Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

I think in previous situations where this has come up on this list and the IRC networks was that explicit tagging plus explanatory note is better than what the Germans are doing for zonal speeds. On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:39 AM, Tod Fitch wrote: > On Sep 16, 2014, at 12:44 AM, Martin Koppenhoefe

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Sep 16, 2014, at 12:44 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > PS: one remark to "California vehicle code 22352" > This apparently stands for all kind of prima facie limits in California, IMHO > you could also use something more specific like "US:CA:school" where "US:CA" > would be a short form for

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

2014-09-16 7:27 GMT+02:00 Greg Morgan : > Woot! Woot! If you are adding a speed limit to a node where a sign is > located and if you add traffic_sign="maxspeed" along with your maxspeed="25 > mph", then JOSM will show you a cute little sign verses a blue dot. > http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: > > I've been off on other things so I haven't done more than make sure that > the roads tagged with maxspeed=* that I have done in my area also have a > source:maxspeed=sign. I think I am comfortable enough with this discussion > thread that I w

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Sep 15, 2014, at 1:09 AM, Paul Johnson wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 6:52 AM, Tod Fitch wrote: > maxspeed:source=* was a "thinko" (kind of like a typo but different part of > the body). :) > > OK, probably, but it does sort nicely in JOSM. Either way, feel free to fix > my mistaggin

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:52 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer < dieterdre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > 2014-09-15 16:59 GMT+02:00 Ed Hillsman : > >> I agree there is a need to have a way to deal with this. Where I have >> checked a street, in both directions, for a posted speed limit and found >> none, I tag

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

2014-09-15 16:59 GMT+02:00 Ed Hillsman : > I agree there is a need to have a way to deal with this. Where I have > checked a street, in both directions, for a posted speed limit and found > none, I tag the street as maxspeed=unposted, source:maxspeed=survey. This > makes it clear that the street h

[Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

I agree there is a need to have a way to deal with this. Where I have checked a street, in both directions, for a posted speed limit and found none, I tag the street as maxspeed=unposted, source:maxspeed=survey. This makes it clear that the street has been checked in the field and found not to h

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

I also suggest to add source:maxspeed=sign along with maxspeed=* to ways with signposted maxspeed (especially when the sign posted speed equals the default speed, because this will keep those speedlimits in place for the case that the legislation changes and you'd want to update default speed limit

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Wait... 65: Highest posted speed limits in Oregon. 75: Highest speed authorized to ODOT for a posted speed limit (so far, unused, any paved route using a speed limit higher than 65 MPH is automatically wrong as of this writing) 88: Open desert/dune speed limit (never posted, rarely enforced) 99: Fa

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 6:52 AM, Tod Fitch wrote: > maxspeed:source=* was a "thinko" (kind of like a typo but different part > of the body). :) > OK, probably, but it does sort nicely in JOSM. Either way, feel free to fix my mistagging on this...I've used maxpseed:source=* on a few counties now

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

maxspeed:source=* was a "thinko" (kind of like a typo but different part of the body). :) The jumbled pseudokey value "us:ca:residential" was inspired by http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed used elsewhere in the world (e.g. "source:maxspeed=DE:urban"). But I would be happy wi

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

> Il giorno 14/set/2014, alle ore 06:34, Paul Johnson ha > scritto: > > Is it maxspeed:source or source:maxspeed? "invented" as source:maxspeed and also most used cheers, Martin ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.open

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

I should also add that in the US, it depends wildly on where you are. In Oregon, for example, all speed limits on all public roads, regardless of what government authority actually owns and operates the road, are set by the Oregon Department of Transportation, period. Yes, everything from a parki

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Greg Morgan wrote: > > I wonder if 15 mph in a school zone and 25 mph in a residential area are > some sort of federal standard? The source tag might be useful but not much > different than other states. > Not as far as I'm aware. Oregon's school zones are alway

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: > Thus far I've only applied the maxspeed tag to roads with a posted speed > limit. But here in California most residential roads are not posted, > instead there is a state wide prima facie limit: > http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22352.htm

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

cing the options of signage. Kerry Irons From: Greg Morgan [mailto:dr.kludge...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:22 AM To: stevea Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits I wonder if 15 mph in a school zone and 25 mph in a residential area are

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

> Il giorno 10/set/2014, alle ore 20:15, Tod Fitch ha > scritto: > > The more I think about it, tagging each way is a bit like "(incorrect) > tagging for the router", basically creating a maintenance headache and > cluttering the OSM database with stuff the current router and navigation > g

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On 9/10/14 2:15 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: > The more I think about it, tagging each way is a bit like "(incorrect) > tagging for the router", basically creating a maintenance headache and > cluttering the OSM database with stuff the current router and navigation > guidance can use without being chang

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Sep 10, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Richard Welty wrote: > actually one of the most powerful motivators behind > the widespread adaption of the MUTCD is liability. > if states and municipalities show they are operating > in accordance with the MUTCD then they can avoid > a world of hurt in court. it's

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On 9/10/14 9:42 AM, Greg Morgan wrote: > > Thanks. I could not remember the name of the manual. Although states > have rights, federal $$dollars$$ and the restrictions attached can > have a way overriding states rights. actually one of the most powerful motivators behind the widespread adaption o

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:31 AM, stevea wrote: I wonder if 15 mph in a school zone and 25 mph in a residential area are some sort of federal standard? The source tag might be useful but not much different than other states. The federal

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 6:35 AM, Harald Kliems wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Greg Morgan > wrote: > >> >> >> I was thinking more like a stop sign is red and eight sided. A traffic >> engineer told me that there is a federal standard governing how >> intersections are marked, etc.

