Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Andy Townsend 

On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:

Hi all

General Elections Online 
 (hosted 
at parliament.uk ) have got a failed page where 
the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".


I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.

Can anyone point me to the precise technical detail their webmaster 
will need? Is it the wiki page, Deploying your own Slippy Map 
?



It depends very much on what they want to do.

At the highest level, they have a choice of two options - they can pay 
someone else to provide a service to them or they can create something 
themselves without using a third party.


IF someone else is providing a service the amount work that they need to 
do could be anything from nothing (like a new kitchen planned and 
installed for you for lots of £) to quite a lot (order some units from 
B and assemble it yourself).


Andy's already mentioned https://switch2osm.org/ - that has an 
(incomplete) providers list at https://switch2osm.org/providers/ .  Many 
of the organisations there will be able to help and will be able to help 
them and may offer different products for different levels of involvement.


There's also the "completely do it yourself" option, which is actually 
somewhat easier than the kitchen analogue of a pile of timber from 
Jewson's.  One option that would achieve this would need:


 * Some map tiles underneath (which don't need to be hugely detailed)
 * A way of displaying constituency boundaries on top
 * A way of handling "user clicks on constituency A, display details"

The hard part might actually be making the whole lot robust enough to 
cope with demand over the next couple of weeks.  What wouldn't be a good 
idea would be using an existing set of free-at-the-point-of-use map 
tiles (such as the ones at OpenStreetMap.org) and expecting them to 
"just cope" with the volume - see 
https://twitter.com/OSM_Tech/status/1122495446465810438 for what 
happened when the London Marathon did that (for completeness the 
relevant policy is at 
https://operations.osmfoundation.org/policies/tiles/ ).


If they did want to "completely do it themselves" then 
https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-18-04-lts/ 
will get them some raster map tiles, and 
https://switch2osm.org/using-tiles/ and the examples at (to pick just 
one example) https://leafletjs.com/ will allow them to create overlays 
over those, and allow people to click through for particular information.


With regards to the "hard part" they can restrict the map zoom to 
something that is not too high (enough so that constituencies are 
visible and clickable should be good enough) prerender tiles and cache 
them, but I'm sure they must have lots of familiarity with this sort of 
problem given that they already run a public and intermittently very 
busy website.


Best Regards,

Andy


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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Edward Bainton 
I'll gladly help with the incorporation and structuring the finance. No
good at hardware or software though, and not sure what a sysadmin does...

So I take your point! I guess I wasn't really saying "someone should" but
"in principle could someone?"

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 17:09, Richard Fairhurst  wrote:

> Edward Bainton wrote:
> > Is there any reason why OSM can't set up a user co-op (for instance)
> > that would offer a paid tileserver service?
>
> It's an idea that's been thrown around now and then. In OSM, of course,
> "why
> can't OSM..." is usually best rephrased as "hey, let's...". First person
> plural. Thanks for volunteering! :)
>
> (Alternatively, if you want someone else to do it for you, then you can
> consider voting for OSMF board candidates who are likely to pursue this. I
> would really caution against this, though, because OSM infrastructure is
> currently run by volunteers and partly served by donated hardware; turning
> that into an, at least partially, paid-for service would probably
> necessitate rethinking the sysadmin and hardware situation from the ground
> up.)
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Great-Britain-f5372682.html
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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Richard Fairhurst 
Edward Bainton wrote:
> Is there any reason why OSM can't set up a user co-op (for instance) 
> that would offer a paid tileserver service?

It's an idea that's been thrown around now and then. In OSM, of course, "why
can't OSM..." is usually best rephrased as "hey, let's...". First person
plural. Thanks for volunteering! :)

(Alternatively, if you want someone else to do it for you, then you can
consider voting for OSMF board candidates who are likely to pursue this. I
would really caution against this, though, because OSM infrastructure is
currently run by volunteers and partly served by donated hardware; turning
that into an, at least partially, paid-for service would probably
necessitate rethinking the sysadmin and hardware situation from the ground
up.)

Richard




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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Edward Bainton 
I sense this is a good idea someone is sure to have had before and nixed -
or else it's not a good idea at all.

Is there any reason why OSM can't set up a user co-op (for instance) that
would offer a paid tileserver service?

