.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2812625 for
https://www.parkrun.org.uk/thetford/course/

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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Re: [Talk-GB] max_age=toddler? | Re: Playground age limits

[Martin Wynne]

What about `max_age=toddler`? (i.e. the oldest you can be is "a 
toddler"), likewise `min_age=young_child` for the "older" one? (Is that 
the best term?) Yes it's not a numeric age, but it's better than nothing?


Thanks Rory.

I wondered about that. If a tag expects a numeric value, is it ok to 
enter text?


Or should I invent a new tag, such as maybe age_range=toddler?

Is "toddler" too UK-specific? Does everyone understand it to mean the 
same thing? Is "infant" younger or older than "toddler"?


For the older children, I wondered about "school-age", although of 
course there are also infant schools for toddlers.


cheers,

Martin.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[Martin Wynne]

Mapping individual equipment is a possibility, whilst as a 58 year old I am 
unlikely to use the swings but I do use the exercise equipment and climbing 
wall.


Hi Phil,

Here the exercise equipment is in a separate area away from the 
playground. According to the wiki it should be tagged 
leisure=fitness_station, which I've done, although the signs call it a 
"Green Gym".


As a 71-year-old my idea of exercise is to walk briskly by. :)

Martin.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Road/Rail Bridge near Preston Park

[Philip Barnes]

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
> Hi
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.83309/-0.14321
> 
> shows New England Road and Old Shoreham Road  Brighton.
> 
> The standard OSM render shows 12 rail lines bridged over the roads, 
> could be read as there being 12 bridges.
> 
> Looking at aerials in JOSM looks like those 12 rail lines cross over 
> using one bridge or perhaps even the road in a tunnel.
> 
> Mapillary detail not available, so in Google Street View there appears 
> to be 3 bridges, an arched bridge at the east end with a light gap 
> between it and the next bridge. This 2nd bridge is joined to the 3rd 
> bridge with no light gap, the west most of the three bridges has support 
> pillars, the central bridge doesn't.
> 
> Mapping this I think should be done as three bridges/areas using 
> man_made=bridge with the railway as layer 1. But what are the other 
> features to identify the arched and the bridge with support columns.
> 
> Thoughts on these railway bridges which are very common?
> 
I have mapped an example just on the north side of Shrewsbury Station.


Phil (trigpoint)

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[Talk-GB] max_age=toddler? | Re: Playground age limits

[Rory McCann]

On 04/06/2019 16:21, Martin Wynne wrote:

In the local park there are two areas of play equipment for children.

One is fenced off and clearly intended for infants/toddlers accompanied 
by parents.


Next to it there is a larger unfenced area containing play equipment for 
unsupervised older children, large climbing structures, zip wires, etc.


leisure=playground allows min_age and max_age in years, but in this case 
there are no signs giving specific age restrictions.


How best to map the distinction between the two areas?

Martin.


What about `max_age=toddler`? (i.e. the oldest you can be is "a 
toddler"), likewise `min_age=young_child` for the "older" one? (Is that 
the best term?) Yes it's not a numeric age, but it's better than nothing?


You could try to micromap the individual pieces of equipment, which 
might allow data consumers to deduce what's what, but I doubt this is 
practical.


You can map if equipment can be used by kids with various degrees of 
disabilities (`wheelchair`, `sitting_disability`, `walking_disability` 
etc), which is just so nice. Please go out of your way to help them.


Obviously, put a `note` on the playgrounds explaining this.


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[Talk-GB] Road/Rail Bridge near Preston Park

[Tony Shield]

Hi

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.83309/-0.14321

shows New England Road and Old Shoreham Road  Brighton.

The standard OSM render shows 12 rail lines bridged over the roads, 
could be read as there being 12 bridges.


Looking at aerials in JOSM looks like those 12 rail lines cross over 
using one bridge or perhaps even the road in a tunnel.


Mapillary detail not available, so in Google Street View there appears 
to be 3 bridges, an arched bridge at the east end with a light gap 
between it and the next bridge. This 2nd bridge is joined to the 3rd 
bridge with no light gap, the west most of the three bridges has support 
pillars, the central bridge doesn't.


Mapping this I think should be done as three bridges/areas using 
man_made=bridge with the railway as layer 1. But what are the other 
features to identify the arched and the bridge with support columns.


Thoughts on these railway bridges which are very common?