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Greg Morgan wrote: > > > I was thinking more like a stop sign is red and eight sided. A traffic > engineer told me that there is a federal standard governing how > intersections are marked, etc. > You're probably thinking of the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:31 AM, stevea wrote: > I wonder if 15 mph in a school zone and 25 mph in a residential area > are some sort of federal standard? The source tag might be useful but not > much different than other states. > > > The federal government doesn't have anything to say about

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

2014-09-09 17:47 GMT+02:00 Martijn van Exel : > I'm of the opinion that wherever the speed limit is just the default for > that road class, it should not need to be posted at all. Any data user can > then infer limits. I don't know how this is handled in the US, but in Europe you will definitel

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Thanks for clarifying, Tod. For ETA the congested urban use case is much more challenging to get right, and much more likely to rely on an dynamic ETA estimate. If you're on a multi-hour trip, you're more likely to have scoped out your travel time before you leave and planned accordingly, and if th

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Yes, a "pretty small use case" at somewhere around 10,000,000 trips per year on I-5 through the central valley of California. Or 9,000,000 trips per year each way on I-8 across the desert to the Arizona border. On your daily commute, you may not need help navigating so much as you want accurate

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Agreed - that's a pretty small use case, relatively, though. On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: > Historical and live speed profiles are pretty much required for trip > planning in congested urban areas, but for those of us who drive close to > the speed limit and make long trips o

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Historical and live speed profiles are pretty much required for trip planning in congested urban areas, but for those of us who drive close to the speed limit and make long trips on relatively uncrowded rural freeways, travel time estimates based on posted (or prima facie) speeds are a good appr

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

There's a functional difference between speed limits and the actual speed driven. For ETA prediction, speed limit data is not all that useful - detailed historical and live speed profiles are. That is not data that is in OSM (or should be). The speed limits are mostly useful for alerting drivers th

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Sep 9, 2014, at 10:31 AM, stevea wrote: >>> I wonder if 15 mph in a school zone and 25 mph in a residential area are >>> some sort of federal standard? The source tag might be useful but not much >>> different than other states. > > The federal government doesn't have anything to say about

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

I wonder if 15 mph in a school zone and 25 mph in a residential area are some sort of federal standard? The source tag might be useful but not much different than other states. The federal government doesn't have anything to say about speed limits (in states), as the US Constitution leaves su

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

One street here in Nashville, TN, went for several years without any speed limit signs along its three-mile length. Then, one day, it suddenly had signs every half-mile or so. I suspect that someone probably argued their way out of a speeding ticket on the grounds that there weren't any posted l

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

I'm of the opinion that wherever the speed limit is just the default for that road class, it should not need to be posted at all. Any data user can then infer limits. Martijn On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: > Thus far I've only applied the maxspeed tag to roads with a posted sp

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Sep 9, 2014, at 6:10 AM, Andrew Guertin wrote: > On 09/08/2014 05:27 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: >> [...] >> instead there is a state wide prima facie limit: >> "source:maxspeed=US:CA:residential" >> [...] >> > My state doesn't have such a limit, but my city does. Supposing I started > tagging thing

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

In Europe (at least Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, UK) people started to add both source:maxspeed=: and explicit maxspeed tags. Then there is no need for an external DB to lookup the speeds. Although it means that when the speed changes, all roads have to be retagged. regards On Tue, Sep 9,

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On 09/08/2014 05:27 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: [...] instead there is a state wide prima facie limit: "source:maxspeed=US:CA:residential" [...] My state doesn't have such a limit, but my city does. Supposing I started tagging things with source:maxspeed=US:VT:Burlington, would anyone be upset that

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Am Montag, 8. September 2014 schrieb Tod Fitch : > > How does this sound? > +1 Cheers, Martin -- Martin Koppenhoefer (Dipl-Ing. Arch.) Via del Santuario Regina degli Apostoli, 18 00145 Roma |I|I|I|I|I|I|I|I| Italia N41.851, E

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

California has a 25 MPH rule for school zones while Arizona has (or at least had when I lived there) a 15 MPH school zone limit. It seems that 25 MPH in a residential area is pretty standard but I think states have enough discretion in setting limits that they could vary from one state to the ne

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On 9/8/14 5:55 PM, Greg Morgan wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Tod Fitch > wrote: > > Thus far I've only applied the maxspeed tag to roads with a posted > speed limit. But here in California most residential roads are not > posted, instead ther

Re: [Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: > Thus far I've only applied the maxspeed tag to roads with a posted speed > limit. But here in California most residential roads are not posted, > instead there is a state wide prima facie limit: > http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22352.htm

[Talk-us] Prima Facie Speed Limits

Thus far I've only applied the maxspeed tag to roads with a posted speed limit. But here in California most residential roads are not posted, instead there is a state wide prima facie limit: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22352.htm I am considering tagging the unsigned speed limit on res