Re: [Talk-GB] 'historic' county boundaries added to the database

[Colin Spiller]

Here in Yorkshire, people are very possessive (if that's the right 
word!) about the old county boundary (i.e. pre 1974). Many people are 
very aware of the problem (as they see it) that certain parts of 
Yorkshire have been transferred to (or 'stolen by') Lancashire, or other 
counties. They still think of the 3 Ridings as current in some cases.


And Liverpool and Manchester are still parts of Lancashire according to 
some!


Colin


On 08/08/18 10:55, Mark Goodge wrote:



On 07/08/2018 20:48, Dave F wrote:

Hi

User smb1001 is currently adding county boundary relations with 
boundary=historic through out the UK:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/ASf (May take a while to run)

Changeset discussion:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/61410203

 From the historic wiki page
"historic objects should not be mapped as it is outside of scope of OSM"

Frankly I don't buy his comments. The problem is where to stop? Do we 
have ever iteration of every boundary change since time immemorial? 
Then what about buildings, roads, or coastline changes etc? The 
database would become unmanageable for editors (it already is if 
zoomed out too far).


I agree that "historic" boundaries don't belong in OSM. They have 
value for historic researchers, but, as you say, that's not what OSM 
is about.


It's also flat out incorrect to say that historic boundaries are 
"immutable". Although it is true that there were massive changes in 
the 1970s and a lot more since then, the idea that the historic (or 
"traditional") counties were stable throughout history is just 
myth-making. A lot of what people think of as the historic county 
boundaries are, in fact, a Victorian creation. And even they didn't 
leave them alone!


I do think, though, that there's a case for including the current 
ceremonial and preserved county boundaries. These have a defined and 
relevant meaning here and now, even if it's a less common one than 
administrative boundaries such as counties, districts and parishes. 
Maybe the people adding historic boundaries to OSM could be nudged in 
that direction instead.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] Updates to 'Survey Me!' tool

[Colin Spiller]

Oh and another where the fhrs listing has the wrong postcode!
Colin

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On 23 Jul 2018, 21:55, at 21:55, Colin Spiller  wrote:
>I know of a local business which has closed but is still listed in
>gregrs tool. What can I do about it?
>Colin
>
>⁣Sent from TypeApp ​
>
>On 23 Jul 2018, 21:38, at 21:38, Andrew Hain
> wrote:
>>Where I live businesses that are still open sometimes drop out of
>FHRS.
>>Your mileage may very.
>>
>>--
>>Andrew
>>
>>
>>From: Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
>>Sent: 23 July 2018 10:52
>>To: talk-gb
>>Subject: [Talk-GB] Updates to 'Survey Me!' tool
>>
>>A couple of minor updates to my 'Survey Me!' tool at
>>http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/survey/ to tell you about:
>>
>>First there is a new category of FHRS (Food Hygiene Rating System)
>>reference mismatches. This includes items where the number in the
>>fhrs:id=* tag doesn't match a current number in the official FHRS
>>database. The data comes from Greg's comparison tool at
>>https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/ and wlil hopefully be
>>updated daily. A small number of these mismatches may be typos in the
>>original data entry, but the rest will either be because a business
>>has closed (survey probably required) or because a business has
>>changed in some way causing a new number to be issued (could possibly
>>be fixed by reference to the FHRS comparison tool).
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Updates to 'Survey Me!' tool

[Colin Spiller]

I know of a local business which has closed but is still listed in gregrs tool. 
What can I do about it?
Colin

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On 23 Jul 2018, 21:38, at 21:38, Andrew Hain  
wrote:
>Where I live businesses that are still open sometimes drop out of FHRS.
>Your mileage may very.
>
>--
>Andrew
>
>
>From: Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
>Sent: 23 July 2018 10:52
>To: talk-gb
>Subject: [Talk-GB] Updates to 'Survey Me!' tool
>
>A couple of minor updates to my 'Survey Me!' tool at
>http://robert.mathmos.net/osm/survey/ to tell you about:
>
>First there is a new category of FHRS (Food Hygiene Rating System)
>reference mismatches. This includes items where the number in the
>fhrs:id=* tag doesn't match a current number in the official FHRS
>database. The data comes from Greg's comparison tool at
>https://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/ and wlil hopefully be
>updated daily. A small number of these mismatches may be typos in the
>original data entry, but the rest will either be because a business
>has closed (survey probably required) or because a business has
>changed in some way causing a new number to be issued (could possibly
>be fixed by reference to the FHRS comparison tool).
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] House of Fraser

[Colin Spiller]

The BBC are reporting 14 Mattressman stores closing too

See https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-44482882 for the list 
of stores



Colin



On 07/06/18 20:53, Andrew Hain wrote:
House of Fraser today announced today that half their branches are to 
close, listing which ones. Although shops should not yet be removed 
does it make sense with this announcement (or others like it in the 
future) to put notes or fixmes in the 31 locations involved?