Regards

TonyS999


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Re: [Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[Philip Barnes]

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Martin Wynne wrote:
> On 04/06/2019 15:31, Philip Barnes wrote:
> > I would map them as separate playgrounds, map the fence and gate then add 
> > age tags as appropriate to that area.
> > 
> > My towns main  rec has such a distinction, outside the fenced children's  
> > area anyone can use the equipment.
> 
> Hi Phil,
> 
> That's what I've done, but how do I add age tags if there are no signs?
> 
> I don't feel qualified to guess suitable ages in years. And max or min 
> suggests actual restrictions apply.
> 
> But it would surely be helpful to map users to know the type of play 
> equipment available? I'm tempted to try max_age=yes, min_age=no for the 
> fenced area, and min_age=yes for the remainder.
> 
> The main reason for the fence would seem to be the several NO DOGS 
> signs, which I have tagged.
> 
The local fenced ones do have a maximum age on the sign. Can't remember what 
that is but I would only use it if there is a number. The unfenced area has no 
sign so I would not add a minimum age.

Mapping individual equipment is a possibility, whilst as a 58 year old I am 
unlikely to use the swings but I do use the exercise equipment and climbing 
wall.

Phil (trigpoint(

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Re: [Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[Martin Wynne]

On 04/06/2019 15:31, Philip Barnes wrote:

I would map them as separate playgrounds, map the fence and gate then add age 
tags as appropriate to that area.

My towns main  rec has such a distinction, outside the fenced children's  area 
anyone can use the equipment.


Hi Phil,

That's what I've done, but how do I add age tags if there are no signs?

I don't feel qualified to guess suitable ages in years. And max or min 
suggests actual restrictions apply.


But it would surely be helpful to map users to know the type of play 
equipment available? I'm tempted to try max_age=yes, min_age=no for the 
fenced area, and min_age=yes for the remainder.


The main reason for the fence would seem to be the several NO DOGS 
signs, which I have tagged.


cheers,

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[Dan S]

IMHO if there are no actual restrictions, just implications, then
don't specify any min_age or max_age. Just map the fence as a fence.
If there are indeed restrictions, then do as Phil suggests...

Cheers
Dan

Op di 4 jun. 2019 om 15:22 schreef Martin Wynne :
>
> In the local park there are two areas of play equipment for children.
>
> One is fenced off and clearly intended for infants/toddlers accompanied
> by parents.
>
> Next to it there is a larger unfenced area containing play equipment for
> unsupervised older children, large climbing structures, zip wires, etc.
>
> leisure=playground allows min_age and max_age in years, but in this case
> there are no signs giving specific age restrictions.
>
> How best to map the distinction between the two areas?
>
> Martin.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[Philip Barnes]

I would map them as separate playgrounds, map the fence and gate then add age 
tags as appropriate to that area.

My towns main  rec has such a distinction, outside the fenced children's  area 
anyone can use the equipment.  

Phil (trigpoint) 

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Martin Wynne wrote:
> In the local park there are two areas of play equipment for children.
> 
> One is fenced off and clearly intended for infants/toddlers accompanied 
> by parents.
> 
> Next to it there is a larger unfenced area containing play equipment for 
> unsupervised older children, large climbing structures, zip wires, etc.
> 
> leisure=playground allows min_age and max_age in years, but in this case 
> there are no signs giving specific age restrictions.
> 
> How best to map the distinction between the two areas?
> 
> Martin.
> 
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[Talk-GB] Playground age limits

[Martin Wynne]

In the local park there are two areas of play equipment for children.

One is fenced off and clearly intended for infants/toddlers accompanied 
by parents.


Next to it there is a larger unfenced area containing play equipment for 
unsupervised older children, large climbing structures, zip wires, etc.


leisure=playground allows min_age and max_age in years, but in this case 
there are no signs giving specific age restrictions.


How best to map the distinction between the two areas?

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Martin Wynne]

Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving
onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?


Hi Jez,

You can tag a way as barrier=bollard for a row of posts.

cheers,

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

Some park runs regularly alter their course to avoid causing damage to 
the grass,

Bus routes are permanently marked with bus stops
Complexity isn't a reason to map an item of not

On 04/06/2019 14:02, Edward Catmur via Talk-GB wrote:

An Overpass query for relation["type"="route"]["operator"~"parkrun",i]
throws up 38 mapped Parkruns globally of which I'm (at least partially)
responsible for mapping four. I should probably add some more, either from
memory or via tourism (could be a good personal project...)

I think if a bus route with all its potential complexity can be mapped then
a Parkrun can be as well - it's only 5km so how complicated can it be!