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 15:58, Mark Goodge  wrote:

>
>
> On 03/12/2019 15:48, Tom Hughes wrote:
> > The reason they're getting that error is almost certainly that they
> > aren't paying and they're either not passing an API key at all or
> > they're passing one that is for a different site.
> >
> > Most likely the site was developed before API keys were required
> > and has never been updated, but if they add a key they will almost
> > certainly exceed the free allowance and have to pay which is likely
> > why they haven't done so.
>
> They are passing an API key. But it doesn't seem to have billing enabled
> on it. Hence it won't be allowed to generate billable API calls.
>
> Mark
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Mark Goodge 



On 03/12/2019 15:48, Tom Hughes wrote:

The reason they're getting that error is almost certainly that they
aren't paying and they're either not passing an API key at all or
they're passing one that is for a different site.

Most likely the site was developed before API keys were required
and has never been updated, but if they add a key they will almost
certainly exceed the free allowance and have to pay which is likely
why they haven't done so.


They are passing an API key. But it doesn't seem to have billing enabled 
on it. Hence it won't be allowed to generate billable API calls.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Andy Mabbett 
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 10:05, Gareth L  wrote:
>
> Potentially use 
> https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-put-OpenStreetMap-on-my-website

Fun though Quora is, I'd rather we pointed people at something that is
part of the OSM ecosystem;

   https://switch2osm.org/

which as created for this very purpose.

--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Mark Goodge 



On 03/12/2019 15:21, Edward Bainton wrote:
Interesting. Do they pay Google for the map and tileserver use (even if 
they don't realise that's what they're paying for)?


Or rather, since they've clearly not updated whatever agreement they had 
with Google for a while, /if/ the map were functioning would that mean 
they were paying Google?


Depending on how much usage it got, yes.

All Google Maps API usage now requires an API key. Each key has to be 
associated with a billing account, and all usage is chargeable. But each 
billing account gets $200 credit every calendar month, so if your total 
usage is less than that it remains free.


(There is still an embeddable non-API version of Google Maps, but it's 
very limited in functionality).


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Tom Hughes 

The reason they're getting that error is almost certainly that they
aren't paying and they're either not passing an API key at all or
they're passing one that is for a different site.

Most likely the site was developed before API keys were required
and has never been updated, but if they add a key they will almost
certainly exceed the free allowance and have to pay which is likely
why they haven't done so.

Tom

On 03/12/2019 15:21, Edward Bainton wrote:
Interesting. Do they pay Google for the map and tileserver use (even if 
they don't realise that's what they're paying for)?


Or rather, since they've clearly not updated whatever agreement they had 
with Google for a while, /if/ the map were functioning would that mean 
they were paying Google?


On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 14:46, David Woolley > wrote:


On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:
 >
 > General Elections Online
 >


 (hosted

 > at parliament.uk  )
have got a failed page where
 > the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".
 >
 > I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.
 >

The advantage to them of using Google is that Google provides the tile
servers.  OSM tile servers aren't funded to support a mass market use
like this, so the organisation will have to install and run their own
tile servers.


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--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/

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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Edward Bainton 
Interesting. Do they pay Google for the map and tileserver use (even if
they don't realise that's what they're paying for)?

Or rather, since they've clearly not updated whatever agreement they had
with Google for a while, *if* the map were functioning would that mean they
were paying Google?

On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 14:46, David Woolley 
wrote:

> On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:
> >
> > General Elections Online
> > <
> https://electionresults.parliament.uk/#Cities%20of%20London%20and%20Westminster>
>  (hosted
>
> > at parliament.uk ) have got a failed page where
> > the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".
> >
> > I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.
> >
>
> The advantage to them of using Google is that Google provides the tile
> servers.  OSM tile servers aren't funded to support a mass market use
> like this, so the organisation will have to install and run their own
> tile servers.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread David Woolley 

On 03/12/2019 09:47, Edward Bainton wrote:


General Elections Online 
 (hosted 
at parliament.uk ) have got a failed page where 
the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".


I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.



The advantage to them of using Google is that Google provides the tile 
servers.  OSM tile servers aren't funded to support a mass market use 
like this, so the organisation will have to install and run their own 
tile servers.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Elections Online website - candidate for OSM?

2019-12-03 Thread Gareth L 
Potentially use https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-put-OpenStreetMap-on-my-website

Gareth

On 3 Dec 2019, at 09:47, Edward Bainton  wrote:


Hi all

General Elections 
Online
 (hosted at parliament.uk) have got a failed page where 
the Google map is overlaid with "Development purposes only".

I was planning to suggest they use OSM instead.

Can anyone point me to the precise technical detail their webmaster will need? 
Is it the wiki page, Deploying your own Slippy 
Map?

Thanks,

Edward
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