Re: [OSM-legal-talk] A case for CT + CC-BY-SA

2011-07-27 Per discussione Tobias Knerr
Richard Fairhurst wrote:
 Tordanik wrote:
 I see that the ODbL fits your particular use case nicely. But as 
 you acknowledge, things look different for people with other 
 use cases. I expect that I'm one of those people whose favourite 
 use cases won't benefit from ODbL - quite the opposite, in fact.
 
 I can certainly see your issues. But I think that this is what Steve was
 talking about in the SOTM-EU keynote when he said let's move to ODbL and
 sort out the details in v2.

And why the hurry? It seems premature to consider discontinuing CC-BY-SA
database publication while there are still major problems with the
suggested replacement.

 None of what you've highlighted is insuperable.

I did mention some exclusive benefits of CC-BY-SA in my original mail,
such as the popularity of the license that is impossible to match for
ODbL, and the relative complexity compared with ODbL. Both are
consequences of the very idea of ODbL (a license specifically for
databases, using various legal constructs in addition to copyright for
enforcing its requirements), and cannot be fixed completely.

But even to address my immediate concerns, several concessions would
need to be included in the community guidelines, for example that

* software which is freely available (at no cost, without
discrimination) can be considered a given by the method description
* databases which are available under an ODbL-compatible license can
also be considered a given by the method description
* publication of a produced work can be continued indefinitely even if
the means (software/databases) to reproduce the derivative database
cease to be publicly available
* informal descriptions can be sufficient in straightforward cases, such
as referring to an unmodified program with obvious configuration by its
name only.

The goal of all this would be to let the creator of a produced work get
away with an one-line attribution text similar to CC-BY-SA's in those
cases where all software and data used in the process is publicly
available anyway.

Of course, giving the creator the option to choose CC-BY-SA would
instantly achieve this goal. ;)

 So I wouldn't advocate CC-BY-SA or ODbL for the project; I think ODbL is a
 better way of providing share-alike. But personally, I'd not be upset if we
 ended up with dual-licensing, because it's slightly closer to public domain.

Thank you for clarifying this, I was a bit confused about your position
before.

-- Tobias Knerr

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] A case for CT + CC-BY-SA

2011-07-27 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 27/07/11 16:43, Tobias Knerr wrote:
 
 And why the hurry?

If this is a hurry I'd hate to see stalling. :-)

- Rob.



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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Kev js1982
If we are using pronunciations as a guide shall I go and rename Southwell
as Suval and Leicester as Lesta?

On Wednesday, 27 July 2011, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 27 July 2011 04:04, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 27 July 2011 10:40, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:
 Yes, it is called Saint Albans, written St Albans, except where some
 websites seem to have expanded it.

 e.g.
 http://www.meteoprog.co.uk/en/weather/SaintAlbans/
 http://www.gomapper.com/travel/map-of/saint-albans.html
 etc...
 http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=%22saint+albans%22

 I personally would be tempted to store the name tag in expanded form
 so it is clear what the St abbreviation applies to (I've seen things
 like S St N on Google where they've abbreviated South Street North,
 for example, which just looks silly). This seems to agree with
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Notes


 Um - no.  If a place wants to be written St Albans, then that's the
 name. Just because you pronounce it Saint Albans makes no
 difference.

 I'd say the opposite is true.  If it's pronounced Saint Albans then
 that is the name.  The local administration may want to spell it
 however they like and make one way or the other official, but we don't
 care, in the end it's always a product of how people are and have been
 calling the place.  Place names have often been abbreviated in writing
 because there was never any need for consistency across countries and
 continents, much less for machine-readability.  In OSM there is this
 need.

 Cheers

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[OSM-talk] querying the postgis db

2011-07-27 Per discussione Kenneth Gonsalves
hi,

I know that this sounds a bit of a dumb question:

I have installed osm data in a postgis db, and would like to get a list
of all localities within a particular city - can anyone give a hint on
the sql required for this?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves


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[OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione Kenneth Gonsalves
hi,

on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as:

lat 145921624 lon 864071554

but the map shows the correct figures:

lat 12.9954832  lon 77.6208684

can anyone explain this?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves


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[OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione kenneth gonsalves
hi,

on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as:

lat 145921624 lon 864071554

but the map shows the correct figures:

lat 12.9954832  lon 77.6208684

can anyone explain this?
-- 
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves



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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione Tom Hughes

On 27/07/11 09:08, kenneth gonsalves wrote:


on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as:


The db. Which db would that be exactly? Presumably one you have created 
somehow from planet, but how exactly did you create it?



lat 145921624 lon 864071554

but the map shows the correct figures:

lat 12.9954832  lon 77.6208684

can anyone explain this?


Well I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess that you have 
used osm2pgsql to load a postgis database, and that you asked it to 
create the database in the spherical mercator projection.


In which case those numbers are coordinates (in meters from the corner) 
on a plane which has been projected using the spherical mercator projection.


So you need to reverse that projection and project back to EPSG 4326 if 
you want lat/lon - there are postgis functions to do that.


Of course if your primary aim is to get lat/lon out of the database then 
you'd be better off reloading it and telling osm2pgsql not to project 
the data to spherical mercator.


Tom

--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Steve Doerr

On 27/07/2011 03:04, Stephen Hope wrote:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Notes

Um - no.  If a place wants to be written St Albans, then that's the
name. Just because you pronounce it Saint Albans makes no
difference.

If they'd just shortened it for some signs to save space (like street,
road etc), then I'd agree with you.  But if they want the proper name
to be St Albans, not Saint Albans, we should respect that. If it is
how the name is officially spelt, then it's not an abbreviation, even
if it looks and sounds like one.



I personally prefer 'St' over 'Saint', but I wouldn't go so far as to 
assert what Stephen Hope does. After all, in alphabetical lists, names 
beginning 'St' have traditionally been sorted as if they were written 
'Saint'.


--
Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] Detecting deleted data?

2011-07-27 Per discussione Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 3:28 PM, André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com wrote:
 You can use the OWL-Map (OpenStreetMap Watchlist). It shows all
 changes in a given area.

Thanks both. Looks like the problem is some faulty memory.

Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Thomas Davie

On 27 Jul 2011, at 10:15, Steve Doerr wrote:

 On 27/07/2011 03:04, Stephen Hope wrote:
 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Notes
 
 Um - no.  If a place wants to be written St Albans, then that's the
 name. Just because you pronounce it Saint Albans makes no
 difference.
 
 If they'd just shortened it for some signs to save space (like street,
 road etc), then I'd agree with you.  But if they want the proper name
 to be St Albans, not Saint Albans, we should respect that. If it is
 how the name is officially spelt, then it's not an abbreviation, even
 if it looks and sounds like one.
 
 
 I personally prefer 'St' over 'Saint', but I wouldn't go so far as to assert 
 what Stephen Hope does. After all, in alphabetical lists, names beginning 
 'St' have traditionally been sorted as if they were written 'Saint'.

I don't think how they're sorted has anything to do with it, if every time the 
place name is written, it's written St Albans, even in official documentation 
of what the town is called, it's name is St Albans, simple as that.


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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Robin Paulson
On 27 July 2011 12:40, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:
 like S St N on Google where they've abbreviated South Street North,
 for example, which just looks silly). This seems to agree with
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name#Notes

ha, there's a road near me labelled on sign posts as:
Grt Sth Rd

which must be so easy to interpret for all the none-native english speakers

-- 
robin

http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic
human rights in NZ

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
andrzej zaborowski wrote:
 I'd say the opposite is true.  If it's pronounced Saint Albans 
 then that is the name.

Pronunciation in English only ever serves to mislead. :)

Increasingly you can treat St as a valid spelling of the word saint,
rather than merely an abbreviation. No (educated) native English speaker
would write a placename with 'Saint', and every native English speaker would
pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty conclusive
argument that we should tag St.

(I'm only talking about the UK, of course, and in fact this discussion would
be better on talk-gb.)

cheers
Richard



--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/shortened-names-tp6556816p6625525.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione John Smith
On 27 July 2011 20:01, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
 (I'm only talking about the UK, of course, and in fact this discussion would
 be better on talk-gb.)

The person that started this thread is in New Zealand...

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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione Jorge Gustavo

Hi Kenneth,

As Tom already said, you probably used osm2pgsql and those coordinates 
are in the SRID EPSG:900913. You can/should confirm it by quering the 
geometry_columns table. osm2pgsql fills the table automatically.


You should see something like:

320028;'';public;planet_osm_line;way;2;900913;LINESTRING
320017;'';public;planet_osm_point;way;2;900913;POINT
320039;'';public;planet_osm_polygon;way;2;900913;GEOMETRY
320049;'';public;planet_osm_roads;way;2;900913;LINESTRING

In PostGIS, you can change coordinates doing st_transform.
Example:
Select astext(ST_transform(st_geometryfromtext('POINT(864071554 
145921624)',900913),4326));


Regards,

Jorge

On 27-07-2011 09:08, kenneth gonsalves wrote:

hi,

on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as:

lat 145921624 lon 864071554

but the map shows the correct figures:

lat 12.9954832  lon 77.6208684

can anyone explain this?



