Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Paul Norman]

On 9/14/2016 7:37 AM, Dave F wrote:
From the examples posted it's clear the recent rise is due to the iD 
editor's presets.


There have been mentions of OSM Carto and iD presets causing an increase 
in place=farm usage.


Support for place=farm was added to the default style on osm.org back in 
2011.[1] iD with place=farm support was released on 2015-04-30 with iD 
v1.7.1. The big increases in the rate of tagging place=farm were in July 
2013, January 2015, and January 2016. The usage seems uncorrelated with 
presets or renderer support.



[1]: 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/mapnik-stylesheets/commit/c4727005f89ae603d43c0e49778b57f07f8eb036


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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Andy Allan]

On 14 September 2016 at 13:57, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14-Sep-16 09:08 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
>>
>> Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>
>>> ** many "names" on OS OpenData aren't names at all (for example,
>>> search for "poultry houses" in OSM and you'll get lots of things
>>> "named" that).
>>
>> On the hillside above the Crawnon Valley (up from Llangynidr in the Brecon
>> Beacons) OS StreetView has helpfully marked "Sheep".
>>
>
> Just came across a peak named "phone reception" ... very handy.. I wonder
> which provider?

My favourite this week is a car park named "Car Park to meet staff
from Kielder Observatory." which might be a true fact but it's
unlikely to be the actual name.

http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/311395410

Thanks,
Andy

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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Dave F]

From the examples posted it's clear the recent rise is due to the iD 
editor's presets.


And the wiki's description being "Individually named farm (but not 
isolated)." Doesn't help.


Dave F.

On 13/09/2016 23:36, Michael Booth wrote:
I noticed via overpass-turbo there's quite a lot of place=farm to the 
north of Dundee, which seem to have all been added by the same person. 
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/inl


Many of them have the place=farm node on top of an unnamed farmyard 
way, for example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3922104085 - 
surely the name should just be added to the farmyard?


On 13/09/2016 13:29, Dave F wrote:

Hi
Off on a slight tangent.

There's been an increase (world wide) in the use of place=farm. If 
you fill out the boxes on this site you'll see: 
http://taghistory.raifer.tech/

Over 19k are in GB: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/place=farm

The reason for the increase could be it being displayed in the OSM 
carto rendering

Just one example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4364588497

I believe many, if not all, are misinterpretations & should be 
landuse=farmyard.
The wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm says "a place named 
by a name of a farm"
To me, that means a collection of houses not associated with the farm 
being collectively given the name of that farm, so in effect, a 
hamlet has been named, say, Manor Farm.


Is that a common occurrence? I know of no such in my locale.

Dave F.

On 11/09/2016 18:45, Brian Prangle wrote:


Today saw us pass the 1,000 total for farmyards added during this 
project(1008 to be precise).


Well done to everyone who has participated. What has been the most 
unusual farm name anyone has come across?


Only a couple of weeks left - time to start thinking about our next 
quarterly project, while we see how many more farmyards we can add.


Regards

Brian



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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Warin]

On 14-Sep-16 09:08 AM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Andy Townsend wrote:

** many "names" on OS OpenData aren't names at all (for example,
search for "poultry houses" in OSM and you'll get lots of things
"named" that).

On the hillside above the Crawnon Valley (up from Llangynidr in the Brecon
Beacons) OS StreetView has helpfully marked "Sheep".



Just came across a peak named "phone reception" ... very handy.. I wonder which 
provider?
If it is an emergency then 112 should connect anywhere in the world... talking 
to them might be a language problem though.


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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Andy Robinson]

Baaarking

-Original Message-
From: Richard Fairhurst [mailto:rich...@systemed.net] 
Sent: 14 September 2016 00:08
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer 
quarterly project)

Andy Townsend wrote:
> ** many "names" on OS OpenData aren't names at all (for example, 
> search for "poultry houses" in OSM and you'll get lots of things 
> "named" that).

On the hillside above the Crawnon Valley (up from Llangynidr in the Brecon
Beacons) OS StreetView has helpfully marked "Sheep".

cheers
Richard



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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Richard Fairhurst]

Andy Townsend wrote:
> ** many "names" on OS OpenData aren't names at all (for example, 
> search for "poultry houses" in OSM and you'll get lots of things 
> "named" that).