--
Andrew


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Re: [Talk-GB] Hull road renamed after rugby league star - BBC News

[Colin Spiller]

I see malcolmh has already renamed it. Now I know who Clive Sullivan Way is 
named after. I always wondered.
Colin

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On 27 Jan 2018, 09:36, at 09:36, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
>Road renamed in Hull:
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-42819078
>
>Does anyone have the coordinates, or the ID of the way, please?
>
>--
>Andy Mabbett
>@pigsonthewing
>http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS info when pub has been taken over.

[Colin Spiller]

I have similar near here.
Keep the address at least! Remove the fhrs:I'd seems sensible.
Colin

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On 20 Jan 2018, 22:42, at 22:42, Andrew Black  
wrote:
>If a pub has been taken over by a chain (and changed name), should one
>delete FHRS info.
>My gut feeling is yes but. ...
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Importing Shell fuel stations

[Colin Spiller]

I've been adding postcodes in the Bradford BD area using Robert & gregrs 
useful tools. I've just noticed that the Shell station at the Rooley 
Lane / Rooley Avenue junction BD5 8JR is now reported as having an 
incorrect postal unit (the final two letters of the postcode). This 
postcode appears widely on the internet for this site, but the RM 
postcode finder thinks it should be Rooley Avenue, BD6 1DA.


The node Fuel #5210358416 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5210358416> 
has these tags:



   Tags

addr:postcode 
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:addr:postcode?uselang=en-GB> 
BD5 8JR
amenity <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:amenity?uselang=en-GB> 
fuel <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=fuel?uselang=en-GB>

brand <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:brand?uselang=en-GB>Shell
opening_hours 
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening%20hours?uselang=en-GB> 
24/7
phone <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:phone?uselang=en-GB> 	+44 
1274 306188 <tel:+441274306188>

ref:navads_shellNVDS353-12038573


but no street or city. The whole thing seems odd to me.

Colin


On 20/12/17 12:32, Ilya Zverev wrote:

Hi folks,

I have just uploaded the fuel stations:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/54785385

Thank you everyone who participated. I noticed there has been many "fixme" tags 
filled during the validation. You can see them all using Overpass API:

http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/tUW

Ilya
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Re: [Talk-GB] OpenRailwayMap

[Colin Spiller]

The link in the original email works fine to take you to a tweet, which 
links nicely to the map. Work OK for me with Android and Chrome, both on 
my phone and my tablet.


Colin


On 20/12/17 10:37, Phillip Barnett wrote:

Actually, it doesn’t work on a phone Browser. (iOS, Safari)

Sent from my iPhone

On 20 Dec 2017, at 10:11, Paul Berry <pmberry2...@gmail.com 
<mailto:pmberry2...@gmail.com>> wrote:



David,

Happily, nothing sinister. It's a url forwarder/shortener used by 
Twitter. Will work on a phone browser, but may be blocked by desktop 
browsers.


Regards,
/Paul/

On 19 December 2017 at 12:14, David Woolley 
<for...@david-woolley.me.uk <mailto:for...@david-woolley.me.uk>> wrote:


On 19/12/17 10:23, Steven Abrams (Brook Street) wrote:


https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/942751174922555393
<https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/942751174922555393>

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMrTimDunn%2Fstatus%2F942751174922555393=02%7C01%7Ca-

<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FMrTimDunn%2Fstatus%2F942751174922555393=02%7C01%7Ca->..


The URL in the HTML doesn't match the displayed one at all.  At
best I imagine it only works if you are subscribed to various
services.  At worst, Firefox is right, and it is a scam.


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Re: [Talk-GB] NatWest / RBS Branch closures

[Colin Spiller]

Lloyds Banking Group will close some bank branches (listed at 
https://www.lloydsbank.com/contact-us/branch-closures.asp ) and 
Yorkshire Building Society will close more (listed at 
http://www.ybs.co.uk/changes/index.html ).


It's a fairly general problem. Recording the list & annotating the OSM 
features sounds a good idea.


Colin



On 01/12/17 11:35, SK53 wrote:
RBS are planning another massive round of branch closures (a full list 
here 
<http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/01/list-of-natwest-and-rbs-branches-closing-across-the-uk-7123401/>).


