Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Donald Noble]

The locations on the lucky2bhere website don't seem to be that accurate for
the ones I have some local knowledge of in the Spey valley, so would only
be of use as a guide for accurate survey.

Regards, Donald

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 at 16:38, Alasdair McKinnon 
wrote:

> I recently saw this article in The Courier regarding defibrillator maps
> for Perthshire.
>
>
> https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/260155/map-rolled-out-for-life-saving-equipment
> /
>
> Hopefully some usable info there.
>
> Al.
>
> Sent from BlueMail 
>
> On 18 Aug 2016, at 15:09, Craig Wallace  wrote:
>
>> On 2016-08-16 09:35, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>>
>>>  Just to let you know, that I've now got another dataset in my
>>>  Defibrillator comparison tool at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/
>>>  . East Midlands Ambulance Service has provided the locations of AEDs
>>>  that they know about, and these have now been imported into the tool.
>>>  As in other areas, our mapping of Defibrillators in the East Midlands
>>>  doesn't seem to be very complete yet...
>>>
>>
>> For Scotland, maybe look at Lucky 2 B Here. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/
>> They have supplied a lot of defibrillators, mostly around the west
>> highlands and islands.
>>
>> They have a Google map on their website, maybe they could provide the
>> data. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/live-aed-map/
>> I'm not sure how accurate their locations are. Note some of them may not
>> be publicly accessible, ie in sports clubs or schools, and it seems some
>> are on fishing boats.
>>
>> I have surveyed a few of the local ones, and added them to OSM.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> --
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Alasdair McKinnon]

I recently saw this article in The Courier regarding defibrillator maps for 
Perthshire. 

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/perth-kinross/260155/map-rolled-out-for-life-saving-equipment/

Hopefully some usable info there.

Al.

Sent from BlueMail



On 18 Aug 2016, 15:09, at 15:09, Craig Wallace  wrote:
>On 2016-08-16 09:35, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>> Just to let you know, that I've now got another dataset in my
>> Defibrillator comparison tool at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/
>> . East Midlands Ambulance Service has provided the locations of AEDs
>> that they know about, and these have now been imported into the tool.
>> As in other areas, our mapping of Defibrillators in the East Midlands
>> doesn't seem to be very complete yet...
>
>For Scotland, maybe look at Lucky 2 B Here. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/
>They have supplied a lot of defibrillators, mostly around the west 
>highlands and islands.
>
>They have a Google map on their website, maybe they could provide the 
>data. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/live-aed-map/
>I'm not sure how accurate their locations are. Note some of them may
>not 
>be publicly accessible, ie in sports clubs or schools, and it seems
>some 
>are on fishing boats.
>
>I have surveyed a few of the local ones, and added them to OSM.
>
>Craig
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Craig Wallace]

On 2016-08-16 09:35, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

Just to let you know, that I've now got another dataset in my
Defibrillator comparison tool at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/
. East Midlands Ambulance Service has provided the locations of AEDs
that they know about, and these have now been imported into the tool.
As in other areas, our mapping of Defibrillators in the East Midlands
doesn't seem to be very complete yet...


For Scotland, maybe look at Lucky 2 B Here. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/
They have supplied a lot of defibrillators, mostly around the west 
highlands and islands.


They have a Google map on their website, maybe they could provide the 
data. http://www.lucky2bhere.org/live-aed-map/
I'm not sure how accurate their locations are. Note some of them may not 
be publicly accessible, ie in sports clubs or schools, and it seems some 
are on fishing boats.


I have surveyed a few of the local ones, and added them to OSM.

Craig

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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Andy Townsend]

On 16/08/2016 09:35, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

As in other areas, our mapping of Defibrillators in the East Midlands
doesn't seem to be very complete yet...


Thanks Robert.  The two nearest to me that I'm aware of are actually 
very new - they've only appeared within the last couple of months, so 
it's not too much of a surprise that they haven't been mapped yet.


Cheers,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Dave F]

Hi

What a ridiculous response from South West Ambulance Services:

"There is a significant risk arising from a list of community
defibrillators appearing in the public domain..."

Clearly Mr Ken Wenman is unaware that 'community' & 'public' are one & 
the same.


They're even publicly tweeting the locations:
https://twitter.com/swasFT/status/566261258610278400

Dave F.

On 16/08/2016 09:35, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

Just to let you know, that I've now got another dataset in my
Defibrillator comparison tool athttp://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/
. East Midlands Ambulance Service has provided the locations of AEDs
that they know about, and these have now been imported into the tool.
As in other areas, our mapping of Defibrillators in the East Midlands
doesn't seem to be very complete yet...

Robert.

