Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-14 Thread Howard Gibson via talk
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 13:17:59 -0500
Bob Jonkman via talk  wrote:

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> 
> Howard wrote:
> > I have now updated my website install notes.  I state in them that
> the documentation sucks, and that all the default values work fine.  I
> did not fill in the repository window.
> 
> Pretty good notes, Howard!
> 
> http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/Lenovo/
> 
> - --Bob.

Bob,

   Thanks.

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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-14 Thread Bob Jonkman via talk
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Howard wrote:
> I have now updated my website install notes.  I state in them that
the documentation sucks, and that all the default values work fine.  I
did not fill in the repository window.

Pretty good notes, Howard!

http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/Lenovo/

- --Bob.


On 2018-02-12 06:59 PM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 21:15:57 + Giles Orr via talk
>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I'm reading all of this with some interest: I tried a Fedora Net
>> Install about four months back.  And I appear to be the only
>> person on this list who had a problem with it.  Specifically, I
>> got to the page where you have to fill in details about your
>> system and users (I think, I'm doing this from memory) and
>> couldn't proceed further despite having filled in the details
>> because the installer was having a hard time either getting the 
>> list of mirrors or finding a responsive mirror (I think it was
>> the former).  The result was a ten minute delay, despite my
>> having a fully functional network connection.  A bit of research
>> at the time seemed to indicate that this was an uncommon but not
>> unheard-of problem with the Net Installer.  It left me strongly
>> inclined to make the big ISO download ...
>> 
>> -- Giles https://www.gilesorr.com/ giles...@gmail.com
> 
> Giles,
> 
> I have now updated my website install notes.  I state in them that
> the documentation sucks, and that all the default values work fine.
> I did not fill in the repository window.
> 

- -- 
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-12 Thread Howard Gibson via talk
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 15:44:24 -0500
Bob Jonkman via talk  wrote:

> 
> Are there any down sides to using a 32-bit machine as a web- or mail
> server? I'm thinking low power consumption,  make that an
> attractive alternate use.

Bob,

   This machine works fine for the stuff I do with it.  It would be nice to 
have Chrome, to play Netflix, but I don't travel much.  I have the means of 
accessing Netflix at home.

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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-12 Thread Howard Gibson via talk
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 10:49:08 -0500 (EST)
"D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk"  wrote:

> | From: Howard Gibson via talk 
> 
> |I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The install DVD 
> |is no longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a Netinstall.  
> 
> Interesting.  What laptop is it?  I would think that most 32-bit only 
> laptops are not really useful any longer.
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Hugh,

  Lenovo T400.  It is my away-from-home machine, and still seems fast enough.

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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-12 Thread Howard Gibson via talk
On Sat, 10 Feb 2018 21:15:57 +
Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
> 
> 
> I'm reading all of this with some interest: I tried a Fedora Net Install
> about four months back.  And I appear to be the only person on this list
> who had a problem with it.  Specifically, I got to the page where you have
> to fill in details about your system and users (I think, I'm doing this
> from memory) and couldn't proceed further despite having filled in the
> details because the installer was having a hard time either getting the
> list of mirrors or finding a responsive mirror (I think it was the
> former).  The result was a ten minute delay, despite my having a fully
> functional network connection.  A bit of research at the time seemed to
> indicate that this was an uncommon but not unheard-of problem with the Net
> Installer.  It left me strongly inclined to make the big ISO download ...
> 
> -- 
> Giles
> https://www.gilesorr.com/
> giles...@gmail.com

Giles,

   I have now updated my website install notes.  I state in them that the 
documentation sucks, and that all the default values work fine.  I did not fill 
in the repository window.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-12 Thread Stewart C. Russell via talk
On 2018-02-11 12:08 AM, Bob Jonkman via talk wrote:
> 
> I'm already using IceCat, so the browser isn't my problem.

IceCat uses the old Firefox (< 57) codebase, while Firefox 58 is
available on 32-bit linux. The new code is much more memory and
CPU-efficient.