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Re: [OSM-talk] Pyroute

2011-07-27 Per discussione Luis Quesada
(Sorry! I meant to send this to the list)

On Tue, July 26, 2011 5:27 pm, Luis Quesada wrote:
 On 23/07/11 23:45, Łukasz Stelmach wrote:
 Luis Quesadal.ques...@4c.ucc.ie  writes:

 I am having the error listed at the end when trying to run python gui.py
File /home/lquesada/pyroute/tiles.py, line 98, in loadImage
  self.images[name]  = cairo.ImageSurface.create_from_png(filename)
 MemoryError
 Hard to tell. My first *guess* is that there is something wrong with
 Cairo bindings for Python[1] or with the Cairo itself.


 Footnotes:
 [1] http://cairographics.org/pycairo/

 Dear Łukasz,

 Thank you very much for your answer. I installed the latest versions of
 both pycairo and cairo. It seems they are both fine:

   import cairo
   cairo.cairo_version_string()
 '1.10.2'
   cairo.version
 '1.8.8'

 Cheers,
 Luis



-- 
Luis Quesada
Research Scientist
Cork Constraint Computation Centre
University College Cork
Cork - Ireland
Phone:  (+353) 21 420 5376
Fax:(+353) 21 420 5369
Web:http://4c.ucc.ie/~lquesada

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione David Earl

On 27/07/2011 10:23, Thomas Davie wrote:

I don't think how they're sorted has anything to do with it, if every
time the place name is written, it's written St Albans, even in
official documentation of what the town is called, it's name is St
Albans, simple as that.


+1.

And the same applies to street names with S(ain)t too. For example St 
Albans Road, Cambridge. Interestingly, nominatim comes up with two such 
roads, one in Cambridge, UK and one in Boston, MA (well done Nominatim 
for getting St vs Saint right btw), and the one in Boston is spelled out 
in full on OSM. However, if you look at Streetview, you can see the 
street sign is St Albans Rd and Google maps has it as St Albans Rd 
(but then they shorten everything on the maps), but their Gazetteer - 
what you see when you are located in Streetview as the location you're 
viewing has Saint in full.


I think there is a subtle difference between abbreviations (like Rd and 
St - for Street that is) and contractions, like St for Saint and Dr for 
Doctor (not Drive). Generally abbreviations are just saving space, while 
contractions have become like words in their own right.


David


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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
John Smith wrote:
 The person that started this thread is in New Zealand...

...and started it with the comment does anyone here know what st albans
in uk is actually called then?. Robin has also mapped parts of Britain -
such as Repton, not far from where I'm sitting now.

Richard




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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione David Earl
In just doing some web searching, I came across this UK Government 
document...


http://www.pcgn.org.uk/UK%20Toponymic%20Guidelines.pdf

which has lots of references to OS lists of standards and conventions.

While St Albans isn't big enough to feature in the list in this 
document, it does have St. Helens (sic). Why the period? The district 
council's website http://www.sthelens.gov.uk/ also has it with a period 
(St Albans, http://www.stalbans.gov.uk/ , does not).


OSM has it as Saint Helens, which is arguably wrong.

We also have St Davids as St David's which I think is also probably 
wrong (certainly not how their gov.uk website has it) even before 
getting into the English/Welsh debate.


We all seem to agree on St Austell (Cornwall), Ottery St Mary, Chalfont 
St Peter.


Here is one of the more challenging areas in the UK in this respect: 
http://osm.org/go/0ERdlvp--


David


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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione John Smith
On 27 July 2011 20:50, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
 While St Albans isn't big enough to feature in the list in this document, it
 does have St. Helens (sic). Why the period? The district council's website

The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.

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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione kenneth gonsalves
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 11:04 +0100, Jorge Gustavo wrote:
 As Tom already said, you probably used osm2pgsql and those
 coordinates 
 are in the SRID EPSG:900913. You can/should confirm it by quering the 
 geometry_columns table. osm2pgsql fills the table automatically.

that's right

...

 In PostGIS, you can change coordinates doing st_transform.
 Example:
 Select astext(ST_transform(st_geometryfromtext('POINT(864071554 
 145921624)',900913),4326)); 

I would prefer to reload in ESPG 4326, but on doing:
./osm2pgsql -S ./default.style -E EPSG:4326 ./bang.osm

I get this error:
Projection code failed to initialise

any clues?


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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 07/27/11 13:04, kenneth gonsalves wrote:

I would prefer to reload in ESPG 4326, but on doing:
./osm2pgsql -S ./default.style -E EPSG:4326 ./bang.osm

I get this error:
Projection code failed to initialise


Use -l (ell) instead of -E EPSG:4326.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione David Earl

On 27/07/2011 11:58, John Smith wrote:

On 27 July 2011 20:50, David Earlda...@frankieandshadow.com  wrote:

While St Albans isn't big enough to feature in the list in this document, it
does have St. Helens (sic). Why the period? The district council's website


The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.


Hmm. OK, then reverse the question. Why do so many places including St 
Albans not use the a period? Could it be as Richard and I were saying 
that St is now an accepted spelling of the word which means a beatified 
person rather than being just an abbreviation. Like laser and arguably 
email are words now.


David


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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Paul Jaggard
 From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
 The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
 Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.

Exactly the opposite according to my (Collins) dictionary:

st abbrev. for short ton.
St abbrev. for Saint.
st. abbrev. for stanza, statute, (cricket) stumped by
St. abbrev. for statute, Strait, Street
Sta abbrev. for Saint (female).

Paul.


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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione kenneth gonsalves
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 13:11 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 On 07/27/11 13:04, kenneth gonsalves wrote:
  I would prefer to reload in ESPG 4326, but on doing:
  ./osm2pgsql -S ./default.style -E EPSG:4326 ./bang.osm
 
  I get this error:
  Projection code failed to initialise
 
 Use -l (ell) instead of -E EPSG:4326. 

same error - maybe I need to install something.


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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Kay Drangmeister

Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote:

ha, there's a road near me labelled on sign posts as:
Grt Sth Rd
which must be so easy to interpret for all the none-native english speakers


Would Grout Something Rapid count as an educated guess?
Let's face it: its the authorities' idea of 1337-Speak...

Kay

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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione kenneth gonsalves
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 16:58 +0530, kenneth gonsalves wrote:
  
  Use -l (ell) instead of -E EPSG:4326. 
 
 same error - maybe I need to install something. 

done -  yum install proj-epsg. Thanks everyone.


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Re: [OSM-talk] querying the postgis db

2011-07-27 Per discussione Richard Weait
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 2:09 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@gmail.com wrote:
 hi,

 I know that this sounds a bit of a dumb question:

 I have installed osm data in a postgis db, and would like to get a list
 of all localities within a particular city - can anyone give a hint on
 the sql required for this?

Here's a hint. ;-)

Find locality points inside any Toronto polygon (includes Toronto,
Iowa (Ohio, NSW AU, etc)

gis=# select p.name from planet_osm_point p, planet_osm_polygon g
where p.place='locality' AND ST_Within(p.way,g.way) AND
g.name='Toronto';

 name
--
 Birchmount Park
 Wexford Heights
 Clairlea
 Clarks Corners
 Woodbine Gardens
 Steeles
 Parkway East
 Bayview Village
 Lansing
 North York
 Westmount
 St. Phillips
 Rouge Hill
 Rouge Park
 Kennedy Park
 York Height
 Hillcrest Village
 Willowdale
 York
 Richview Gardens
 Pine Point
 Kingsview Village
 Martin Grove Gardens
 Beaumonde Heights
 Highfield
(25 rows)

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione David Earl

On 27/07/2011 12:21, Paul Jaggard wrote:

From: John Smithdeltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.


Exactly the opposite according to my (Collins) dictionary:

st abbrev. for short ton.
St abbrev. for Saint.
st. abbrev. for stanza, statute, (cricket) stumped by
St. abbrev. for statute, Strait, Street
Sta abbrev. for Saint (female).


According to the full OED, John is right if you look under 'saint':

Commonly abbreviated S. or St. ... Abbreviations: S. and St., pl. SS. 
and Sts. Since the 18th c. ‘St.’ is the form usually employed; but since 
about 1830 ‘S.’ has been favoured by ecclesiologists. In place-names, 
and in family names derived from these, only ‘St.’ is used [clearly not 
true!].


But then if you look under 'st' (no period), it says (with cap.) for 
saint adj. and n. prefixed to a name.


The Guardian Style Guide (http://www.guardian.co.uk/styleguide/s ), 
which tends to go for more modern usage in general, says: Saint - in 
running text should be spelt in full: Saint John, Saint Paul. For names 
of towns, churches, etc, abbreviate St (no point) eg St Mirren, St 
Stephen's church. In French placenames a hyphen is needed, eg 
St-Nazaire, Ste-Suzanne, Stes-Maries-de-la-Mer.


The Telegraph style guide 
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/style-book/1435325/Telegraph-style-book-Ss.html 
) agrees: Saint: Abbreviated to St (no point); plural is SS (SS Peter 
and Paul). (See Places and Peoples).


David


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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione John Smith
On 27 July 2011 21:21, Paul Jaggard p...@jaggard.net wrote:
 From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com
 The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
 Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.