I was wondering what the best approach might be to track these:

  * Notes on all relevant branches. We've done this in the past for
smaller chains (Netto, American Apparel) and the notes do get
closed eventually when someone re-surveys an area. Easier to spot
now through phone apps like Vespucci & OSMAnd
  * Fixmes on the branches. As above, but a little less visible
  * A wiki page listing branches & their equivalent OSM Id
  * A umap instance

Any thoughts?

Jerry



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[Talk-GB] Tagging Schools with fhrs:id

[Colin Spiller]

I've recently been catching up with some fhrs:id tags. I've found 
several (most?) of the local schools have entries in the Food Standards 
agency lists. I must have missed something, because I'm now confused.


Most of the school information is tagged to the school boundary. 
However, I would expect the fhrs:id tag to be on the relevant building 
within the boundary, but the comparison tool - thank you gregrs - 
expects both the postcode and the fhrs:id on the same object. So is that 
the standard - both on the boundary, and is it documented in the wiki 
anywhere? I thought I had better check before I did too many updates!


Thanks in advance

Colin


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Re: [Talk-GB] Large swaths of "heath" on Dartmoor

[Colin Spiller]

Sounds sensible to me but I'm no expert. We have lots of moor here in Yorkshire
Colin

⁣Sent from TypeApp ​

On 25 Sep 2017, 12:31, at 12:31, ael  wrote:
>On Thu, Feb 09, 2017 at 10:10:07AM +, SK53 wrote:
>> than anything they reflect that OSM as a project lacks good tags for
>many
>> of these boreo-temperate upland features, and whilst that is true
>there
>
>I have been changing some "heath" areas of Dartmoor to "moor". But I
>notice that the wiki claims that this is deprecated.
>
>Since most of these are large areas which really cover a variety of
>vegetation, I can't see that any of the "established" tags are really
>appropriate. "Moor" is exactly right.
>
>If forced to use the documentated tags, I would go for
>natural = grassland;wetland as the best approximation despite the
>fact that not everything is wet nor is grass.
>
>Of course, it only makes sense for coarse-grained approximate mapping,
>and more localised accurate tags are the ideal.
>
>Should "moor" or something similar be restored and supported by
>renderers?
>
>ael
>
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[Talk-GB] Food Hygiene ratings

[Colin Spiller]

Good morning and Happy Christmas.

I've just seen this link to my local paper via Twitter:

*Telegraph and Argus* ‏@*Bradford_TandA* 
<https://twitter.com/Bradford_TandA><https://twitter.com/Bradford_TandA/status/813934300085129216> 



Hundreds of food premises in Bradford have gone years without hygiene 
inspections http://dlvr.it/MzRZK0 <https://t.co/53NBoFijU7>



I guess it just means the decision not to include current ratings was a 
good idea. And there are still lots of premises to be mapped!

Colin

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM with Wikidata: now covers UK and Ireland

[Colin Spiller]

Isle of Man conspicuous by its absence
Colin

Edward Betts  wrote:

>I've extended my search for matches between OSM and Wikidata again. It now
>covers all of the UK and Ireland.
>
>I used map data from http://download.geofabrik.de/europe/british-isles.html
>
>The results are grouped by region or county as well as by category.
>
>http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/gb-ie/
>
>I'm going to figure out how to upload these matches to OSM. I've registered an
>account with the username Wikidata to use for the uploads.
>
>There will be one changeset per county + category for any category with 10 or
>more matches in that county. Categories with less than 10 matches in the
>county will be combined into a single changeset.
>
>OSM objects with an existing wikidata tag won't be changed.
>-- 
>Edward.
>
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[Talk-GB] Another curious school #OSMschools

[Colin Spiller]

Evening all

Robert's excellent school comparison shows up w164792334 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/164792334> Menwith Hill Elementary and 
High School in 'my' BD postcode area as not being in the Edubase list. 
Well that's true - it isn't.
it was an American facility located at RAF Menwith Hill 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Menwith_Hill> (really a USA base!). 
As it happens, it closed last summer so I can add 'disused' and clear it 
up - see 
http://www.stripes.com/news/europe/menwith-hill-lajes-schools-close-for-good-1.352059
It was originally added by Yorvik Prestigitator 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Yorvik%20Prestigitator>  nearly 2 
years ago and it has a wikipedia page of it's own at 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menwith_Hill_Elementary/High_School


I just wonder what I could have put for the Official ref!