 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-10 Thread Bob Jonkman via talk
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Hugh wrote:
> What's the processor?

I'll have to check. It's possible the two P200s have different CPUs,
since there are other differences. And I may be remembering the speed
of the dead 64-bit laptop, not the 32-bit laptop.

> |  But now that some packages are no longer | available in 32-bit
> architecture (hello, Chrome!) it may be necessary | to buy a new
> laptop.
> 
> Switch to Firefox?  What other programs are missing?

I'm already using IceCat, so the browser isn't my problem. But the
lack of 32-bit Chrome is the thin edge of the wedge. There will be
other packages that will no longer be distributed for 32-bit
architecture. Then what?

But I guess we're not using 8-bit and 16-bit CPUs any more either.

> If you've got the notebook, why not use it until it dies

Yup. That's how I treat all my computers. And then take the useful
parts and frankenstein them into other computers.

- --Bob.


On 2018-02-10 09:46 PM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> | From: Bob Jonkman via talk 
> 
> | I have a Toshiba Satellite P200 laptop, 3 GHz dual-core CPU, 2
> GBytes | RAM, 200 GByte HD, 4 USB ports, and, most wonderful of
> all, a 1440x900 | px 17" screen.
> 
> What's the processor?  I read a review of a P200 that had a Core
> Duo T2350 processor running at 1.867GHz.  The fastest Core Duo T
> series runs at 2.33GHz.
> 
> |  But now that some packages are no longer | available in 32-bit
> architecture (hello, Chrome!) it may be necessary | to buy a new
> laptop.
> 
> Switch to Firefox?  What other programs are missing?
> 
> | Are there any down sides to using a 32-bit machine as a web- or
> mail | server? I'm thinking low power consumption,  make that
> an | attractive alternate use.
> 
> Power consumption isn't that low on your notebook.  There have
> been some efficiency advances since 2006 when the Core Duo T series
> were introduced.
> 
> I'm typing this on a three year old netbook with a processor that
> is roughly as powerful (but with modern features) and takes a lot
> less power (7.5W vs 31W + GPU power).
> 
> But that's a minor point.  If you've got the notebook, why not use
> it until it dies or something better comes along?

=
> Hugh wrote:>> I would think that most 32-bit only laptops are not
> really useful
>> any longer.
> 
> I have a Toshiba Satellite P200 laptop, 3 GHz dual-core CPU, 2
> GBytes RAM, 200 GByte HD, 4 USB ports, and, most wonderful of all,
> a 1440x900 px 17" screen.
> 
> I was disappointed to learn about a week ago when installing
> Debian Testing that it only has a 32-bit CPU. I have another P200
> that no longer boots, and I was sure it had a 64-bit CPU.  That one
> also had Bluetooth and 6 USB ports, so it was likely a higher
> sub-model of the P200.
> 
> Such a machine is perfectly adequate for web surfing, e-mail
> reading, maintaining other people's websites, and ssh-ing into
> whatever remote machine I'm SysAdminning. But now that some
> packages are no longer available in 32-bit architecture (hello,
> Chrome!) it may be necessary to buy a new laptop.
> 
> Are there any down sides to using a 32-bit machine as a web- or
> mail server? I'm thinking low power consumption,  make that an 
> attractive alternate use.
> 
> 
> Howard wrote:
>> Has anyone else out there played with this? (Netinstall)
> 
> Yes, very successfully. I generally prefer doing the netinstall.
> Using an .iso to install takes time to copy all the OS files and
> packages to the computer, and, unless the .iso is a very recent
> release, almost everything you just installed has to be replaced
> with the first upgrade you make.  So, might as well do the
> netinstall and get all the current stuff the first time.
> 
> 
> --Bob.
> 
> 
> On 2018-02-10 10:49 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote: | From:
> Howard Gibson via talk 
>> 
>> |I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The 
>> install DVD |is no longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do
>> a Netinstall.
>> 
>> Interesting.  What laptop is it?  I would think that most 32-bit 
>> only laptops are not really useful any longer.
> 
>> On 2018-02-09 10:27 PM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
>>> I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The
>>> install DVD is no longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a
>>> Netinstall. Netinstall is poorly documented, but the default
>>> settings all work, I was able to select the software I wanted,
>>> and it has all worked very well.  I think I actually prefer
>>> Netinstall to the DVD.
>>> 
>>> Has anyone else out there played with this?
>>> 
>>> I have not yet updated my website notes.