 Exactly the opposite according to my (Collins) dictionary:

 st abbrev. for short ton.
 St abbrev. for Saint.
 st. abbrev. for stanza, statute, (cricket) stumped by
 St. abbrev. for statute, Strait, Street
 Sta abbrev. for Saint (female).

Isn't the first reference I was pointed to when this came up some time ago
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/St.

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione John Smith
On 27 July 2011 21:48, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
 Commonly abbreviated S. or St. ... Abbreviations: S. and St., pl. SS. and
 Sts. Since the 18th c. ‘St.’ is the form usually employed; but since about
 1830 ‘S.’ has been favoured by ecclesiologists. In place-names, and in
 family names derived from these, only ‘St.’ is used [clearly not true!].

The other practice is dropping punctuation marks from signs...

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
John Smith wrote:
 The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
 Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.

Not in British English, it isn't.

_Saint._ St or S. is better than St. for the abbreviation (see PERIOD IN
ABBR.); Pl. Sts or SS.

That's from Fowler's Modern English Usage, which is as close as there is to
an authority in British English style.

Richard



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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione John Smith
On 27 July 2011 22:00, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
 John Smith wrote:
 The period after St. is the correct way in English to abbreviate
 Saint, where as the abbreviation of street doesn't have a period.

 Not in British English, it isn't.

 _Saint._ St or S. is better than St. for the abbreviation (see PERIOD IN
 ABBR.); Pl. Sts or SS.

 That's from Fowler's Modern English Usage, which is as close as there is to
 an authority in British English style.

It seems 50/50, although even your reference basically says it's an
acceptable practice, even if that publisher had a style preference
that was different.

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 27 July 2011 12:01, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
 Increasingly you can treat St as a valid spelling of the word saint,
 rather than merely an abbreviation. No (educated) native English speaker
 would write a placename with 'Saint', and every native English speaker would
 pronunce St in that context as 'saint'.

Still only if provided with enough context to correctly guess which of
the words spelt St it is.  This isn't the most complicated case, you
only need to process about one word ahead as context (or in this case
perhaps just knowing it's at the start of the name), but for many
tasks it would be great to eliminate the guessing.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Steve Doerr
It probably doesn't affect the argument, but 'The Place-names of 
Hertfordshire' (English Place-name Society, 1938) records the following 
historical forms:


(aet) Sancte Albane (957)
Sancte Albanes stow (1007)
la ville de Seint Alban (Norman-French)
villa Sancti Albani (Domesday Book - in Latin)
villa de Sancto Albano (medieval, Latin)
le Covent de Seynt Alban (1302)
la dite ville de Seint Alban (time of Edward II)
la ville de Seint Auban (time of Edward III)
Seint Auban (1400)
Seynt Albones (1421)

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Steve Doerr

On 27/07/2011 11:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Pronunciation in English only ever serves to mislead.

[...]

every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as 'saint'.


Actually, /St/ and /saint/ are pronounced rather differently (*sn?t* and 
*se?nt*, respectively).


--
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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione kenneth gonsalves
On Wed, 2011-07-27 at 13:51 +0100, Steve Doerr wrote:
 On 27/07/2011 11:01, Richard Fairhurst wrote: 
  Pronunciation in English only ever serves to mislead.
 [...]
  every native English speaker would pronunce St in that context as
  'saint'.
 
 Actually, St and saint are pronounced rather differently (sn̩t and
 seɪnt, respectively). 

a round at snandrews?


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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione John F. Eldredge
andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 27 July 2011 12:01, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
  Increasingly you can treat St as a valid spelling of the word
 saint,
  rather than merely an abbreviation. No (educated) native English
 speaker
  would write a placename with 'Saint', and every native English
 speaker would
  pronunce St in that context as 'saint'.
 
 Still only if provided with enough context to correctly guess which of
 the words spelt St it is.  This isn't the most complicated case, you
 only need to process about one word ahead as context (or in this case
 perhaps just knowing it's at the start of the name), but for many
 tasks it would be great to eliminate the guessing.
 
 Cheers
 
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That is the reason I feel that it would be best to store the fully-spelled-out 
name, and then apply localized rules to look up any abbreviations needed at 
rendering time.   Using the full form to determine the abbreviation is much 
less ambiguous than the other way around.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com
Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to 
think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione David Earl

On 27/07/2011 14:38, John F. Eldredge wrote:

That is the reason I feel that it would be best to store the
fully-spelled-out name, and then apply localized rules to look up any
abbreviations needed at rendering time.   Using the full form to
determine the abbreviation is much less ambiguous than the other way
around.


But the point several of us have been making is that this has moved 
beyond being an abbreviation to being the proper spelling of the name.


Absolutely Example Road not Example Rd, but St Albans really is 
called that (now), not Saint Albans.


David


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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione Parveen Arora
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@gmail.com wrote:
 hi,

 on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as:

 lat 145921624 lon 864071554
I was having the same problem, when I have implemented search in my
map tile server.
Actually these are not the latitudes longitudes, I think these are the
x and y co-ordinates.
And these need to be converted on latitude and longitude for using it.



 but the map shows the correct figures:

 lat 12.9954832  lon 77.6208684

 can anyone explain this?
I have also made the function too convert x,y co-ordinates into lat.
long., but unfortunately I have lost that data.
But I will try to find that and will reply here back If found.


Hope it will help you.


-- 
Parveen Arora
www.parveenarora.in
E-Mail: m...@parveenarora.in

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Re: [OSM-talk] lat and lon in the db

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/7/27 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@gmail.com:
 on querying the db, I get the lat and lon of a particular place as:
 lat 145921624 lon 864071554

 but the map shows the correct figures:
 lat 12.9954832  lon 77.6208684


I guess these coordinates are the same, the first are the coordinates
in your projection the latter in latlong.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/7/27 Kay Drangmeister k...@drangmeister.net:
 Am 27.07.2011, 12:01 Uhr, schrieb Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net:

 every native English speaker would
 pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty
 conclusive
 argument that we should tag St.

 Alas, and in German St abbreviates Sankt (which also means by chance
 Saint).
 So you can conclusively say for each place if it's the english or the german
 Abbreviation? Not to mention other countries with multiple languages.


In Italian S. can mean San, Sant' and Santa, Ss. can mean
Santi and Santissimo/Santissima/Santissimi/Santissime
because you have to care for gender, grammatical number and if the
name starts with a vowel. I guess dealing automatically with this is
not completely impossible but it certainly requires some effort (not
to mention if you wanted to apply different rules for all languages
that occur in the planet).

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
...but the point is that here the name seems to be St Albans so why
should we be the only ones to expand it?

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Steve Doerr

On 27/07/2011 18:23, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

...but the point is that here the name seems to be St Albans so why
should we be the only ones to expand it?



So that satnavs can more easily work out how to pronounce it?

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Joseph Reeves
But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't
pronounce st as saint I'd blame the software, not the data.

On 27 Jul 2011 20:38, Steve Doerr doerr.step...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 27/07/2011 18:23, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
 ...but the point is that here the name seems to be St Albans so why
 should we be the only ones to expand it?


 So that satnavs can more easily work out how to pronounce it?

 --
 Steve

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

Joseph Reeves wrote:
But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav 
can't pronounce st as saint I'd blame the software, not the data.


Yup... nothing against a special tag for a pronounciation hint though. 
Phonetic alphabet, anyone?


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Kay Drangmeister

Am 27.07.2011 19:22, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer:

Am 27.07.2011, 12:01 Uhr, schrieb Richard Fairhurstrich...@systemed.net:


every native English speaker would
pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty
conclusive
argument that we should tag St.


In Italian S. can mean San, Sant' and Santa, Ss. can mean
Santi and Santissimo/Santissima/Santissimi/Santissime
because you have to care for gender, grammatical number and if the
name starts with a vowel. I guess dealing automatically with this is
not completely impossible but it certainly requires some effort (not
to mention if you wanted to apply different rules for all languages
that occur in the planet).


That, to me, is a convincing argument to tag the unabbreviated form
and let software (easily) do the abbreviation, instead of tagging
the abbreviation and have software do the (next to impossible) task
to un-abbreviate.

I cannot concur with Richards argument of native speakers in that
case. Native speakers (read: humans) have context knowledge that
our software (in the forseeable future) just does not have, and we
want (humans AND) software to deal with our data, don't we?

Cheers,
Kay

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Richard Mann
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Kay Drangmeister k...@drangmeister.net 
wrote:
 Am 27.07.2011 19:22, schrieb M∡rtin Koppenhoefer:

 Am 27.07.2011, 12:01 Uhr, schrieb Richard
 Fairhurstrich...@systemed.net:

 every native English speaker would
 pronunce St in that context as 'saint'. That, to me, is a pretty
 conclusive
 argument that we should tag St.

 In Italian S. can mean San, Sant' and Santa, Ss. can mean
 Santi and Santissimo/Santissima/Santissimi/Santissime
 because you have to care for gender, grammatical number and if the
 name starts with a vowel. I guess dealing automatically with this is
 not completely impossible but it certainly requires some effort (not
 to mention if you wanted to apply different rules for all languages
 that occur in the planet).

