Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Caribbean Netherlands
On 11/8/18 9:38 AM, Pander OpenTaal wrote: > > Frederik, thanks for the changes so far. Good to wait with parts of > Belgium. Also good to stay clear of political issues and only use > geographic considerations. For me, fine not to split up Saint > Martin/Sint Maarten. > > As for these six Dutch islands in South America, good question on how > to call these in a geographic way. The name Caribbean Netherlands > officially only refers to only three of the six islands, see > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Netherlands > > Politically, historically and geographically, these islands can be > grouped in many different ways with different names, see > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Caribbean#Grouping_of_islands > Which doesn't make it easier. Calling it Dutch Caribbean is the least > best name of the three options, I think. > > Even though the name *Netherlands Antilles* indeed as a political > entity no longer exists, see > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles Advantage of this > name, is that it doesn't favor certain islands because of the current > political construct (in which only a few are officially in Caribbean > Netherlands). > > I think that is the best name to use, as it is also closer to what is > used in the Dutch language. Nobody talks about the /Caraïbische > Nederlanden/. > Fredrik, I have check a bit with people from there. It is indeed not easy, but Dutch Caribbean covers it best, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Caribbean This is also the name with the least confusion with regard to previously existing political and administrative entities. Could you use that, so at least the download becomes available. If people object, we can always change the name. > > ___ > Talk-nl mailing list > Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Caribbean Netherlands
I like this video that explains the differences: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE_IUPInEuc m. On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 9:39 AM Pander OpenTaal wrote: > > Frederik, thanks for the changes so far. Good to wait with parts of Belgium. > Also good to stay clear of political issues and only use geographic > considerations. For me, fine not to split up Saint Martin/Sint Maarten. > > As for these six Dutch islands in South America, good question on how to call > these in a geographic way. The name Caribbean Netherlands officially only > refers to only three of the six islands, see > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Netherlands > > Politically, historically and geographically, these islands can be grouped in > many different ways with different names, see > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Caribbean#Grouping_of_islands Which > doesn't make it easier. Calling it Dutch Caribbean is the least best name of > the three options, I think. > > Even though the name Netherlands Antilles indeed as a political entity no > longer exists, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles > Advantage of this name, is that it doesn't favor certain islands because of > the current political construct (in which only a few are officially in > Caribbean Netherlands). > > I think that is the best name to use, as it is also closer to what is used in > the Dutch language. Nobody talks about the Caraïbische Nederlanden. > > ___ > Talk-nl mailing list > Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Caribbean Netherlands
Frederik, thanks for the changes so far. Good to wait with parts of Belgium. Also good to stay clear of political issues and only use geographic considerations. For me, fine not to split up Saint Martin/Sint Maarten. As for these six Dutch islands in South America, good question on how to call these in a geographic way. The name Caribbean Netherlands officially only refers to only three of the six islands, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribbean_Netherlands Politically, historically and geographically, these islands can be grouped in many different ways with different names, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Caribbean#Grouping_of_islands Which doesn't make it easier. Calling it Dutch Caribbean is the least best name of the three options, I think. Even though the name *Netherlands Antilles* indeed as a political entity no longer exists, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles Advantage of this name, is that it doesn't favor certain islands because of the current political construct (in which only a few are officially in Caribbean Netherlands). I think that is the best name to use, as it is also closer to what is used in the Dutch language. Nobody talks about the /Caraïbische Nederlanden/. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Caribbean Netherlands
On 2018-11-08 01:48, Frederik Ramm wrote: The groupings "ABC" and "SSS" seem to be rather informal; other options would be to group everything in one and call it... well... "Nederlandse Antillen" is not an official term any more, is it? Not anymore, not since 2010. It used to be one country within the kingdom, now the 6 islands have their own status (some are municipalities, some are countries). And "Caribisch Nederland" is just three of the six islands? Yes, these are the three islands that are municipalities and therefore part of the country the Netherlands. But they are geographically not one entity. One could also have separate files for each but they would be *really* small. Is the ABC/SSS grouping the obvious choice? I would say yes. I somewhat dislike the splitting of Saint Martin/Sint Maarten. I figure that for all practical purposes, a map user would want to load a file that contains both parts of the island, and it would be cumbersome to have to pick the two halves out from underneath the Netherlands and France (especially as there will be some overlap so combining the two files can be difficult). I hope that everyone can see that your downloads and splits are based on a convenience level rather than on a political level. I at least would be deaf to political views on this point. Concerning: Sint-Maarten/Saint-Martin: I would include both in any download. The dataset is so small and it is logical. Regards, Maarten ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Caribbean Netherlands
Hi, in the "split up Netherlands on Geofabrik download server" thread the topic of the "ABC" and "SSS" islands was brought up. I'll have to think about that. Things are a bit disorganised on the download server when it comes to overseas territories. For example, the Canary Islands have their own entry under "Africa" because that's where they belong geographically, even though politically they are of course a part of Spain. Once I split up Spain I'll probably have to add them under Spain with the other subdivisions. Guadeloupe, which is geographically in Central America, already has its own entry under "France" (which can be confusing since the france.osm.pbf does *not* contain Guadeloupe - just as the netherlands.osm.pbf is also confined to the European part of the country). The groupings "ABC" and "SSS" seem to be rather informal; other options would be to group everything in one and call it... well... "Nederlandse Antillen" is not an official term any more, is it? And "Caribisch Nederland" is just three of the six islands? One could also have separate files for each but they would be *really* small. Is the ABC/SSS grouping the obvious choice? I somewhat dislike the splitting of Saint Martin/Sint Maarten. I figure that for all practical purposes, a map user would want to load a file that contains both parts of the island, and it would be cumbersome to have to pick the two halves out from underneath the Netherlands and France (especially as there will be some overlap so combining the two files can be difficult). I'm open to suggestions on this. I would guess the Dutch and the French are rather relaxed about the Saint Martin/Sint Maarten split but who knows, maybe it's a hot political issue ;) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
