Re: [Talk-GB] UK Project of the week - trace a village off of OSSV?, (Kai Krueger)
At risk of being a fly in the ointment, judging by the largely favourable responses to this idea, I for one would like to register myself as -1. Rant Please don't map an area if you are not familiar with it. I have done some armchair mapping, but only where I am familiar with the area, and feel I can add value to the data I am entering. If you are that desperate for a 'complete' map, go out and do more surveying, or just use OS or other commercially available products. I just feel that blatant, blind copying of OS data is prostituting what I thought Open Street Map was meant to be about./Rant OK, I've got my tin hat on: standing by for incoming... ;-) Phil. talk-gb-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 12:07:33 +0100 From: Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com Subject: [Talk-GB] UK Project of the week - trace a village off of OSSV? To: 'talk-gb' talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 4c0b8175.30...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hello everyone, I would like to suggest as a sort of Project of the week for the UK for people to pick a random town or village somewhere in the UK that so far has poor coverage and trace it's roads from OS OpenData StreetView. Despite the various claims over the years that the UK road will be road complete by the end of the year, the UK is still a far distance off of that target. I have heard the numbers that so far we have on the order of 50% of named roads (people who are working on OS - OSM comparisons please correct me if I am wrong). Which is by no means a small feat of achieving, but also not as high as one would like it to be. So let us try and accelerate this a bit by everyone picking a small random town or village somewhere in the UK and trace the roads from StreetView. It probably only takes about 10 - 20 minutes for a small village and even a small town isn't too bad to do (if the weather is bad and you can't go out). So with the help of OS data, we can get a big step closer to where we would like to be and use it as a basis to continue to improve beyond the quality of OS data or any other commercial map provider. (If you are convinced already, then no need to read the rest of the email) I know that many people are opposed to armchair mapping or imports (and btw I am not proposing a full scale import here, but manual tracing instead) and so I'd like to counter some of the arguments most likely going to be brought up against this sort of non local tracing: 1) OS data might have mistakes, be outdated and generally not as good as what OSM aims for: Yes, no doubt OS has errors and can be outdated in many places by a couple of years ( I have found more than enough of those myself). Furthermore, all of the OS products released lack many of the properties we are interested in like one way roads, turn and other restrictions, POIs, foot and cycle ways and all the other things that make OSM data such a rich and valuable dataset. So yes, the OS data will clearly not replace any of the traditional OSM surveying techniques or be the end of things. But it can be a great basis to build upon. As a comparison, have a look (assuming you have a timecapsal ;-)) at what the data of e.g. central London looked like in 2007. It already had surprisingly many roads, but hardly any POIs or other properties that we aim for now. Most of that came later in many iterations of improvement. A single pass of OSM surveying is not any better than the OS data per se. Also given that the errors introduced by tracing OS data are exactly the same type of errors introduced by manual OSM surveying, i.e. misspellings in roads, missing roads, outdated roads, ... We need to have the tools to deal with this kind of maintenance anyway. It is the iterations that make OSM data what it is, not the first pass ground survey. Creating a blanket base layer from OS data allows us to much better focus on the aspects that do distinguish us from every other map data provider with having to waste as little as possible resources on the stuff everyone else has too. 2) large scale imports and tracing hinders community growth: This perhaps is the more important of the two arguments, as indeed what distinguishes us from everyone else is the community and without the community and its constant iterations and improvements, OSM data will bit rot just as much as all other data. However I don't think there is any clear evidence either way of what non local mapping does to communities and it remains hotly debated. The negative effects claimed are usually of the form a) The area looks complete, there is nothing more to do, so why bother. Or, it isn't as much fun to add a POI than a whole new village on a blank canvas. b) I put in all this effort into mapping an area
Re: [Talk-GB] tracing lakes with Potlatch
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 13:37:58 +0100 From: Henry Gomersall h...@cantab.net Subject: [Talk-GB] tracing lakes with Potlatch To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: 1270557478.9949.39.ca...@whg21-laptop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear All, I've been keen for a while to improve the lake and tarns outlines in the lake district. It seems the current data is a little coarse and could be improved. The (fairly poor) aerial imagery seems plenty good enough to get a decent outline, but Potlatch won't allow zooming beyond a certain level in this region, which makes it difficult. Is this something the Potlach 2 will allow? Also, is it worth bothering, as it seems some of the new OS datasets will have decent lakes and rivers. Cheers, Henry I've been tracing from the OS 1:25k first series which Andy Robinson is uploading as a potlatch layer. (see http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.5384502410889lon=-2.8754997253418zoom=13and http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.3379497528076lon=-2.28412628173828zoom=13 ). You can trace at zoom level 17, and the rectification of the maps is pretty good (compare roads on the maplayer with gps traces). The yahoo imagery for rural areas is worse than useless, IMHO, and the NPE is not well rectified - a comment on the standard of the original mapping, not those who rectified the data for OSM use, I hasten to add. There are very few of the maps available in the Lakes at the moment, but I'm hopeful Andy will continue to upload once the furore over OSOpenData has settled a little. As for the comment from another contributor suggesting don't bother tracing - I say go for it, so long as you have local knowledge of the areas concerned - look further afield (Dales, N York moors etc if you know the areas) and get some detail on, but use the best source for tracing available; which at the moment is OS1:25k First Edition. Cheers, Phil. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Virgin Train Traces (Richard Mann)
richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com wrote: A quick look at oepnvkarte indicates we have all of Virgin's operating routes already. Maybe some of the traces aren't great, but I think some tracing off NPE ought to fix that, surely? While positional info is probably in the trains (though I don't remember it ever being discussed in the context of Pendolino or Voyager), the effort required to extract it is probably several times greater than simply carting your own GPS around. Richard-- NPE tracing is not that accurate, certainly in Lancs/Yorks - the Morecambe - Skipton line is fairly approximate in several areas. The Yahoo imagery is so small as to be next to useless, especially now so many other ways are mapped. I interpreted John McKerrels email to be an attempt to save someone the time (and expense?) of actually getting GPS traces themselves. I wonder if other operators would be as helpful? Phil. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Map of Trace data, was: Re: Stitching Aerial Photographs (John Robert Peterson)
Thanks for that, but bearing in mind I am not a programmer, how does it help me? :-\ I don't know the ID for any tracks there may or may not be in the area i (may) want to map, and I can't find a way in OSM to reveal any GPS trace ID other than a GPS Trace filename, (not even with my own traces). if there is a way to reveal the ID, please let me know. Thanks, Phil James OJ W wrote: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Phil James peerja...@googlemail.com wrote: John Robert Peterson wrote: Do we have anything that will draw map tiles of the trace data? (I'd like this for another project anyway: checking whether traces exist for an area when out with a mobile device) if it's a public gpx, then look for it at http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/gpx ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Map of Trace data, was: Re: Stitching Aerial Photographs (John Robert Peterson)
John Robert Peterson wrote: Do we have anything that will draw map tiles of the trace data? (I'd like this for another project anyway: checking whether traces exist for an area when out with a mobile device) +1 for that; it's a real pain when people don't include source data, especially for rural areas, and whilst it is possible to view the traces (if any) in potlatch, it's a long winded way of finding out what still needs surveying. Phil James ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Talk-GB Digest, Vol 33, Issue 24
talk-gb-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: Send Talk-GB mailing list submissions to talk-gb@openstreetmap.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to talk-gb-requ...@openstreetmap.org You can reach the person managing the list at talk-gb-ow...@openstreetmap.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Talk-GB digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Authorities, boundaries and admin-levels (Peter Childs) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 18:41:59 +0100 From: Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Authorities, boundaries and admin-levels Cc: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: a2de01dd0906131041l5dda4bc9h88fef7556e086...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2009/6/13 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 13 Jun 2009, at 09:30, Peter Childs wrote: 2009/6/11 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: And here is the current OSM guidance:- http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:admin_level#admin_level In order to tie in with NUTS and with guidance for other countries within OSM we might want to do the following for England (Scotland and Wales would be similar but would skip some levels):- UK (admin_level=2) England/Wales/Scotland (admin_level=4) English regions (North East, East of England etc) (also admin_level=4 as per NUTS) Ceremonial counties - where they exist (admin_level= 5) County Councils/Unitary Authorities (admin-level=6) Districts ?(admin-level=8) ?districts / London boroughs / metropolitan boroughs. Whats the simplest way of adding a boundary? I notice that Medway does not have one, I know ruthley where it should be, but have no idea of how to go about adding the relevant relation/way. I'm fine adding Roads and smaller stuff but the boundary stuff just throws me. It is better to use a relation for the boundary rather than way tags which used to be the only way to do it. Add the appropriate existing ways (rivers/roads etc) to a new relation. You may need to split roads/rivers where the boundary diverges. For some sections of the boundary you will need to add new ways (where it goes across fields). I just add a 'note=administrative boundary' tag to those ways. The only source of data we can legally use for the boundary to by knowledge is the NPE maps base which shows boundaries as a dotted line if you are lucky and if they have not moved in the past 50 years. I also check wikipedia as a cross check Given that Medway is less than 50 years old that could be a problem. Not necessarily - if you know from local knowledge which areas are included in Medway, you could use the boundaries marked on NPE to guide you as to where the 'new' boundary is - I've used this principle to map some of the 'new' (!974, FGS!) North Yorks/ Cumbria boundary, using the old district boundaries - might not be perfect, but if someone knows different... Phil James ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