 That, to me, is a convincing argument to tag the unabbreviated form
 and let software (easily) do the abbreviation, instead of tagging
 the abbreviation and have software do the (next to impossible) task
 to un-abbreviate.

name is what is on (the majority of) the signs

Anything else belongs in a different tag (long_name, full_name,
pedants_name, whatever)

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/7/28 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com:
 name is what is on (the majority of) the signs


name is the name. Or what would be the name if the sign-majority was
defined and there were 2 differing signs? nil? Or if there was 1 sign
and that was spellt wrong? Signs are indices, but they contain errors
and bugs like everything else.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Ian
On Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:04:13 PM UTC-5, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't 
 pronounce st as saint I'd blame the software, not the data.

Should the satnav pronounce st. as saint or street?
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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Robin Paulson
On 28 July 2011 10:45, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 2011/7/28 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com:
 name is what is on (the majority of) the signs


 name is the name. Or what would be the name if the sign-majority was
 defined and there were 2 differing signs? nil? Or if there was 1 sign
 and that was spellt wrong? Signs are indices, but they contain errors
 and bugs like everything else.

the sign (and a map, including OSM) is an attempt to quantify and
record the social reality of the name of the street

as social reality depends upon the observer, there are potentially
lots of answers to how we write the name. which is how we end up with
'do what you, a local, think is appropriate' - also known as 'ground
truth'

trying to find a definitive 'correct' answer is thus by definition
impossible and likely to end in dispute (or at least a very long mail
thread with no resolution...)

and yeah, i come from England, live in NZ, so map both Derbyshire and Auckland

-- 
robin

http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic
human rights in NZ

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Joseph Reeves
It's all about the placement:

St Albans pronounced Saint Albans
Albans St pronounced Albans Street

Look at this road: http://osm.org/go/eutDvk@QV-

Should we tag it:

name: Magdalen Road
pronounced: More-da-lin Road

?

That's ridiculous if you ask me. If you're making sat nav software for a
market (the UK, France, America, etc.) you should be able to work out these
things yourself.

Cheers, Joseph





On 28 July 2011 00:55, Ian ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wednesday, July 27, 2011 3:04:13 PM UTC-5, Joseph Reeves wrote:

 But that's just tagging for the renderer (or reader). If my sat nav can't
 pronounce st as saint I'd blame the software, not the data.

 Should the satnav pronounce st. as saint or street?

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Re: [OSM-talk] shortened names

2011-07-27 Per discussione Robin Paulson
On 28 July 2011 12:06, Joseph Reeves iknowjos...@gmail.com wrote:
 name: Magdalen Road
 pronounced: More-da-lin Road

 ?

 That's ridiculous if you ask me. If you're making sat nav software for a
 market (the UK, France, America, etc.) you should be able to work out these
 things yourself.

why?

in that instance, there are a lot of people in england who would
pronounce that 'wrongly'.

although as i said earlier, this is all socially constructed - there's
no correct answer, and i'm not sure we should encourage that there is.

-- 
robin

http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic
human rights in NZ

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[Talk-is] Hjólavefsjá.is lénið rennur út 16. ágúst

2011-07-27 Per discussione Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
Á ekki Reykjavíkurborg að vera halda þessu við?

$ parallel -k 'whois {} | grep expire' ::: hjolavefsja.is
xn--hjlavefsj-81a4q.is
expires:  August 16 2011
expires:  August 16 2011

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Re: [Talk-is] Hjólavefsjá.is lénið rennur út 16. ágúst

2011-07-27 Per discussione Svavar Kjarrval
Ég greiði árgjaldið fyrir mín lén á eindaga og mig grunar að
Reykjavíkurborg geri það líka ef þeir ætla að greiða þau.

Með kveðju,
Svavar Kjarrval

On 27/07/11 08:51, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote:
 Á ekki Reykjavíkurborg að vera halda þessu við?
 
 $ parallel -k 'whois {} | grep expire' ::: hjolavefsja.is
 xn--hjlavefsj-81a4q.is
 expires:  August 16 2011
 expires:  August 16 2011
 
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Re: [Talk-de] Naturschutzgebiet

2011-07-27 Per discussione Karl Eichwalder
Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@googlemail.com writes:

 § 23 Abs. 2 Satz 2 BNatSchG geht also davon aus, dass ein Betreten des
 Naturschutzgebietes grundsätzlich verboten ist (access=no) und ein
 Betreten explizit erlaubt werden muss.

Das ist deine interpretation.  Wenn da nicht drinsteht, dass das
betreten grundsätzlich verboten ist, dann ist es auch nicht
grundsätzlich verboten.

Das ist ungefähr so wie mit den straßenbegleitenden blauen radwegen (nur
anders): die sind benutzungspflichtig, aber deswegen ist es noch lange
nicht verboten, auf der straße mit dem rad zu fahren.

 Also Für Deutschland heißt das für Naturschutzgebiet: Grundsätzlich
 ein access=no an Wege im Naturschutzgebiet. Außer
 1. in Schleswig-Holstein und 2. wenn sich aus der
 Naturschutzgebietsverordnung etwas anderes ergibt.

An die wege gehört so etwas schomal gar nicht, weil wie gesagt, es steht
dort nicht an den wegen.  Allerfalls könntest du so etwas an die
fläche (area) des naturschutzgebiets tun.

-- 
Karl Eichwalder  SUSE LINUX Products GmbH
RD / Documentation  Maxfeldstraße 5
 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)

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Re: [Talk-de] Naturschutzgebiet

2011-07-27 Per discussione Falk Zscheile
Am 27. Juli 2011 08:43 schrieb Karl Eichwalder k...@gnu.franken.de:
 Falk Zscheile falk.zsche...@googlemail.com writes:

 § 23 Abs. 2 Satz 2 BNatSchG geht also davon aus, dass ein Betreten des
 Naturschutzgebietes grundsätzlich verboten ist (access=no) und ein
 Betreten explizit erlaubt werden muss.

 Das ist deine interpretation.
Natürlich.

 Wenn da nicht drinsteht, dass das
 betreten grundsätzlich verboten ist, dann ist es auch nicht
 grundsätzlich verboten.

Ich glaube Du hast eine etwas vereinfachte Vorstellung vom Recht. Der
Spruch vor Gericht und auf hoher See liegt alles in Gottes Hand,
resultiert sicher nicht aus der Erfahrung, dass alles
allgemeinverständlich im Gesetz geregelt ist. Du wärst nicht der
Erste, der von einem Gericht gesagt bekommen würde, was da alles im
Gesetz steht. :-)

Aber ich denke an diesem Punkt kommen wir nicht weiter, falls sich
nicht einer in die Bibliothek auf macht und nachliest, wie es
gemeinhin interpretiert wird.


 Das ist ungefähr so wie mit den straßenbegleitenden blauen radwegen (nur
 anders): die sind benutzungspflichtig, aber deswegen ist es noch lange
 nicht verboten, auf der straße mit dem rad zu fahren.

Diese Diskussion gehört nicht hier hin, obwohl wir sie hier schon mal
hatten. Wenn Du Lust und Zeit hast könne wir sie aber gern privat oder
im Fahrradforum weiter führen.

 Also Für Deutschland heißt das für Naturschutzgebiet: Grundsätzlich
 ein access=no an Wege im Naturschutzgebiet. Außer
 1. in Schleswig-Holstein und 2. wenn sich aus der
 Naturschutzgebietsverordnung etwas anderes ergibt.

 An die wege gehört so etwas schomal gar nicht, weil wie gesagt, es steht
 dort nicht an den wegen.  Allerfalls könntest du so etwas an die
 fläche (area) des naturschutzgebiets tun.


Es muss nicht an den Wegen stehen. Es reicht wenn es im Gesetz steht.
Du kennst den Spruch „Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht? Das Gilt
vor deutschen Gerichten (im wesentlichen) bis heute. Auch ein
bestelltes Weizenfeld darfst du nicht betreten, auch wenn da kein
Schild steht Betreten Verboten! Das ergibt sich nicht nur aus dem
gesunden Menschenverstand, sondern auch aus der gesetzlichen
Ausgestaltung des Rechts zum Betreten der freien Landschaft.

Meiner Meinung nach gehört das access=no an die Grenze des
Naturschutzgebietes und an den Weg bzw. gehört ein access=yes an den
Weg, wenn die Naturschutzgebietsverordnung oder das (Landes-)Recht den
Zugang erlauben. Da wir hier über nationale Regelungen sprechen
sollten die Zugangsrechte auf jeden Fall ausdrücklich vermerkt werden,
weil es von verschiedenen Rechtsordnungen unterschiedlich normiert
werden kann.

Gruß, Falk

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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: gibt es ein Werkzeug - Flächen zu prüfen

2011-07-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hallo,

On 07/27/11 12:39, Jan Tappenbeck wrote:

Gibt es in JOSM eigentlich ein Werkzeug dieses auf Korrektheit zu prüfen
- z.b. Doppelte node - Probleme in der Schließung. Direktes aufrufen
einer Prüffunktion ist so mein Ziel.


Es gibt ja den OSM Inspector, der solche Sachen kann. Den OSM Inspector 
kann man grundsaetzlich auch als JOSM-Hintergrund (WMS) einbinden. Wie 
das geht, ist hier beschrieben:


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Inspector/WxS

Allerdings ist das nicht ganz das, was Du gern haettest, denn der 
Inspector wird nur einmal am Tag aktualisiert, und Du kannst dadurch 
natuerlich nicht sofort sehen, ob eine Aenderung, die Du gerade gemacht 
hast, den Fehler behebt.


Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: gibt es ein Werkzeug - Flächen zu prüfen

2011-07-27 Per discussione Chris66
Am 27.07.2011 12:39, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck:

 ich habe eine Fläche die vermutlich irgendwo in der Geometrie nicht stimmt:
 
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=123205144
 
 Gibt es in JOSM eigentlich ein Werkzeug dieses auf Korrektheit zu prüfen

Ja, nennt sich Validator.

Du solttest Dir die rechte Ecke des Farmlands mal angucken.

Chris


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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: gibt es ein Werkzeug - Flächen zu prüfen

2011-07-27 Per discussione Georg Feddern

Moin Jan,

Jan Tappenbeck schrieb:

Am 27.07.2011 13:22, schrieb Chris66:

Am 27.07.2011 12:39, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck:



http://www.openstreetmap.org/?way=123205144


Ja, nennt sich Validator.

Du solttest Dir die rechte Ecke des Farmlands mal angucken.

Chris


wenn ich nur das Element lade und die Prüfung im Validator aufrufe 
blinkt dieser einmal auf und das war es - keine Meldung im Fester!


Die Fläche macht einen geschlossenen Eindruck und auch sonst fällt mir 
nichts auf !


dafür gibt es doch die History

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/123205144/history

damit man solche Verfehlungen  ;-) auch nachträglich noch 
nachvollziehen kann.


Gruß
Georg

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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: gibt es ein Werkzeug - Flächen zu prüfen

2011-07-27 Per discussione fx99
sieht für mich auch gut aus.
Hab den Weg mal in ein MP reingepackt, auch da heißt es geschlossen!

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[Talk-de] Welche MaxHeight wird angegeben ?

2011-07-27 Per discussione Jan Tappenbeck



 hi !

wenn man eine Bogendurchfahrt hat, dann ist am Rand die Durchfahrtshöhe 
anders als in der Mitte (idr).


Wie würdet Ihr dieses bei maxheight anschreiben ?

Gruß Jan :-)


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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: gibt es ein Werkzeug - Flächen zu prüfen

2011-07-27 Per discussione Chris66
Am 27.07.2011 14:02, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck:

 wenn ich nur das Element lade und die Prüfung im Validator aufrufe
 blinkt dieser einmal auf und das war es - keine Meldung im Fester!

Komisch, bei mir hat er gesagt: Nicht geschlossener Flächentyp.

 Die Fläche macht einen geschlossenen Eindruck und auch sonst fällt mir
 nichts auf !

Zwischenzeitlich hat es ein netter Zeitgenosse repariert und Mapnik
malt das Gebiet schon fleißig braun.

Chris


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Re: [Talk-de] Welche MaxHeight wird angegeben ?

2011-07-27 Per discussione RalfGesellensetter
Hallo,

physikalisch korrekt ist diese nur als mathematische Formel 
anzugeben - und wenn dann der LKW nicht zentriert den
Tunnel trifft, oder eine Bodenwelle die Stoßdämpfer zu
vertikalen Schwingungen anregt, kracht es dann dennoch...

Am Mittwoch, 27. Juli 2011 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck:
  hi !
 
 wenn man eine Bogendurchfahrt hat, dann ist am Rand die Durchfahrtshöhe 
 anders als in der Mitte (idr).
 
 Wie würdet Ihr dieses bei maxheight anschreiben ?
 
 Gruß Jan :-)
 

Bei Kirchlengern habe ich eine Autobahnunterführung gesehen, für
die als max. Höhe 3,90 m angegeben sind, und die mit einem Warnsystem 
(Höhenmessung) ausgestattet ist, vermutlich da der Straßenbelag 
erhöht wurde. Ich habe aber einen 4m-LKW beobachtet, der im 
Schrittempo die Unterführung passiert hat (ohne Schaden).

Fazit: Im Zweifel die offiziell angegebene (wie bei maxspeed auch)
- nicht die physikalisch mögliche. Sonst: Toleranz einplanen.

Gruß
Ralf

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[Talk-de] Grundriss der Kathedrale zu Budweis (Budějovice)

2011-07-27 Per discussione RalfGesellensetter
Hallo

In der Karte fiel mir auf, was die Daten bestätigen:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/map?bbox=14.4644844,48.964659,14.4844853,48.98466279995

Das windzerzauste Gemäuer ist vermutlich durch die
Vektorisierung (von Luftbildern?) entstanden...

Weiß wer mehr darüber?

Gruß
Ralf

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Re: [Talk-de] Welche MaxHeight wird angegeben ?

2011-07-27 Per discussione Chris66
Am 27.07.2011 16:22, schrieb RalfGesellensetter:

 Fazit: Im Zweifel die offiziell angegebene (wie bei maxspeed auch)
 - nicht die physikalisch mögliche. Sonst: Toleranz einplanen.

Das sowieso, aber bei Bogendurchfahrten gibt es eben 2 offizielle
Angaben.

Ich würde dann den von der Mitte nehmen.

http://www.fireworld.at/cms/images/news/badsauerbrunn_200609_1.jpg

Chris


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[Talk-de] GoogleEarth-Bilder

2011-07-27 Per discussione Wolfgang Wienke

Hallo!
Weiß jemand, wo man das Datum der Bilder einsehen kann?
--
   Mit freundlichen Gruessen

 Wolfgang Wienke

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Re: [Talk-de] Welche MaxHeight wird angegeben ?

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 27. Juli 2011 15:03 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck o...@tappenbeck.net:
 wenn man eine Bogendurchfahrt hat, dann ist am Rand die Durchfahrtshöhe
 anders als in der Mitte (idr).

 Wie würdet Ihr dieses bei maxheight anschreiben ?


Du könntest den mittleren Wert als maxheight an den highway setzen und
an der niedrigen Stelle einen Node setzen mit dem maxheight der
seitlichen Höhe (ggf. für die Durchfahrt auch einen Way zeichnen, der
die 3 nodes verbindet, z.B. barrier=entrance, bzw. wenn Du die Mauer
schon hast dann den Durchfahrtsteil absplitten und mit
barrier=entrance taggen).

Alternativ müsste man ein Proposal machen, wie man das alles
parametrisch (mit Breite, Bogenform und mittlerer sowie seitlicher
Höhe) an einen Node hängen kann.

Beides wird natürlich derzeit AFAIK nirgends ausgewertet.

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] JOSM: gibt es ein Werkzeug - Flächen zu prüfen

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 27. Juli 2011 14:26 schrieb fx99 f...@vollbio.de:
 sieht für mich auch gut aus.
 Hab den Weg mal in ein MP reingepackt, auch da heißt es geschlossen!


JOSM kann seit kurzem auch darstellen, ob ein Weg geschlossen ist
(sieht man am Icon z.B. im Selection-fenster)

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] GoogleEarth-Bilder

2011-07-27 Per discussione Steffen Heinz

Am 27.07.2011 17:39, schrieb Wolfgang Wienke:

Hallo!
Weiß jemand, wo man das Datum der Bilder einsehen kann?
So auf Anhieb kann ich dir das nicht sagen, da ichs aber schon mal 
gemacht habe kann ich nur anmerken das die Daten nicht unbedingt 
stimmen. ich habe 10 Jahre unterschied feststellen können



Grüße aus der Eifel
Steffen

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[Talk-de] Prozess auf Heimserver starten

2011-07-27 Per discussione andre

Hallo Liste,

ich möchte meine Berechnungen für eine Garminkarte von meinem 
Desktoprechner auf einen Heimserver verschieben, damit der Prozess nicht 
meinen Desktop belegt. Dazu habe ich Ubuntu Server 10.04.2 LTS installiert.
Die Verbindung stelle ich per ssh her. Wenn ich mich nun per ssh 
einlogge kann ich alle Funktionen des Systems nutzen. Allerdings muss 
das Terminalfenster mit der ssh-Sitzung geöffnet bleiben bis das 
Programm fertig gerechnet hat. Nun möchte ich aber nicht die ganze Zeit 
meinen Desktop anhaben.


Gelöst habe ich das Problem quickdirty über einen cronjob. Das finde 
ich aber nicht fachgerecht.


Daher meine Frage, wie kann ich ein beliebiges Programm so starten dass 
es im Hintergrund läuft und sich nicht beendet wenn ich das ssh ausschalte?



grüße
Andre

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Re: [Talk-de] Prozess auf Heimserver starten

2011-07-27 Per discussione Chris66
Am 27.07.2011 20:32, schrieb andre:

 Daher meine Frage, wie kann ich ein beliebiges Programm so starten dass
 es im Hintergrund läuft und sich nicht beendet wenn ich das ssh ausschalte?

Da gab es mal das Programm nohub dafür.

Chris


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Re: [Talk-de] Prozess auf Heimserver starten

2011-07-27 Per discussione P.Priess
Am 27.07.2011 20:32, schrieb andre:
 Daher meine Frage, wie kann ich ein beliebiges Programm so starten dass
 es im Hintergrund läuft und sich nicht beendet wenn ich das ssh ausschalte?

Sehr schön ist auch 'screen'. Du kannst mehrere Screens öffnen und
Programme starten. Später kannst Du den Screen wieder öffnen und die
Ausgabe des Programms beobachten.

