Re: [Talk-us] Population during mandatory evacuations

[Greg Troxel]

Richard Fairhurst  writes:

> Minh Nguyen wrote:
>> Following some discussion about this changeset in OSMUS 
>> Slack [2], I started a discussion on the wiki about preferring 
>> more stable population figures over supposition about 
>> temporary circumstances. [3]
>
> It's roughly analogous to a situation we had a few months ago with road
> closures due to Hurricane Florence:
>
> https://twitter.com/richardf/status/1040931194999898114
>
> I think the answer is that temporary situations need temporary (i.e.
> lifecycle-bounded) tagging. Tagging temporary situations with unbounded tags
> is ok for those browsing osm.org or another online slippy map with minutely
> updates, but not for anyone using offline maps, sites with less frequent
> updates, and so on.

That is a real issue.  The offline/online distinction is messsy, as you
say, because of the various update times.  I use offline mpas, but tend
to update every few days (osmand live).

But I see population as fundamentally different; the population doesn't
change during an evacuation, and we don't have a tag for "how many
people are currently within this boundary", which is the value that does
change (and changes dailly due to commmuting, etc.).  If someone were
studying things like this and somehow had a graph of the number of
humans within some administrative boundary by hour, they would certainly
not label the y axis "population".


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Re: [Talk-us] Population during mandatory evacuations

[Richard Fairhurst]

Minh Nguyen wrote:
> Following some discussion about this changeset in OSMUS 
> Slack [2], I started a discussion on the wiki about preferring 
> more stable population figures over supposition about 
> temporary circumstances. [3]

It's roughly analogous to a situation we had a few months ago with road
closures due to Hurricane Florence:

https://twitter.com/richardf/status/1040931194999898114

I think the answer is that temporary situations need temporary (i.e.
lifecycle-bounded) tagging. Tagging temporary situations with unbounded tags
is ok for those browsing osm.org or another online slippy map with minutely
updates, but not for anyone using offline maps, sites with less frequent
updates, and so on.

cheers
Richard



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/USA-f5284732.html

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Re: [Talk-us] Population during mandatory evacuations

[Greg Troxel]

Minh Nguyen  writes:

> (Crossposted to the talk-us and tagging lists.)
>
> Due to the ongoing Camp Fire in Northern California [1], the place POI
> for the town of Paradise got tagged with population=0 before the
> change was reverted. Following some discussion about this changeset in
> OSMUS Slack [2], I started a discussion on the wiki about preferring
> more stable population figures over supposition about temporary
> circumstances. [3]

That's really unreasonable that somebody would do that.

Obviously population is the number of people whose residence is in a
place, or something like that, not how many people are there this
minute.

It does get tricky for communities that have year-rounders and summer
people, where "residence" is blurry.  But everybody leaving for a week
does not change the population, just as people showing up for a parade
for 6 hours does not etiher.

On top of that, the idea that it's 0, between emergency people and
non-compliant people, does not in general seem credible, and if the
person making the edit was not actually there and able to judge this,
they're out of line on that basis too.


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[Talk-us] Population during mandatory evacuations

[Minh Nguyen]

(Crossposted to the talk-us and tagging lists.)

Due to the ongoing Camp Fire in Northern California [1], the place POI 
for the town of Paradise got tagged with population=0 before the change 
was reverted. Following some discussion about this changeset in OSMUS 
Slack [2], I started a discussion on the wiki about preferring more 
stable population figures over supposition about temporary 
circumstances. [3]


[1] 
[2] 
[3] 



--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us


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