On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
  wrote:

It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
where one might be useful.

The different services seem to take quite different views on these
lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
list 
(http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm)
on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
wasting time in an emergency.

Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf  , and
done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
found athttp://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/  for any other
locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!

Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
(e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
like that in a location=* key.

In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
line they take...



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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

Just to let you know, that I've now got another dataset in my
Defibrillator comparison tool at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/
. East Midlands Ambulance Service has provided the locations of AEDs
that they know about, and these have now been imported into the tool.
As in other areas, our mapping of Defibrillators in the East Midlands
doesn't seem to be very complete yet...

Robert.

On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
 wrote:
> It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
> Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
> that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
> view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
> where one might be useful.
>
> The different services seem to take quite different views on these
> lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
> list 
> (http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm)
> on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
> more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
> an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
> spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
> vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
> wasting time in an emergency.
>
> Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
> done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
> locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
> haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
> are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!
>
> Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
> reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
> ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
> (e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
> find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
> like that in a location=* key.
>
> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
> line they take...


-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Ed Loach]

I've just emailed the East of England Ambulance Service to let them know their 
current worksheet of locations has the postcode of the Wivenhoe Co-Op store 
against both the Wivenhoe location and the Brightlingsea location (which should 
be CO7 0BT).

Discrepancy spotted thanks to
http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/CO/

Best wishes,

Ed


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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Gregory]

I have a reply from the North East Ambulance Service.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/locations_of_defibulators#incoming-818141

2nd and 3rd PDFs (CPADS and STATICS) contain a table of locations. Statics
not being 24/7 access, but I think it's still good to include (with
suitable tagging).


Ben, you could try Yorkshire Ambulance Service, and refer to that website.
Maybe "request additional information about our services" is the most
appropriate on http://www.yas.nhs.uk/TalktoUs/Contact_Us.html


>From Newcastle,
Gregory.

On 23 May 2016 at 22:50, Ben Pollinger  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> There's a project started for Yorkshire and Humber, which seems to be run
> by Yorkshire Ambulance Service, BHF and others:
> https://www.mapmydefib.com
>
> No actual map there, just a form asking for people to register new defibs.
>
> I'm not sure how to approach them but willing to give something a go.
>
> Ben
>
> On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
> robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
>> Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
>> that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
>> view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
>> where one might be useful.
>>
>> The different services seem to take quite different views on these
>> lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
>> list (
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm
>> )
>> on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
>> more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
>> an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
>> spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
>> vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
>> wasting time in an emergency.
>>
>> Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
>> done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
>> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
>> locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
>> haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
>> are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!
>>
>> Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
>> reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
>> ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
>> (e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
>> find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
>> like that in a location=* key.
>>
>> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
>> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
>> line they take...
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>> --
>> Robert Whittaker
>>
>> ___
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Ben Pollinger]

Hello all,

There's a project started for Yorkshire and Humber, which seems to be run
by Yorkshire Ambulance Service, BHF and others:
https://www.mapmydefib.com

No actual map there, just a form asking for people to register new defibs.

I'm not sure how to approach them but willing to give something a go.

Ben

On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) <
robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
> Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
> that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
> view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
> where one might be useful.
>
> The different services seem to take quite different views on these
> lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
> list (
> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm
> )
> on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
> more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
> an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
> spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
> vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
> wasting time in an emergency.
>
> Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
> done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
> locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
> haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
> are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!
>
> Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
> reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
> ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
> (e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
> find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
> like that in a location=* key.
>
> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
> line they take...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Robert.
>
> --
> Robert Whittaker
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 21 May 2016 at 20:02, Dave F  wrote:
> Have you been in contact with this organisation?
>
> http://www.heartsafe.org.uk/AED-Locations

No, but I had a look at their map before. At least in my local area,
it had fewer public AEDs than the East Midlands Ambulance service list
-- so I figured it wasn't particularly complete.

Robert.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Eric Grosso]

Hi all,

I've just made a request to the Scottish Ambulance Service. I'll let you
know about their answer.

I checked the website that Dave mentioned (h
ttp://www.heartsafe.org.uk/AED-Locations
) and it appears that only few
AEDs are mapped, e.g. by comparison with this 2014 map in Edinburgh:
http://www2.jpscotland.co.uk/en/shockingmap.pdf

Eric

On 21 May 2016 at 20:02, Dave F  wrote:

> Have you been in contact with this organisation?
>
> http://www.heartsafe.org.uk/AED-Locations
>
> Dave F.
>
> On 21/05/2016 19:48, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>
>> On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> A rough and ready tool can be
>>> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
>>> locals who want to use it.
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>
>>> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
>>> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
>>> line they take...
>>>
>> I've had replies from both now. East Midlands supplied a list without
>> postcodes or coordinates [2], so I've asked if they really don't have
>> any better location info. West Midlands supplied a list with postcodes
>> [2] -- and I've now loaded them into my tool [3].
>>
>> Happy mapping,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca
>> [2]
>> https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca_2
>> [3] http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Dave F]

Have you been in contact with this organisation?

http://www.heartsafe.org.uk/AED-Locations

Dave F.