Viele Grüße, Peter

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Re: [Talk-de] GoogleEarth-Bilder

2011-07-27 Per discussione Michael Bemmerl
Wolfgang Wienke schrieb:
 Weiß jemand, wo man das Datum der Bilder einsehen kann?

Am unteren Rand steht bei großerem Zoom das Datum der Aufnahme.

Grüße,
Michael




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Re: [Talk-de] Prozess auf Heimserver starten

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 27. Juli 2011 20:37 schrieb Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org:
 nohup meinprogramm.sh

 oder Du installierst Dir screen, das ist etwas komfortabler, weil Du da
 beim Wieder-Einloggen wieder die gleiche Shell-Sitzung zurueckholen kannst
 und so direkt siehst, was das Programm evtl. ausgegeben hat.


nachdem man sich durch die 2500 Zeilen manpage gelesen hat ;-)

Man kann übrigens auch bereits laufende Programme anhalten und in den
Hintergrund schicken:
mit strg+z hält man das laufende Programm an
mit bg 1 (oder einer anderen Nummer, je nach Ausgabe von jobs) kann
man den Befehl dann in den Hintergrund schicken, mit fg 1 wieder
hervorholen.
jobs zeigt die Befehle mit Nummern und Status (angehalten/fertig/etc) an.

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Welche MaxHeight wird angegeben ?

2011-07-27 Per discussione Wolfgang
Hallo,
Am Mittwoch 27 Juli 2011 15:03:56 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck:
   hi !
 
 wenn man eine Bogendurchfahrt hat, dann ist am Rand die Durchfahrtshöhe
 anders als in der Mitte (idr).
 
 Wie würdet Ihr dieses bei maxheight anschreiben ?
 

Wenn was dran steht, würde ich den Wert übernehmen, weil sich derjenige, der 
das drangepappt hat, sich dieselben Gedanken gemacht haben sollte.

Wenn nichts dran steht und die Höhe 4m unterschreitet, ca. 2m von der Mitte 
auf beiden Seiten messen und den niedrigeren Wert abgerundet übernehmen.

Der Fahrer eines entsprechenden Fahrzeuges sollte mit der Problematik vertraut 
sein und da dann heil durchkommen.

Gruß, Wolfgang

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Re: [Talk-de] Welche MaxHeight wird angegeben ?

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
Am 28. Juli 2011 00:33 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de:
 Wenn nichts dran steht und die Höhe 4m unterschreitet, ca. 2m von der Mitte
 auf beiden Seiten messen und den niedrigeren Wert abgerundet übernehmen.

 Der Fahrer eines entsprechenden Fahrzeuges sollte mit der Problematik vertraut
 sein und da dann heil durchkommen.


ja klar, aber wenn sein Fahrzeug schmaler ist als 4 m (2,50m ist AFAIK
die Maxbreite für reguläre Fahrzeuge) dann würde er vielleicht noch
durchkommen, aber laut Daten schon nicht mehr.

Gru0 Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Prozess auf Heimserver starten

2011-07-27 Per discussione Frederik Ramm

Hi,

M?rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:

Man kann übrigens auch bereits laufende Programme anhalten und in den
Hintergrund schicken:
mit strg+z hält man das laufende Programm an
mit bg 1 (oder einer anderen Nummer, je nach Ausgabe von jobs) kann
man den Befehl dann in den Hintergrund schicken, mit fg 1 wieder
hervorholen.
jobs zeigt die Befehle mit Nummern und Status (angehalten/fertig/etc) an.


Je nach System muss man da noch ein disown %1 (das Prozent sollte man 
sich angewoehnen, bei bg/fg ist es optional, bei disown nicht) 
hinterherschicken, weil sonst der Prozess beendet wird, wenn man sich 
ausloggt.


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [Talk-de] golem: Skobblers Forevermap 2.1 für Android ist fertig

2011-07-27 Per discussione Thomas Reincke

Am 27.07.2011 07:23, schrieb Benjamin Hagemann:

Moin :)

fyi

golem: Skobblers Forevermap 2.1 für Android ist fertig
http://www.golem.de/1107/85228.html

Skobbler hat Forevermap 2.1 für die Android-Plattform veröffentlicht.
Die Openstreetmap-Kartensoftware zeigt interessante Orte in der Umgebung
besser an und ermöglicht den Download von Kartenmaterial über die
Skobbler-Webseite.


Danke für den Hinweis.

Das Programm erscheint mir endlich benutzbar zu sein. MapDroyd finde ich 
aber noch einen Tick besser. Vielleicht auch nur, weil dort 
Bushaltestellen angezeigt werden ;-)


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[Talk-de] Aerowestbilder

2011-07-27 Per discussione Jan Tappenbeck



 Hi !

es scheint soweit zu sein und in 
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=13207 wird schon 
angefragt ob und wie man das ganze in JOSM einbinden kann.


Weiß hier einer etwas dazu ??

Gruß Jan :-)


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Re: [Talk-it] Nomi delle regioni

2011-07-27 Per discussione Federico Cozzi
2011/7/26 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
 Concordo con Luca che si tratta cmq. di un bug che le regole di mapnik
 non renderizzano i regioni che non sono mappati con un nodo ma con
 un'area.

Non conosco bene Mapnik e la cartografia automatica.

Nelle mappe tradizionali la posizione delle label dipende anche
dall'estensione della mappa che si va a realizzare. Mi spiego con un
esempio.
L'etichetta Francia, in un planisfero, dovrebbe essere all'incirca
al centro della Francia.
Ma se realizzo una mappa della sola Italia (quelle che una volta erano
appese ai muri a scuola...), nel bordo a N-O ci finisce un pezzettino
di Francia, e lì vorrei comunque l'etichetta Francia, anche se in
quella mappa non è visibile il centro della Francia.

Per questo motivo penso che il nodo al centro della regione per
facilitare il piazzamento delle label sia un aiuto soltanto parziale
per Mapnik. Nel caso Mapnik debba realizzare un planisfero, potrebbe
seguire il suggerimento del nodo per il posizionamento; ma se deve
realizzare una mappa parziale, vorrei che fosse intelligente come una
buona vecchia cartina.

Ciao,
Federico

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Re: [Talk-it] Nomi delle regioni

2011-07-27 Per discussione Luca Delucchi
Il 27 luglio 2011 08:58, Federico Cozzi f.co...@gmail.com ha scritto:

 Per questo motivo penso che il nodo al centro della regione per
 facilitare il piazzamento delle label sia un aiuto soltanto parziale
 per Mapnik. Nel caso Mapnik debba realizzare un planisfero, potrebbe
 seguire il suggerimento del nodo per il posizionamento; ma se deve
 realizzare una mappa parziale, vorrei che fosse intelligente come una
 buona vecchia cartina.


hai pienamente ragione, non so bene a che punto siano su questo
argomento a breve verrà rilasciato mapnik2 e vedremo se hanno già
incominciato qualcosa oppure no e poi a denver parlerò un po' con dane
per vedere a che punto siamo

 Ciao,
 Federico


-- 
ciao
Luca

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www.lucadelu.org

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Re: [Talk-it] R: Re: R: Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

2011-07-27 Per discussione Luca Delucchi
Il 26 luglio 2011 16:48,  mima...@tin.it ha scritto:
 Ciao a tutti io avrei da inserire 2 percorsi di mountain bike con tanto di 
 logo e sito web zona trentino. Si svolge su strade secondarie, ciclabili, 
 strade forestali, sentieri etc. Come posso fare? Grazie Mich74

devi prima creare gli elementi (strade, sentieri ecc) e poi unirli in
una relazione route mtb [0].

[0] 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Route#Cycle_routes_.28also_mountain_bike.29

-- 
ciao
Luca

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www.lucadelu.org

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Re: [Talk-it] R: Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

2011-07-27 Per discussione Luca Delucchi
Il 26 luglio 2011 23:45, ale_z...@libero.it ale_z...@libero.it ha scritto:

 OT:
 Ci saranno informazioni e immagini delle mappe ultraobsolete!


alcune info obsolete le avevo eliminate (tipo mapping party dell'anno
scorso), alcune saranno rimaste. le immagini le ho rifatte (grazie a
kiwi) ieri ma solo per questione di DPI se no non erano molto diverse

-- 
ciao
Luca

http://gis.cri.fmach.it/delucchi/
www.lucadelu.org

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

2011-07-27 Per discussione Orlandi_IT_EmiliaRomagna
Ciao, come si fa a dichiarare un sentiero: 
-continental route  
-national route  
-regional route  
-local route 

Quale tag devo usare?

type:route
route:foot|bicycle
??:??