On the hillside above the Crawnon Valley (up from Llangynidr in the Brecon
Beacons) OS StreetView has helpfully marked "Sheep".

cheers
Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/Summer-quarterly-project-tp5882378p5882528.html
Sent from the Great Britain mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Michael Booth]

I noticed via overpass-turbo there's quite a lot of place=farm to the 
north of Dundee, which seem to have all been added by the same person. 
http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/inl


Many of them have the place=farm node on top of an unnamed farmyard way, 
for example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3922104085 - surely the 
name should just be added to the farmyard?


On 13/09/2016 13:29, Dave F wrote:

Hi
Off on a slight tangent.

There's been an increase (world wide) in the use of place=farm. If you 
fill out the boxes on this site you'll see: http://taghistory.raifer.tech/

Over 19k are in GB: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/place=farm

The reason for the increase could be it being displayed in the OSM 
carto rendering

Just one example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4364588497

I believe many, if not all, are misinterpretations & should be 
landuse=farmyard.
The wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm says "a place named 
by a name of a farm"
To me, that means a collection of houses not associated with the farm 
being collectively given the name of that farm, so in effect, a hamlet 
has been named, say, Manor Farm.


Is that a common occurrence? I know of no such in my locale.

Dave F.

On 11/09/2016 18:45, Brian Prangle wrote:


Today saw us pass the 1,000 total for farmyards added during this 
project(1008 to be precise).


Well done to everyone who has participated. What has been the most 
unusual farm name anyone has come across?


Only a couple of weeks left - time to start thinking about our next 
quarterly project, while we see how many more farmyards we can add.


Regards

Brian



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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Brian Prangle]

There are loads all across Herefordshire, mostly added by one user.
Generally they are farms, but not always. I'm gradually replacing them
withlanduse=farmyard polygons

Regards

Brian

On 13 September 2016 at 13:29, Dave F  wrote:

> Hi
> Off on a slight tangent.
>
> There's been an increase (world wide) in the use of place=farm. If you
> fill out the boxes on this site you'll see: http://taghistory.raifer.tech/
> Over 19k are in GB: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/place=farm
>
> The reason for the increase could be it being displayed in the OSM carto
> rendering
> Just one example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4364588497
>
> I believe many, if not all, are misinterpretations & should be
> landuse=farmyard.
> The wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm says "a place named by a
> name of a farm"
> To me, that means a collection of houses not associated with the farm
> being collectively given the name of that farm, so in effect, a hamlet has
> been named, say, Manor Farm.
>
> Is that a common occurrence? I know of no such in my locale.
>
> Dave F.
>
> On 11/09/2016 18:45, Brian Prangle wrote:
>
> Today saw us pass the 1,000 total for farmyards added during this
> project(1008 to be precise).
>
> Well done to everyone who has participated. What has been the most unusual
> farm name anyone has come across?
>
> Only a couple of weeks left - time to start thinking about our next
> quarterly project, while we see how many more farmyards we can add.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[SK53]

I corrected a couple the other day. One labelled place=farm cannot have
been a farm for a hundred years or more, just retaining "Farm" in the name.
It is in the urban part of Oakham, and is now a family house with a large
garden.

In general place=farm & place=isolated_dwelling can be regarded as
incorrect mapping more or less anywhere in the UK. I'd just about accept
the latter for Bron-yr-Aur (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/368956264/history), but in most cases
cartographic choices about labelling farmsteads and outlying houses are
just that and can safely be left to suitable post-processing steps. In the
vast majority of cases (i.e., not Poultry Houses) the most suitable tag is
addr;housename.

I re-tag when there are a lot in an area I am editing.

Jerry

On 13 September 2016 at 13:58, Andy Townsend  wrote:

