Re: [Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
Couldn't agree more with Jerry's post which shows a pragmatic and real world view (also Richard F's elsewhere). To me what this highlights is the need for a more organised and diplomatic approach to promoting OSM in the UK. Also the need for a whole host of internal housekeeping tasks. Regrds Brian On 2 April 2015 at 19:04, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote: It's worth considering the following; - CRT are using their own (high quality, high consistency) data. No need for OSM data. - OSM detail is highly variable, and parts of CRT's system might not be mapped at an appropriate level of detail or accuracy. - OSM tagging etc. is prone to change which would involve extra expense in tweaking the base cartography rules (see tagging discussion on lock_gates for an example which would affect canal cartography). (See also the discussion of pipeline tagging which directly affected client work of someone on this list). - OSM does not have the funds or people to offer either financial support or equivalent staff involvement which I imagine the partnership with Google involves. - OSM does not have the means to provide services and service delivery on knowable timescales and costs (for instance doing Streetview for towpaths. - There is no OSM technology which a) matches GSVs capabilities; or b) can capture 360 degree panorama images quickly. - Integration of CRTs assets into a widely used search engine and familiar software (GMaps, GSV) is likely to bring tangible benefits to CRT far faster than using OSM. CRT needs to find new sources of funding, so this is a non-trivial issue. Lamenting that CRT are not using OSM fails to recognise that OSM are not a service provider. Equally, OSM data is not consistent enough to provide a base layer for this kind of work. And finally, I imagine, this is done to fairly fixed timescales: again something which OSM introduces imponderables, aka unknowable risk factors. Some of these things can be changed, but others represent things which just are not part of OSM and are unlikely to be so in the foreseeable future. I'm proud that we can be more accurate and up-to-date than Google Maps and the Ordnance Survey, but I dont make the mistake of thinking that we are a pure substitution play. Jerry On 2 April 2015 at 17:01, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Google have the CRT helping them do streetview along the tow paths so, yes, a partnership exists. There is little point getting defensive, the better question to ask would be what does OpenStreetMap have to do so that next time you use our data rather than Google's? RichardF may have some insight into that but I'd understand if he'd rather not share his views right now. Rob ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
On 03/04/15 14:38, pmailkeey . wrote: OSM's actually global, Brian. And other countries handle their area of the map with a lot more active support. All we are talking about here is UK data on the UK list. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
On 02/04/15 12:28, Dave F. wrote: Ah, might as well forget it... Just read Richard F's blog on the CRT website. V. disappointing. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/new-maps-for-a-new-website It is much better to look at this as a positive rather than a negative! What *IS* needed is a successful way of using third party data sets rather than continually merging now quite complex data sets into the one unmanageable whole. I would hope to see the information available as an overlay to osm in the same way it overlays google. Then perhaps all the material that is simply missing or incorrect on google can be replaced with much more accurate local views :) Certainly the paths and access to the navigable sections of canals and rivers around here are currently totally blank on the google version. -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
Ah, might as well forget it... Just read Richard F's blog on the CRT website. V. disappointing. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/new-maps-for-a-new-website Dave F. On 01/04/2015 18:46, Dave F. wrote: Hi All The Canal River Trust are conducting a survey of the appearance of the latest version of their maps: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/crtlabs/map.html Considering one of the suggestions was to utilise OSM, the response is disappointing: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/thanks-for-the-map-feedback This is one of a few charities/community based organisations I've noticed that's jumped into bed with a money spinning conglomerate rather than a fellow collaborative/crowd sourced organisation. Is there anybody here who has sway with the CRT who could persuade them to change their minds? (Richard F.?) Cheers Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
On 02/04/2015 12:41, Lester Caine wrote: On 02/04/15 12:28, Dave F. wrote: Ah, might as well forget it... Just read Richard F's blog on the CRT website. V. disappointing. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/new-maps-for-a-new-website It is much better to look at this as a positive rather than a negative! What *IS* needed is a successful way of using third party data sets rather than continually merging now quite complex data sets into the one unmanageable whole. I would hope to see the information available as an overlay to osm in the same way it overlays google. As you can see. it's not just me who want CRT to use OSM: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/thanks-for-the-map-feedback Note paragraph: We’re very fortunate to have Google as one of our partners, so we won’t be moving away from Google as the base layer for the map. My tweets to Victoria Peckett, CRT's 'digital manager': I'm disappointed by your decision not to use OSM, especially since it has more data, detail accuracy. When things change, they're updated quicker in OSM (especially pubs!). Please reconsider your decision to make CRT maps even better. Genuinely surprised you think Google to be better quality than OSM (sent her comparative links) Her reply: Thx for feedback. Understand not everyone will prefer Google, but is very widely used format one many people familiar with Me: It's a shame a collaborative/volunteer org. like the CRT can't embrace a similar volunteer/crowd sourced project. OSM already contains much canal ancillary data. Does Google? (which, incidentally, owns any data you freely enter into it) Hi Dave. Understand your prefer OSM but we believe our styling over Google base layer does offer good quality experience data.. Me: As a digital manager it's a shame you're unaware of OSM's rendering abilities, even better than Google. Annoyed with @richardf I have to say, considering the response (I found one many people familiar with especially irritating) I'm struggling to see the positive. Richard F: Is it planned to release the SAP database under an open license? Cheers Dave F. Then perhaps all the material that is simply missing or incorrect on google can be replaced with much more accurate local views :) Certainly the paths and access to the navigable sections of canals and rivers around here are currently totally blank on the google version. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
Dave, I'm not giving up ! On 2 April 2015 at 12:41, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: On 02/04/15 12:28, Dave F. wrote: Ah, might as well forget it... Just read Richard F's blog on the CRT website. V. disappointing. https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/new-maps-for-a-new-website It is much better to look at this as a positive rather than a negative! What *IS* needed is a successful way of using third party data sets rather than continually merging now quite complex data sets into the one unmanageable whole. I would hope to see the information available as an overlay to osm in the same way it overlays google. Then perhaps all the material that is simply missing or incorrect on google can be replaced with much more accurate local views :) Certainly the paths and access to the navigable sections of canals and rivers around here are currently totally blank on the google version. I think it'd help if we can show them the way. OSM doesn't show water flow in canals (I've tried!) and the lock gate(s) icon needs fixing - to a going against the flow. I think much of the data on their map is already on OSM - needs checking though. I also note they don't offer a cycle map - which we'll obviously show. Stick with that - we'll get the cycling fraternity pressing for them to use OSM ! -- Mike. @millomweb https://sites.google.com/site/millomweb/index/introduction - For all your info on Millom and South Copeland via *the area's premier website - * *currently unavailable due to ongoing harassment of me, my family, property pets* TCs https://sites.google.com/site/pmailkeey/e-mail ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Canal River Trust maps
Hi All The Canal River Trust are conducting a survey of the appearance of the latest version of their maps: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/crtlabs/map.html Considering one of the suggestions was to utilise OSM, the response is disappointing: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blog/odette-myall/thanks-for-the-map-feedback This is one of a few charities/community based organisations I've noticed that's jumped into bed with a money spinning conglomerate rather than a fellow collaborative/crowd sourced organisation. Is there anybody here who has sway with the CRT who could persuade them to change their minds? (Richard F.?) Cheers Dave F. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