-
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Orlandi_IT_EmiliaRomagna
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

2011-07-27 Per discussione Luca Delucchi
2011/7/27 Orlandi_IT_EmiliaRomagna luca_orla...@hotmail.it:
 Ciao, come si fa a dichiarare un sentiero:
 -continental route
 -national route
 -regional route
 -local route

 Quale tag devo usare?

 type:route
 route:foot|bicycle
 ??:??

network:ncn / rcn / lcn / nwn / rwn /

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Route

-- 
ciao
Luca

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www.lucadelu.org

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

2011-07-27 Per discussione Orlandi_IT_EmiliaRomagna
Ok, Grazie 

-
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Orlandi_IT_EmiliaRomagna
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

2011-07-27 Per discussione Federico Cozzi
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Orlandi_IT_EmiliaRomagna
luca_orla...@hotmail.it wrote:
 Ok, Grazie

Di solito in Italia usiamo per i percorsi ciclabili:
-ncn: rete nazionale (quella proposta da Bicitalia + poche altre)
-rcn: rete regionale o provinciale (es. provincia di Trento, provincia
di Milano ecc.)
-lcn: rete comunale o sovracomunale (es. rete che attraversa una
manciata di comuni)

Ciao,
Federico

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[Talk-it] segnalazione: wolfram alpha use openstreetmap

2011-07-27 Per discussione Ruggero
http://blog.wolframalpha.com/2011/07/05/take-to-the-streets-with-wolframalpha/

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

2011-07-27 Per discussione Alberto Nogaro
Per gli utenti di smartphone, aggiungo che a cura di Jan Tappenbeck sono
anche disponibili delle mappe di Lonvia in versioni adatte ad essere
visualizzate su schermi piccoli, con un comodo tasto (Position??) che
permette di centrare la mappa sulla propria posizione (stimata con il GPS
integrato o in maniera più grossolana usando la rete radiomobile) ed
evidenziarla con un bollino giallo.

Mappa dei sentieri di Lonvia per smartphone:
http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/mobile.php?id=1034
Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici di Lonvia per smartphone:
http://www.tappenbeck.net/osm/maps/deu/mobile.php?id=1037

Ulteriori informazioni su:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:SmartyMaps
http://osm2go.tappenbeck.net/

Ciao,
Alberto


-Original Message-
From: Alberto Nogaro [mailto:bartosom...@yahoo.it] 
Sent: lunedì 25 luglio 2011 16:08
To: openstreetmap list - italiano
Subject: [Talk-it] Mappa degli itinerari ciclistici

Riporto un annuncio di interesse anche per i ciclisti italiani. Da alcuni
giorni Sarah Hoffmann ha affiancato alla già apprezzata mappa dei sentieri
[1]anche una mappa delle route ciclistiche [2] (relazioni route=bicycle).
Entrambi gli overlay coprono tutto il mondo, vengono aggiornati giornalmente
(la mappa ciclistica dopo quella escursionistica, l'aggiornamento è pronto
verso mezzogiorno), offrono la lista degli itinerari e la possibilità di
scaricarne il GPX.

[1] http://osm.lonvia.de/world_hiking.html
[2] http://cycling.lonvia.de

Ciao,
Alberto



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Re: [Talk-it] Nomi delle regioni

2011-07-27 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2011/7/27 Federico Cozzi f.co...@gmail.com:
 2011/7/26 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com:
 Concordo con Luca che si tratta cmq. di un bug che le regole di mapnik
 non renderizzano i regioni che non sono mappati con un nodo ma con
 un'area.

 Non conosco bene Mapnik e la cartografia automatica.

 Nelle mappe tradizionali la posizione delle label dipende anche
 dall'estensione della mappa che si va a realizzare. Mi spiego con un
 esempio.
 L'etichetta Francia, in un planisfero, dovrebbe essere all'incirca
 al centro della Francia.
 Ma se realizzo una mappa della sola Italia (quelle che una volta erano
 appese ai muri a scuola...), nel bordo a N-O ci finisce un pezzettino
 di Francia, e lì vorrei comunque l'etichetta Francia, anche se in
 quella mappa non è visibile il centro della Francia.

 Per questo motivo penso che il nodo al centro della regione per
 facilitare il piazzamento delle label sia un aiuto soltanto parziale
 per Mapnik. Nel caso Mapnik debba realizzare un planisfero, potrebbe
 seguire il suggerimento del nodo per il posizionamento; ma se deve
 realizzare una mappa parziale, vorrei che fosse intelligente come una
 buona vecchia cartina.


+1, si, se fai un immagine lo vuoi fare così, ma se crei dei tiles non
ti puoi comportare in questo modo, altrimenti avresti delle scritte
uguali per lo stesso paese.

ciao,
Martin

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[Talk-co] Servidor para http://openstreetmap.co disponible

2011-07-27 Per discussione Fredy Rivera
Hola maperxs

Para comentarles que ya tenemos disponible el servidor que aporto Banco
Mundial para que trabajemos nuestra instancia OSM de Colombia.

Por  lo tanto el ofrecimiento es para quienes quieran colaborar en los
proyectos posibles tales como el geocoder de Colombia,  render , WMS etc.

Esperamos contar con sus mercedes para esta nueva etapa.

salu2
humano


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Re: [Talk-co] Servidor para http://openstreetmap.co disponible

2011-07-27 Per discussione Leonardo Gutierrez
Sumerce muchas gracias por esas gestiones, y felicitaciones por ese logro

El día 27 de julio de 2011 09:08, Fredy Rivera fredyriv...@gmail.com escribió:
 Hola maperxs
 Para comentarles que ya tenemos disponible el servidor que aporto Banco
 Mundial para que trabajemos nuestra instancia OSM de Colombia.
 Por  lo tanto el ofrecimiento es para quienes quieran colaborar en los
 proyectos posibles tales como el geocoder de Colombia,  render , WMS etc.
 Esperamos contar con sus mercedes para esta nueva etapa.
 salu2
 humano

 --
 Por favor, no me envíe documentos con extensiones .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx,
 .ppt, .pptx, .mdb, mdbx
 OpenOffice es libre: se puede copiar, modificar y redistribuir libremente.
 Gratis y totalmente legal.
 http://GaleNUx.com es el sistema de información para la salud
 --///--
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 skype: llamarafredyrivera

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Móvil: 3125860894


 Este mensaje de correo electrónico y sus documentos adjuntos están
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información contenida puede ser CONFIDENCIAL y/o estar LEGALMENTE
PROTEGIDA y no necesariamente refleja la opinión de AUTOBUSES AGA DE
COLOMBIA LTDA. Si usted recibe este mensaje por ERROR, por favor
comuníquese inmediatamente al remitente y  ELIMINELO ya que usted  NO
ESTA AUTORIZADO al uso, revelación, distribución, impresión o copia de
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Re: [Talk-co] Servidor para http://openstreetmap.co disponible

2011-07-27 Per discussione Igor TAmara
Hola, listo, abrimos una lista de desarrollo para ello? La idea es no
hacer flood de las cosas que vayan sucediéndose por allá que sean como
muy técnicas.  Me apunto para ello.  Mis intenciones son colaborar en
:
 * Geocoder
 * Sysadmin

Gracias :)


El día 27 de julio de 2011 09:08, Fredy Rivera fredyriv...@gmail.com escribió:
 Hola maperxs
 Para comentarles que ya tenemos disponible el servidor que aporto Banco
 Mundial para que trabajemos nuestra instancia OSM de Colombia.
 Por  lo tanto el ofrecimiento es para quienes quieran colaborar en los
 proyectos posibles tales como el geocoder de Colombia,  render , WMS etc.
 Esperamos contar con sus mercedes para esta nueva etapa.
 salu2
 humano

 --
 Por favor, no me envíe documentos con extensiones .doc, .docx, .xls, .xlsx,
 .ppt, .pptx, .mdb, mdbx
 OpenOffice es libre: se puede copiar, modificar y redistribuir libremente.
 Gratis y totalmente legal.
 http://GaleNUx.com es el sistema de información para la salud
 --///--
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Re: [Talk-co] Servidor para http://openstreetmap.co disponible

2011-07-27 Per discussione Fredy Rivera
2011/7/27 Igor TAmara i...@tamarapatino.org
Hola

 Hola, listo, abrimos una lista de desarrollo para ello? La idea es no

 Me parece muy buena tu idea de crear una lista para desarrollo.

 hacer flood de las cosas que vayan sucediéndose por allá que sean como
 muy técnicas.  Me apunto para ello.  Mis intenciones son colaborar en
 :
  * Geocoder

Este es un proyecto prioritario , muchas gracias

  * Sysadmin

kleper nos está ayudando inicialmente como sysadmin, pero me parece que la
ayuda le caería bien, por favor coordina con el.

Otro proyecto que tendremos en el servidor es una instancia de
Walking-papers, esta la instalará Migurki en persona quien es el lider de
WP.


 Gracias :)


 El día 27 de julio de 2011 09:08, Fredy Rivera fredyriv...@gmail.com
 escribió:
  Hola maperxs
  Para comentarles que ya tenemos disponible el servidor que aporto Banco
  Mundial para que trabajemos nuestra instancia OSM de Colombia.
  Por  lo tanto el ofrecimiento es para quienes quieran colaborar en los
  proyectos posibles tales como el geocoder de Colombia,  render , WMS etc.
  Esperamos contar con sus mercedes para esta nueva etapa.
  salu2
  humano
 
  --
  Por favor, no me envíe documentos con extensiones .doc, .docx, .xls,
 .xlsx,
  .ppt, .pptx, .mdb, mdbx
  OpenOffice es libre: se puede copiar, modificar y redistribuir
 libremente.
  Gratis y totalmente legal.
  http://GaleNUx.com es el sistema de información para la salud
 
 --///--
  Teléfono USA:  (347) 688-4473 (Google voice)
  skype: llamarafredyrivera
 
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  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-co
 
 

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Gratis y totalmente legal.
http://GaleNUx.com es el sistema de información para la salud
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Re: [Talk-co] Servidor para http://openstreetmap.co disponible

2011-07-27 Per discussione Germán Márquez Mejía
Am Wed, 27 Jul 2011 09:08:27 -0500
schrieb Fredy Rivera fredyriv...@gmail.com:

 Hola maperxs
 
 Para comentarles que ya tenemos disponible el servidor que aporto
 Banco Mundial para que trabajemos nuestra instancia OSM de Colombia.
 
