[Talk-transit] IFOPT-numbers for public transport platforms
Dear list, First I'd like to say hello, my name is Andreas, and I consider it one of my main priorities in OSM to map things related to public transport (routes, stops) in my home city of Graz, Austria and beyond. The bus and tram lines in Graz are complete for quite some time now, so I started entering all the regional bus lines in Styria (a list of the current progress is here: [1]). Of course, I use the current tagging scheme, which can be quite tideous for regional buslines, because often there are many variants which each should get their own relation. My masterpiece so far are the bus routes 200/201 with a total of 62 variants (the timetable is so long, it's split into two files: [2],[3], route_masters in OSM: [4],[5]). So far the biggest problem was finding the correct position of bus stops in rural areas, where they often can't be seen on aerial images (no road-markings, no bays, no shelters...). Therefore, I'm very happy that we got the position of all public transport stops in Styria for use in OSM. The planned import is outlined here: [6] and a discussion has been started on the imports-Mailinglist: [7]. The reason for my mail to you is: We also received a lot of attributes for each platform, including a unique ID per platform, which has been identified as the IFOPT-number, an internationally unique number. It appears unclear, if this number should be added to all the platforms in OSM, or if this is unnecessary/unwanted. Has there already been a discussion on how (if at all) to use this number? The most straigh-forward method that comes to my mind would be to include it as ref:IFOPT, but what is the opinion on this list? I think it could become important when timetable- or real-time-data becomes available, but I don't know if this is true. I'm looking forward to you answers, Andreas [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Austria/Regionalbusse_Steiermark [2] http://verbundlinie.at/busbahnbim-auskunft/pdf/j13/stv_40200m_j13.pdf [3] http://verbundlinie.at/busbahnbim-auskunft/pdf/j13/stv_40200n_j13.pdf [4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/955209 [5] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2165551 [6] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Austria/Import_Haltestellen_Steiermark [7] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2013-November/002428.html ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] IFOPT-numbers for public transport platforms
UK bus stops all have codes (taken from the NaPTAN import), for example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/533877725 If it's not displayed on the stop, any reference should be prefixed with the source. That stop also has a publicly-displayed code which is tagged as ref=69345648. This is actually the numeric equivalent of the NaPTAN code (oxfgjmgt). Both these codes can be used to look information up on the internet. On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Andreas Uller a.ul...@gmx.at wrote: Dear list, First I'd like to say hello, my name is Andreas, and I consider it one of my main priorities in OSM to map things related to public transport (routes, stops) in my home city of Graz, Austria and beyond. The bus and tram lines in Graz are complete for quite some time now, so I started entering all the regional bus lines in Styria (a list of the current progress is here: [1]). Of course, I use the current tagging scheme, which can be quite tideous for regional buslines, because often there are many variants which each should get their own relation. My masterpiece so far are the bus routes 200/201 with a total of 62 variants (the timetable is so long, it's split into two files: [2],[3], route_masters in OSM: [4],[5]). So far the biggest problem was finding the correct position of bus stops in rural areas, where they often can't be seen on aerial images (no road-markings, no bays, no shelters...). Therefore, I'm very happy that we got the position of all public transport stops in Styria for use in OSM. The planned import is outlined here: [6] and a discussion has been started on the imports-Mailinglist: [7]. The reason for my mail to you is: We also received a lot of attributes for each platform, including a unique ID per platform, which has been identified as the IFOPT-number, an internationally unique number. It appears unclear, if this number should be added to all the platforms in OSM, or if this is unnecessary/unwanted. Has there already been a discussion on how (if at all) to use this number? The most straigh-forward method that comes to my mind would be to include it as ref:IFOPT, but what is the opinion on this list? I think it could become important when timetable- or real-time-data becomes available, but I don't know if this is true. I'm looking forward to you answers, Andreas [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Austria/Regionalbusse_Steiermark [2] http://verbundlinie.at/busbahnbim-auskunft/pdf/j13/stv_40200m_j13.pdf [3] http://verbundlinie.at/busbahnbim-auskunft/pdf/j13/stv_40200n_j13.pdf [4] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/955209 [5] http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2165551 [6] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Austria/Import_Haltestellen_Steiermark [7] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2013-November/002428.html ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] maintenance is very time consuming on public transport routes
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 1:22 PM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: On 12/1/2013 5:32 PM, Jo wrote: Hmm, I was thinking of staying more or less within the lines of what we have now, but take away the burden of 10, 20, 70 relations on the same piece of road. I'm just curious - what type of data consumer could use information from OSM which contains 70 routes in a road segment? It would seem to be too many to fit on a map display, but I suppose a device would be able to highlight a single route variation on demand. I am looking at using the OSM transport data in transport network planning, in particular, how to buiid a network which works more effectively (dare I say efficiently). We need all this information. The routes also need to be described with 'time-of-day' as well. (Locally, we have roads that reverse direction depending on the time-of-day/weekday/weekend.) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] maintenance is very time consuming on public transport routes
On 12/3/2013 6:34 PM, Jo wrote: Would it be useful to add all the starting times/ending times as well for a given route? This can be different depending on weekdays/Saturdays/Sundays/weekdays during short school holidays/weekdays during long school holidays. How would we indicate that difference? It's probably not wise to add it, it changes even more often than the routes themselves. It will be very awkward and tag-heavy to add time information to the OSM data. It's possible to add some data as listed above, but - in addition to the variations above: What about route schedule timing points? (Where the bus leaves at a targeted time, waiting if necessary). Technically, each of those points must be updated according to the schedule above. In my tiny area without GTFS, I created the 13 routes in OSM, then created GTFS data with an external tool to add time schedules. The tool was not ideal, but the GTFS and OSM routes matched exactly. There may be better tools available now (For example, I haven't looked at the GTFS editor at https://github.com/openplans/gtfs-editor ) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] maintenance is very time consuming on public transport routes
Hi Mike, Which tool were you using for GTFS? On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Mike N nice...@att.net wrote: On 12/3/2013 6:34 PM, Jo wrote: Would it be useful to add all the starting times/ending times as well for a given route? This can be different depending on weekdays/Saturdays/Sundays/weekdays during short school holidays/weekdays during long school holidays. How would we indicate that difference? It's probably not wise to add it, it changes even more often than the routes themselves. It will be very awkward and tag-heavy to add time information to the OSM data. It's possible to add some data as listed above, but - in addition to the variations above: What about route schedule timing points? (Where the bus leaves at a targeted time, waiting if necessary). Technically, each of those points must be updated according to the schedule above. In my tiny area without GTFS, I created the 13 routes in OSM, then created GTFS data with an external tool to add time schedules. The tool was not ideal, but the GTFS and OSM routes matched exactly. There may be better tools available now (For example, I haven't looked at the GTFS editor at https://github.com/openplans/gtfs-editor ) ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