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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Gareth L]

Especially as they currently draw the route on google maps! 
https://www.parkrun.org.uk/prestonpark/course/




From: Gareth L 
Sent: Tuesday, June 4, 2019 2:04:35 PM
To: Jez Nicholson; Philip Barnes
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

I agree with Phil. Would love to find parkrun render all their running routes. 
They already show locations on an OSM sourced map.
But as they choose the route, and they’re transient affairs with no indication 
outside of the event, I’d keep it in their own database. (much like buses)

Gareth

From: Jez Nicholson
Sent: 04 June 2019 13:41
To: Philip Barnes
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can verify 
it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in runners. I don't 
really want to proliferate Relations, but could be convinced if we got Parkrun 
itself to hook up with us to provide route maps. Not even sure it works anyway 
as the route involves 2 laps with slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not 
going to do it now.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes, 
mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk>> wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any 
around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Dave F via Talk-GB]

Hi

Polygons shouldn't be attached to highways=* which represent an 
infinitesimally thin centreline & provides no assumption of width. If 
you wanted to add a gate to the outline of the park it would also, 
inaccurately, act as a barrier on the road.


is there a pond in the rose garden? it looks lie paths & grass/planters 
on the aerial views.

The rose garden's extent appears as if it should follow the bounding hedge.

Path into the playground?

add a leisure*=recreation_ground around the Croquet and Tennis Club, 
Include address/website etc


* I appear to be in the minority on this, but I believe 
recreation_ground should have a leisure tag not landuse as it fits 
better with other 'leisures' such as park, pitch, playground etc.




Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving
onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?


Do the posts have a horizontal bar preventing bikes/wheelchairs? if not 
then they're just posts & not a fence.


DaveF



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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Gareth L]

I agree with Phil. Would love to find parkrun render all their running routes. 
They already show locations on an OSM sourced map.
But as they choose the route, and they’re transient affairs with no indication 
outside of the event, I’d keep it in their own database. (much like buses)

Gareth

From: Jez Nicholson
Sent: 04 June 2019 13:41
To: Philip Barnes
Cc: Talk-GB
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can verify 
it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in runners. I don't 
really want to proliferate Relations, but could be convinced if we got Parkrun 
itself to hook up with us to provide route maps. Not even sure it works anyway 
as the route involves 2 laps with slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not 
going to do it now.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes, 
mailto:p...@trigpoint.me.uk>> wrote:
On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any 
around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
--
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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Edward Catmur via Talk-GB]

An Overpass query for relation["type"="route"]["operator"~"parkrun",i]
throws up 38 mapped Parkruns globally of which I'm (at least partially)
responsible for mapping four. I should probably add some more, either from
memory or via tourism (could be a good personal project...)

I think if a bus route with all its potential complexity can be mapped then
a Parkrun can be as well - it's only 5km so how complicated can it be!

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 1:41 PM Jez Nicholson 
wrote:

> Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can
> verify it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in
> runners. I don't really want to proliferate Relations, but could be
> convinced if we got Parkrun itself to hook up with us to provide route
> maps. Not even sure it works anyway as the route involves 2 laps with
> slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not going to do it now.
>
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes,  wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
>> >
>> > Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
>> > notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to
>> the
>> > meanings in the relationship.
>> >
>> We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the
>> ground.
>>
>> These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.
>>
>> I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted
>> any around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every
>> Saturday.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>> --
>> Sent from my Sailfish device
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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Jez Nicholson]

Yeah, the Parkrun idea was spur-of-the-moment. I could argue that I can
verify it on the ground any Saturday morning as it'll be covered in
runners. I don't really want to proliferate Relations, but could be
convinced if we got Parkrun itself to hook up with us to provide route
maps. Not even sure it works anyway as the route involves 2 laps with
slight differences. Anyway, i digress. Not going to do it now.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 13:27 Philip Barnes,  wrote:

> On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
> >
> > Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> > notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> > meanings in the relationship.
> >
> We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.
>
> These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.
>
> I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted
> any around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every
> Saturday.
>
> Phil (trigpoint)
> --
> Sent from my Sailfish device
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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Philip Barnes]

On Tuesday, 4 June 2019, Tony Shield wrote:
> 
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we 
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the 
> meanings in the relationship.
> 
We only map walking, or cycling, routes which are verifiable on the ground.

These should only be mapped if there are permanent markers.

I am always  on the lookout for waymarks and I certainly haven't spotted any 
around The Quarry in Shrewsbury, where apparently one happens every Saturday.

Phil (trigpoint)
-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Jez Nicholson]

Thanks Tony,

Exactly the kind of response I was after.

The 2*clock towers comes from the original accidentally (I assume) being
moved and lost because it doesn't render. Another one was then created in
the original position. I just this day spotted the node.

I just measured a bench and it is 8ft wide...which I might call a 4-seater.