 Por  lo tanto el ofrecimiento es para quienes quieran colaborar en los
 proyectos posibles tales como el geocoder de Colombia,  render , WMS
 etc.

¡Excelente noticia! Me apunto a montar tile server.

 
 Esperamos contar con sus mercedes para esta nueva etapa.
 
 salu2
 humano
 
 


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Re: [Talk-dk] [OpenStreetMap] Gadenavne i Lyngby

2011-07-27 Per discussione Jarl Friis
Hej Liste.

Jeg er ny på listen, og Lars skrev til mig (og gjorde mig opmærksom på
mailing listen), og jeg mener at hans mail til mig og mit svar har
større værdi på listen end blot os to i mellem, så her kommer det:

tagg m-200490-aa5...@messages.openstreetmap.org writes:

 Hej jarl,

 Jeg så du havde rettet et par gadenavne i Lyngby, fx 'Holger
 Drachmanns Vej' til '〓Holger Drachmanns V.', 'Sophus Schandorphs
 Vej' til 'S.Schandorphs Vej' og et par andre
 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/8259301). Jeg kan
 godt forstå dig, for de stod som fejl i bl.a. OSM Inspector.

Hej Lars.

Jeg er ny mht. OSM arbejde, men har lang erfaring med medcrowdsourcing
(i OpenSource miljøet).

Jeg vidste ikke der var et kontroværs om navngivningen i Lyngby-Taarbæk
kommune.

Jeg synes det er fint at du har rettet navnene tilbage, men har lige
et par kommentarer med på vejen:

årsagen til mine rettelser var:
http://osm.rasher.dk/tools/missing_streets.php?postcode=2800distance=500

 Men fejlen skyldes forkerte vejnavne i OSAK-data

Det var lidt af en påstand, har det danske OSM-miljø fået denne besked
fra en officiel kanal fra KMS (Kort- og Matrikkelstyrelsen)? Eller er
det blot din holdning til situationen?

 , og den rigtige måde at løse det på er ikke at omdøbe vejen til
 nogen (ligeså) forkert.

Ja, hvis det er OSAK-databasen som er fejlbehæftet, men hvem siger det
er det?

Årsagen til forskel på OSAK-data og navneskilte på vejen kan basalt
skyldes (mindst) en af to mulighedder:

1) OSAK-databasen er fejbehæftet.
2) Navneskiltet på vejen viser en representation af vejnavnet som ikke
nødvendigvis er en verbatim angivelse af det kanoniske vejnavn som
findes i OSAK-databasen.

Sidespring:
   Der findes ogsa flere representationer af det samme
   postditrikt, fx. 1650 København V, 1650 Kbh. V, 1650 V
   Her er 1650 København V nok det kanoniske, men de andre synes lige 
brugbare (og ikke
   nødvendigvis forkerte)

Dermed har jeg argumenteret for at det lige så godt kunne være
vejskiltene som ikke har påtrykt det kanoniske navn af vejnavnet.

Min kone arbejder i tekniske forvaltning i Lyngby-Taarbæk kommune
(LTK). Hun bekræfter at det er et stort problem i LTK at skiltene og
BBR (OSAK-data) ikke er ens. Jeg har bedt hende om at tage en snak med
kollegaerne om hvad er rigtig og forkert. Når de lige har diskutteret
det sammen (og evt. sammen med KMS) kan vi (OSM-community) sende et
officielt spørgsmål af officiel kanal til LTK og få et officielt svar
på hvilke naven som er korrekte. Det kan vi (OSM-community) så bruge
som kilde til vores navngivning.

Helt uafhængigt af dette kunne nogen i OSM-community henvende sig til
KMS med samme problematik og høres deres udmelding.

Jeg er med i en ekspert-gruppe (fordi jeg er erfaren tekniker) i Dansk
Cyklist Forbunds (DCF) initiativ om at bruge OSM som deres fremtidige
officielle cykelkort, se beta på http://www.cyclistic.dk/ (specielt
http://www.cyclistic.dk/Article/1/OmCyclistic). I denne ekspertgruppe
var der vist også et par stykker som arbejde i KMS. De er nok ikke den
officielle kanal, men det kan måske få debaten startet i KMS hvis man
lige vender problematikken med dem...

 Der er i øjeblikket en diskussion på mailing-listen om hvordan vi
 håndterer det fremover.

Tak, nu har jeg tilmeldt mig.

 Men indtil videre har jeg (på baggrund af et survey på cykel) rettet
 gadenavnene tilbage til det, der står på skiltene.

Det er fint, husk at angive source.

 Med venlig hilsen
 Lars Thegler (tagg)

Jarl

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Rådhustorvet 7, 2. sal
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Phone:  +45 26 13 20 90
E-mail: j...@softace.dk
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jarlfriis


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[Talk-dk] Se OSM tags i QuantumGIS?

2011-07-27 Per discussione Emil Tin

Hej,

Hvad er den bedst måde at se OSM data i Quantum GIS?

Jeg arbejder data for området der dækker Københavns Kommune.

Jeg har downloadet OSM data for Danmark fra GeoFabrik, og brugt osmosis til at 
udtrække data for København og lægge dem over i en PostGIS database. Jeg kan 
åbne data med QuantumGIS, og se nodes og ways. Men jeg kan ikke se tags, og 
heller ikke polygoner.

Hvis jeg kigger direkte i databasen med fx pgAdmin, kan jeg godt kan se tags'ne.

De jeg arbejde med ruteplanlægning er det ikke så vigtigt for mig at få en smuk 
rendering. Jeg er fx ok med at ways blot er tegnet som en simpel linje. Men det 
kunne være fedt del bare at kunne se tags, dels at style ways på baggrund af 
tags, fx se hvor bicycle=yes eller hvor der er ensretning..

Jeg har prøvet OSM plugin'et, men jeg kan ikke få det til at importere et mit 
OSM layer der kommer fra PostGIS. Man kan ikke download data, da området er for 
stort.


VH
Emil Tin



PS. Jeg havde et problem med at osmosis bruger bigint til id columns, men 
QuantumGIS kun kan bruge int4, men fik det løst.



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Re: [Talk-dk] Se OSM tags i QuantumGIS?

2011-07-27 Per discussione Soren Johannessen
Hej


 Hvad er den bedst måde at se OSM data i Quantum GIS?
Åbner du OSM data fra en XX.osm fil via OpenStreetMap plugin i QGIS?

Hvis ja så prøv at højre klikke ude ved layers på lines og dernæst
open attribute table - nu skulle ting som user, tags osv dukke
op i tabellerne

For at se polygoner så højreklikker du på polygons for at se tags

vh Søren


NB Forresten sejt at Kbh Kommune begynder at analysere og kigge på OSM data

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Re: [Talk-dk] Se OSM tags i QuantumGIS?

2011-07-27 Per discussione Emil Tin
Hvis jeg bruger OpenStreetMap plugin i QGIS, kan jeg ikke få den til at åben en 
osm fil. I filvælgeren er alle filer grå - både .osm, .osm.xml og .osm.pbf 
filer. Hvilke filformat læser plugin'et?



-Oprindelig meddelelse-
Fra: Soren Johannessen [mailto:soren.johannes...@gmail.com] 
Sendt: 27. juli 2011 16:44
Til: OpenStreetMap Denmark
Emne: Re: [Talk-dk] Se OSM tags i QuantumGIS?

Hej


 Hvad er den bedst måde at se OSM data i Quantum GIS?
Åbner du OSM data fra en XX.osm fil via OpenStreetMap plugin i QGIS?

Hvis ja så prøv at højre klikke ude ved layers på lines og dernæst
open attribute table - nu skulle ting som user, tags osv dukke
op i tabellerne

For at se polygoner så højreklikker du på polygons for at se tags

vh Søren


NB Forresten sejt at Kbh Kommune begynder at analysere og kigge på OSM data

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Re: [Talk-dk] [OpenStreetMap] Gadenavne i Lyngby

2011-07-27 Per discussione Lars Thegler
2011/7/27 Jarl Friis j...@softace.dk:
 Men fejlen skyldes forkerte vejnavne i OSAK-data

 Det var lidt af en påstand, har det danske OSM-miljø fået denne besked
 fra en officiel kanal fra KMS (Kort- og Matrikkelstyrelsen)? Eller er
 det blot din holdning til situationen?

Jeg skulle nok ikke have brugt betegnelsen 'forkert', fordi det
afhænger helt af de øjne der ser. Internt i LTK kan man sagtens mene
at 'Holger Drachmanns V.' er det 'rigtige'/kanoniske navn, men i OSM
bør vejene kaldes det de hedder 'on the ground' - dvs hvad der står på
skiltene (se http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name).

/Lars

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