Colin in West Yorkshire

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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM with Wikidata: 27,232 matches found in England

[Colin Spiller]

Thank you. Are there no entries at all for West Yorkshire?
Colin

Edward Betts <edw...@4angle.com> wrote:

>Colin Spiller <co...@thespillers.org.uk> wrote:
>> This looks good but doesn't seem to work well for Yorkshire and the Humber.
>> West Yorkshire doesn't seem to be available at all, and when I select
>> Schools (or anything else) i just get
>> Internal Server Error
>> 
>Sorry, there was a bug, it is now fixed.
>
>https://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/england/region/Yorkshire_and_the_Humber/Schools
>
>-- 
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Re: [Talk-GB] OSM with Wikidata: 27,232 matches found in England

[Colin Spiller]

Edward

This looks good but doesn't seem to work well for Yorkshire and the 
Humber. West Yorkshire doesn't seem to be available at all, and when I 
select Schools (or anything else) i just get

Internal Server Error

The server encountered an internal error and was unable to complete your 
request. Either the server is overloaded or there is an error in the 
application.


Is there a problem or have I (as usual) done something wrong?

Thanks
Colin in West Yorkshire



On 24/01/16 11:46, Edward Betts wrote:

I've extended my search for matches between OSM and Wikidata. It now covers
all of England instead of just the West Midlands.

The results are grouped by region or county as well as by category.

http://edwardbetts.com/osm-wikidata/england/

It should be possible to use this a basis for uploading. The results can be
grouped by category and county when uploaded.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project : Schools - Multiple Schools on one site

[Colin Spiller]

Here in West Yorkshire, I have a newly-rebuilt Beckfoot School, sharing 
the site and facilities with Hazelbeck Special School. As far as I know, 
there isn't anything dividing the two. Robert has these entries for them 
(thanks Robert - great job!):


139975 	BD16 1EE 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=53.841255=-1.829101=16> 
Beckfoot School



139977 	BD16 1EE 
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=53.841255=-1.829101=16> 
Hazelbeck Special School



They do have their own websites: http://www.beckfoot.org/ and 
http://www.hazelbeck.org/ !


Also nearby there are what used to be two separate single-sex schools 
which are now combined as a mixed school. Two sites about a mile apart.


Any recommendations as to how I should map these two extremes gratefully 
received!

Thanks
Colin, West Yorks


On 17/01/16 13:14, Lester Caine wrote:

On 17/01/16 12:40, Dave F. wrote:

Although I'm uncertain of a perfect solution as both the entrance and
recreation ground appears to be shared in Ed's example, I find there's
usually a defining boundary around schools that are adjacent to each
other. Especially infant schools where they don't want the little ones
wandering off. Looking at the site using a website that shall not be
mentioned, it appears to use a fence & the school building itself as the
barrier. On ground conformation will, of course, be required.

Situations where a school has a secure play area which is used by
Nursary and first school pupils at different times is not unusual,
especially now the 'Nursery' provision for younger children is being
added around the country. Ideally for us this would just extend the
range of an existing school, but there seems to be financial advantages
in creating a separate 'school'? Yes closer inspection may produce
different results, but to get the key data in now would be nice, and it
can be refined later?


As mapped ATM both the fhrs:id & ref:edubase tags aren't associated with
amenity=school which is not ideal for filtering data.

Proper quoting would have included this comment in with mine about
whether amenity=school was appropriate on the outer boundary when it is
difficult to separate multiple edubase refs inside the area. Just as
there are a number of ways off adding 'school' to an item, there may be
a case for 'landuse=school' where one is then going to add
'amenity=school' to the internal elements? Be that simple nodes for each
occupant of a high rise building, or the primary building of each where
several other buildings and play areas are shared during the day.

For filtering data I think that 'amenity=school' makes sense when linked
with all the primary data for each school, which ever country is looked
at, so some means of identifying the landuse for a multiple school area
is the logical follow through. I'm very tempted at the moment to simply
remove the Evesham boundary 'amenity=school' tag and replace it with on
on each primary building which will at least allow the current
verification to cross them off the list. What ever way things are
progressed, something needs to be changed.

( And in relation to mass adding wikidata tags to the CURRENT school
references, this is premature since in many cases the wrong area is tagged )




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Re: [Talk-GB] Tag for benches

[Colin Spiller]

I understand the benches in Leeds City Centre all had additional 
armrests fitted in the middle to prevent anyone lying on them to sleep 
overnight. Same comfort_rating ?



On 10/04/14 17:57, Andy Mabbett wrote:

comfort_rating=0 ?

Benches installed in the centre of a seaside town have been
deliberately designed to be uncomfortable, council bosses have
admitted.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/apr/10/dover-benches-designed-uncomfortable-council-bosses



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