Re: [Talk-GB] electric fences

2020-11-23 Thread David Woolley

On 23/11/2020 22:13, Gruff Owen wrote:
For Public RIghts of Way, it is highly unlikely that this structure has 
been authorised by the Highways Authority.


Some West Country counties seem to accept electric fences across public 
footpaths, see the last item in 
.


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Re: [Talk-GB] electric fences

2020-11-23 Thread Gruff Owen
For Public RIghts of Way, it is highly unlikely that this structure has
been authorised by the Highways Authority.

Restrictions on PRoW should meet British Standards (
http://www.pittecroft.org.uk/5709.pdf) and be compliant with the Equality
Act (2010). AFAIK landowners wanting to erect new furniture along a Public
RIght of Way will need to apply for S 147 (Highways Act '80).

My first port of call for this would be to report as an obstruction to the
path to the local council.

Not been around here long enough to say how they should be tagged, but
thought it worth throwing this out there.

Gruff


On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 at 05:28, Martin Wynne  wrote:

> There are several instances locally where a footpath across a field is
> crossed by an electric fence.
>
> The farmer usually fits a length of rubber hosepipe over the wire so
> that walkers can safely step over the fence. Sometimes with the aid of a
> couple of concrete blocks.
>
> How to map? Technically it is probably a form of stile. But the problem
> is that the location isn't fixed. Electric fences are moved about
> according to which area of the field the livestock are currently
> grazing. In a large field the position could change significantly.
>
> But walkers with restricted mobility do need to know that there is one
> somewhere in the field. The position might be important if there is an
> alternative gate or other access which could be used.
>
> Martin.
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Footways bikes can go on

2020-11-23 Thread Adam Snape
On Sat, 21 Nov 2020, 15:39 Tony Shield,  wrote:

> 'yes'  is probably wrong as there is no obvious permission and in England
> and Wales Highways Act 1835 s72 'If any person shall wilfully ride upon any
> footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for the use
> or accommodation of foot passengers;' . . .a penalty. So in the absence of
> any evidence - no bicycles.
>

The key part of this gloriously archaic statute (which predates the
invention of the bicycle*) is "by the side of any road" ie. it concerns
paths which we would now refer to as  or sidewalks. There is no general law
against riding bicycles elsewhere including any other kind of footpaths.

Which is not to say it is not in cases irresponsible or antisocial. It is
also potentially a civil trespass against the landowner to ride a bike
where not permitted. But, on the other hand, as Tony notes, such usage can
be harmless and become customary. If such customary usage is maintained for
long enough it can even become a legal right which is how we have ended up
with rights of way.

Thus, at least in the legal sense the absence of explicitly allowed
(bicycle=yes/designated)  does not mean forbidden (bicycle=no). That might
be a good assumption for routers to make but personally I'd only add
bicycle=no where there was an explicit prohibition.

*original version here
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4/5-6/50/section/LXXII/enacted
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Re: [Talk-GB] electric fences

2020-11-23 Thread Dave F via Talk-GB
Some of the properly installed versions I've tagged as gates - The 
electricity passes through a bungy cable & is connected with a metal 
hook at one end which is encased in a rubber handle allowing the walker 
to unhook it & pass through.


I usually only map the ones where I know, or it looks like, they've been 
installed for a while. With seasonal fences (horse breeder) I don't bother.


DaveF

On 23/11/2020 05:25, Martin Wynne wrote:
There are several instances locally where a footpath across a field is 
crossed by an electric fence.


The farmer usually fits a length of rubber hosepipe over the wire so 
that walkers can safely step over the fence. Sometimes with the aid of 
a couple of concrete blocks.


How to map? Technically it is probably a form of stile. But the 
problem is that the location isn't fixed. Electric fences are moved 
about according to which area of the field the livestock are currently 
grazing. In a large field the position could change significantly.


But walkers with restricted mobility do need to know that there is one 
somewhere in the field. The position might be important if there is an 
alternative gate or other access which could be used.


Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] electric fences

2020-11-23 Thread Andy Townsend
To add a similar question about other common electric fence crossings - 
what do people normally do with "the bit of electric fence on a hook" 
(with an insulator that allows you to unhook it, let people through, and 
hook it up again) and "an electric fence with no crossing at all".


https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8152509363 is an example of the 
former and https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8152399307 the latter.  
Taginfo finds 167 "gate" values internationally 
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/gate#values (not all gate types) 
and 63 "gate:type" values 
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/gate%3Atype#values - but I've no 
idea what many of those actually mean.


For stiles, there's 1 use each of "insulated_hose" and 
"insulated_section" https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/stile#values 
, which sounds like what you're looking for here.


I don't think that there's a good example for the "electric fences move 
about" problem.  If they're moveable, they probably won't be there at 
all half the year either.


Best Regards,

Andy


On 23/11/2020 10:53, Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB wrote:
So it is a footpath where somewhere along it there is an electric 
fence, but location changes?


Maybe wheelchair=no + note tag with an explanation placed on path
would be a good solution?


Nov 23, 2020, 06:25 by mar...@templot.com:

There are several instances locally where a footpath across a
field is crossed by an electric fence.

The farmer usually fits a length of rubber hosepipe over the wire
so that walkers can safely step over the fence. Sometimes with the
aid of a couple of concrete blocks.

How to map? Technically it is probably a form of stile. But the
problem is that the location isn't fixed. Electric fences are
moved about according to which area of the field the livestock are
currently grazing. In a large field the position could change
significantly.

But walkers with restricted mobility do need to know that there is
one somewhere in the field. The position might be important if
there is an alternative gate or other access which could be used.

Martin.

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Re: [Talk-GB] electric fences

2020-11-23 Thread Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-GB
So it is a footpath where somewhere along it there is an electric fence, but 
location changes?

Maybe wheelchair=no + note tag with an explanation placed on path
would be a good solution?


Nov 23, 2020, 06:25 by mar...@templot.com:

> There are several instances locally where a footpath across a field is 
> crossed by an electric fence.
>
> The farmer usually fits a length of rubber hosepipe over the wire so that 
> walkers can safely step over the fence. Sometimes with the aid of a couple of 
> concrete blocks.
>
> How to map? Technically it is probably a form of stile. But the problem is 
> that the location isn't fixed. Electric fences are moved about according to 
> which area of the field the livestock are currently grazing. In a large field 
> the position could change significantly.
>
> But walkers with restricted mobility do need to know that there is one 
> somewhere in the field. The position might be important if there is an 
> alternative gate or other access which could be used.
>
> Martin.
>
> ___
> Talk-GB mailing list
> Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org
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>

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