> On 13/09/2016 13:29, Dave F wrote:
>
>>
>> There's been an increase (world wide) in the use of place=farm.
>>
> ...
>
>> The reason for the increase could be it being displayed in the OSM carto
>> rendering
>> Just one example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4364588497
>>
>> I believe many, if not all, are misinterpretations & should be
>> landuse=farmyard.
>>
>
> I'd agree with that.
>
> The wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm says "a place named by a
>> name of a farm"
>> To me, that means a collection of houses not associated with the farm
>> being collectively given the name of that farm, so in effect, a hamlet has
>> been named, say, Manor Farm.
>>
>> Is that a common occurrence? I know of no such in my locale.
>>
>
> I can think of a couple of places near me that might qualify at a real
> stretch (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/372460251 is one such) but the
> vast majority are names blindly copied from OS OpenData StreetView**,
> without any thought being given to whether the place is a "just a farmyard"
> or "actually a place" (or even if it is a working farm at all - many are
> historical names on OS OpenData, and are now just residential properties).
>
> Similar examples are "place=locality" and "place=isolated_dwelling" (for a
> laugh try searching for those and seeing just how un-isolated some of those
> are) - they seem to have gone from the OS OpenData to OSM via the user's
> hands, keyboard and mouse without the user's brain being involved in the
> process.
>
> As I'm coming across these when out and about I'm tidying them up* where
> there is a more appropriate tagging, but there are an awful lot still to
> do.  I tend to use the fact that a large number of "place=farm" and
> "place=isolated_dwelling" exist as an indicator that somewhere needs
> visiting and mapping properly.
>
> ... and yes, I have tried suggesting to the biggest culprit locally that
> "there's no way that that is a valid name", to no avail.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andy
>
>
> * see e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.2689/-0.8386
>
> ** many "names" on OS OpenData aren't names at all (for example, search
> for "poultry houses" in OSM and you'll get lots of things "named" that).
> Where I live the OS has 5 village names for where I live; the correct
> number is at most 2.
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Andy Townsend]

On 13/09/2016 13:29, Dave F wrote:


There's been an increase (world wide) in the use of place=farm.

...
The reason for the increase could be it being displayed in the OSM 
carto rendering

Just one example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4364588497

I believe many, if not all, are misinterpretations & should be 
landuse=farmyard.


I'd agree with that.

The wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm says "a place named 
by a name of a farm"
To me, that means a collection of houses not associated with the farm 
being collectively given the name of that farm, so in effect, a hamlet 
has been named, say, Manor Farm.


Is that a common occurrence? I know of no such in my locale.


I can think of a couple of places near me that might qualify at a real 
stretch (http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/372460251 is one such) but the 
vast majority are names blindly copied from OS OpenData StreetView**, 
without any thought being given to whether the place is a "just a 
farmyard" or "actually a place" (or even if it is a working farm at all 
- many are historical names on OS OpenData, and are now just residential 
properties).


Similar examples are "place=locality" and "place=isolated_dwelling" (for 
a laugh try searching for those and seeing just how un-isolated some of 
those are) - they seem to have gone from the OS OpenData to OSM via the 
user's hands, keyboard and mouse without the user's brain being involved 
in the process.


As I'm coming across these when out and about I'm tidying them up* where 
there is a more appropriate tagging, but there are an awful lot still to 
do.  I tend to use the fact that a large number of "place=farm" and 
"place=isolated_dwelling" exist as an indicator that somewhere needs 
visiting and mapping properly.


... and yes, I have tried suggesting to the biggest culprit locally that 
"there's no way that that is a valid name", to no avail.


Cheers,

Andy


* see e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/53.2689/-0.8386

** many "names" on OS OpenData aren't names at all (for example, search 
for "poultry houses" in OSM and you'll get lots of things "named" 
that).  Where I live the OS has 5 village names for where I live; the 
correct number is at most 2.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Users tagging Farmyard as place=farm (Was Summer quarterly project)

[Dave F]

Hi
Off on a slight tangent.

There's been an increase (world wide) in the use of place=farm. If you 
fill out the boxes on this site you'll see: http://taghistory.raifer.tech/

Over 19k are in GB: http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/tags/place=farm

The reason for the increase could be it being displayed in the OSM carto 
rendering

Just one example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4364588497

I believe many, if not all, are misinterpretations & should be 
landuse=farmyard.
The wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Farm says "a place named by 
a name of a farm"
To me, that means a collection of houses not associated with the farm 
being collectively given the name of that farm, so in effect, a hamlet 
has been named, say, Manor Farm.


Is that a common occurrence? I know of no such in my locale.

Dave F.

On 11/09/2016 18:45, Brian Prangle wrote:


Today saw us pass the 1,000 total for farmyards added during this 
project(1008 to be precise).


Well done to everyone who has participated. What has been the most 
unusual farm name anyone has come across?


Only a couple of weeks left - time to start thinking about our next 
quarterly project, while we see how many more farmyards we can add.


Regards

Brian



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