On 21/05/2016 19:48, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
 wrote:

A rough and ready tool can be
found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
locals who want to use it.


[snip]

In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
line they take...

I've had replies from both now. East Midlands supplied a list without
postcodes or coordinates [2], so I've asked if they really don't have
any better location info. West Midlands supplied a list with postcodes
[2] -- and I've now loaded them into my tool [3].

Happy mapping,

Robert.

[1] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca
[2] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca_2
[3] http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/




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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On 22 April 2016 at 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
 wrote:
> A rough and ready tool can be
> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
> locals who want to use it.
>
[snip]
>
> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
> line they take...

I've had replies from both now. East Midlands supplied a list without
postcodes or coordinates [2], so I've asked if they really don't have
any better location info. West Midlands supplied a list with postcodes
[2] -- and I've now loaded them into my tool [3].

Happy mapping,

Robert.

[1] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca
[2] https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillator_loca_2
[3] http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/

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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Gregory]

Is healthcare going to be our Q2 project?
It would be good to get a co-ordination list on a wiki page somewhere.

I've made a request to the North East Ambulance Service. However they're
aware not everyone informs them, so I'll probably contact some other
organisations I know.
They've previously responded to a request about Sunderland.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_access_defibrillators_5#incoming-536749

Gregory.

On 23 April 2016 at 12:37, Dave F  wrote:

> Announced yesterday: Tesco is set to introduce defibrillators in over 900
> of its largest stores
>
> http://www.tescoplc.com/index.asp?pageid=17=1350
>
> Dave F.
>
>
> On 22/04/2016 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>
>> It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
>> Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
>> that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
>> view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
>> where one might be useful.
>>
>> The different services seem to take quite different views on these
>> lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
>> list (
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm
>> )
>> on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
>> more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
>> an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
>> spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
>> vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
>> wasting time in an emergency.
>>
>> Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
>> http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
>> done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
>> found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
>> locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
>> haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
>> are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!
>>
>> Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
>> reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
>> ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
>> (e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
>> find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
>> like that in a location=* key.
>>
>> In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
>> and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
>> line they take...
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Dave F]

Announced yesterday: Tesco is set to introduce defibrillators in over 
900 of its largest stores


http://www.tescoplc.com/index.asp?pageid=17=1350

Dave F.

On 22/04/2016 14:43, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
where one might be useful.

The different services seem to take quite different views on these
lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
list 
(http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm)
on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
wasting time in an emergency.

Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!

Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
(e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
like that in a location=* key.

In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
line they take...

Best wishes,

Robert.




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[Talk-GB] Defibrillator Mapping

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

It was suggested that trying to increase our mapping of public
Defibrillators would be a good think. After a bit of digging, it seems
that Ambulance Services typically maintain a list of locations, with a
view to informing people about them if a 999 call comes in nearby
where one might be useful.

The different services seem to take quite different views on these
lists. My local service (East of England) actively publicise their
list 
(http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get-involved/Community-Public-Access-Defibrillators.htm)
on the grounds that raising awareness of the locations will make it
more likely that someone will know about and find a defibrillator in
an emergency. Other services have refused FOI requests on the (IMO
spurious) grounds that publicising the list will make thefts /
vandalism more likely, and out of date information may lead to people
wasting time in an emergency.

Anyway, I've taken the East of England list from
http://www.eastamb.nhs.uk/Get%20involved/CPADs/CPAD%20List.pdf , and
done a comparison with the OSM data. A rough and ready tool can be
found at http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/defib/progress/ for any other
locals who want to use it. We've got a small number of locations they
haven't, and some of their postcodes may not be quite right. But there
are a lot on their list that aren't mapped yet!

Regarding tagging, it seems that a lot of the cabinets have a
reference number on the outside, so I'd suggest recording that in the
ref=* tag. Also, I think a description of the location would be useful
(e.g. "Outside wall of McDonalds, facing Store 21") to help people
find the defibrillator when they need it. I've been putting something
like that in a location=* key.

In terms of getting more data, I've put in FOI requests to the East
and West Midlands Ambulance Services for starters, so we'll see what
line they take...

Best wishes,

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker

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