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 12:49 Tony Shield,  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Like the idea of focusing on a particular area such as Preston Park. I
> only know the area from photographs and maps - but i did visit Brighton
> many years ago.
>
> Tree-y areas - many people use natural=wood. Appears to render the same
> but database users may have different uses, so I tend to natural=wood or
> both cos it is an amenity in a public park.
>
> Seats on a bench, and are there dividers to stop people sleeping there -
> personally think if two or more can sit there and its a discrete object its
> a bench.
>
> Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we
> notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the
> meanings in the relationship.
>
> Clock Towers - there are two mapped in Preston Park - neither appears to
> be complete in that they are physical objects which do not render.
>
> Your ref : 20954883
> 
> is close to Preston Drove bus stop with amenity=clock & support=tower.
> Suggest man-made=tower could be more appropriate and would allow it to
> render. Local knowledge details are essential to complete it.
>
> Additionally there is close to The Ride.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6071095402
> amenity=clock
> date=no
> display=analog
> name=Preston Park Clock Tower
> visibility=area
> website=https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1380948
> wikidata=Q26661100
>
> which would render with man_made=tower
>
> Is this the type of response you were looking for, hope so,  I find it
> useful to think about it and see what other people think.
>
> Regards
> Tony Shield -  TonyS999
>
> On 04/06/2019 11:13, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>
> I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping playground.
> I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture excruciating
> detail (so shoot me!).
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432=N
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Those tree-y areas are amenity=wood which is probably wrong. Should it be
> a land_use?
>
> How many 'seats' to a 'normal' bench?
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/seats#values
>
> Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?
>
> How did the clock tower get moved down to next to the road!!
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20954883
>
> Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving
> onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?
>
> Regards,
>  Jez
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Tony Shield]

Hi

Like the idea of focusing on a particular area such as Preston Park. I 
only know the area from photographs and maps - but i did visit Brighton 
many years ago.


Tree-y areas - many people use natural=wood. Appears to render the same 
but database users may have different uses, so I tend to natural=wood or 
both cos it is an amenity in a public park.


Seats on a bench, and are there dividers to stop people sleeping there - 
personally think if two or more can sit there and its a discrete object 
its a bench.


Parkrun as a relation - why not, its similar to a country walk and we 
notate those. Would want to add parkrun description to UK wiki as to the 
meanings in the relationship.


Clock Towers - there are two mapped in Preston Park - neither appears to 
be complete in that they are physical objects which do not render.


Your ref : 20954883


is close to Preston Drove bus stop with amenity=clock & support=tower. 
Suggest man-made=tower could be more appropriate and would allow it to 
render. Local knowledge details are essential to complete it.


Additionally there is close to The Ride.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/6071095402
amenity=clock
date=no
display=analog
name=Preston Park Clock Tower
visibility=area
website=https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1380948
wikidata=Q26661100

which would render with man_made=tower

Is this the type of response you were looking for, hope so,  I find it 
useful to think about it and see what other people think.


Regards
Tony Shield -  TonyS999

On 04/06/2019 11:13, Jez Nicholson wrote:
I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping 
playground. I walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture 
excruciating detail (so shoot me!). 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432=N 



Any suggestions?

Those tree-y areas are amenity=wood which is probably wrong. Should it 
be a land_use?


How many 'seats' to a 'normal' bench? 
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/seats#values


Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?

How did the clock tower get moved down to next to the road!! 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20954883


Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent 
driving onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?


Regards,
             Jez

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[Talk-GB] Preston Park, Brighton

[Jez Nicholson]

I have to admit that Preston Park is my personal micromapping playground. I
walk the hound there nearly every day and I can capture excruciating detail
(so shoot me!).
https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1800140#map=18/50.83914/-0.14432=N

Any suggestions?

Those tree-y areas are amenity=wood which is probably wrong. Should it be a
land_use?

How many 'seats' to a 'normal' bench?
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/keys/seats#values

Could I add the Parkrun route as a relation?

How did the clock tower get moved down to next to the road!!
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/20954883

Some of the fields are edged with small wooden posts to prevent driving
onto the grass. Is this a 'fence'? if so, what is its type?

Regards,
 Jez
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[Talk-GB] OSMUK Quarterly Project ideas

[Jez Nicholson]

By the way, your ideas, no matter how raw, are welcome on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:UK_Quarterly_Project at any time.
It also might be a source of ideas for a University, an organisation, or
you as an individual.

Even if it wasn't your idea, it might be a chance to give a passing comment
on Talk-GB a possible future rather than it drifting off into the ether.

Regards,
 Jez
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