- -- 
Bob Jonkman   Phone: +1-519-635-9413
SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
Software   ---   Office & Business Automation   ---   Consulting
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Comment: 

Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-10 Thread D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
| From: Bob Jonkman via talk 

| I have a Toshiba Satellite P200 laptop, 3 GHz dual-core CPU, 2 GBytes
| RAM, 200 GByte HD, 4 USB ports, and, most wonderful of all, a 1440x900
| px 17" screen.

What's the processor?  I read a review of a P200 that had a Core Duo
T2350 processor running at 1.867GHz.  The fastest Core Duo T series
runs at 2.33GHz.

|  But now that some packages are no longer
| available in 32-bit architecture (hello, Chrome!) it may be necessary
| to buy a new laptop.

Switch to Firefox?  What other programs are missing?

| Are there any down sides to using a 32-bit machine as a web- or mail
| server? I'm thinking low power consumption,  make that an
| attractive alternate use.

Power consumption isn't that low on your notebook.  There have been
some efficiency advances since 2006 when the Core Duo T series were
introduced.

I'm typing this on a three year old netbook with a processor that is
roughly as powerful (but with modern features) and takes a lot less
power (7.5W vs 31W + GPU power).

But that's a minor point.  If you've got the notebook, why not use it
until it dies or something better comes along?
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-10 Thread Giles Orr via talk
On 10 February 2018 at 20:44, Bob Jonkman via talk  wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hugh wrote:
> > I would think that most 32-bit only laptops are not really useful
> > any longer.
>
> I have a Toshiba Satellite P200 laptop, 3 GHz dual-core CPU, 2 GBytes
> RAM, 200 GByte HD, 4 USB ports, and, most wonderful of all, a 1440x900
> px 17" screen.
>
> I was disappointed to learn about a week ago when installing Debian
> Testing that it only has a 32-bit CPU. I have another P200 that no
> longer boots, and I was sure it had a 64-bit CPU.  That one also had
> Bluetooth and 6 USB ports, so it was likely a higher sub-model of the
> P200.
>
> Such a machine is perfectly adequate for web surfing, e-mail reading,
> maintaining other people's websites, and ssh-ing into whatever remote
> machine I'm SysAdminning. But now that some packages are no longer
> available in 32-bit architecture (hello, Chrome!) it may be necessary
> to buy a new laptop.
>
> Are there any down sides to using a 32-bit machine as a web- or mail
> server? I'm thinking low power consumption,  make that an
> attractive alternate use.
>
>
> Howard wrote:
> >> Has anyone else out there played with this? (Netinstall)
>
> Yes, very successfully. I generally prefer doing the netinstall. Using
> an .iso to install takes time to copy all the OS files and packages to
> the computer, and, unless the .iso is a very recent release, almost
> everything you just installed has to be replaced with the first
> upgrade you make.  So, might as well do the netinstall and get all the
> current stuff the first time.
>
>
> - --Bob.
>
>
> On 2018-02-10 10:49 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> > | From: Howard Gibson via talk 
> >
> > |I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The
> > install DVD |is no longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a
> > Netinstall.
> >
> > Interesting.  What laptop is it?  I would think that most 32-bit
> > only laptops are not really useful any longer.
>
> > On 2018-02-09 10:27 PM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
> >> I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The install
> >> DVD is no longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a Netinstall.
> >> Netinstall is poorly documented, but the default settings all
> >> work, I was able to select the software I wanted, and it has all
> >> worked very well.  I think I actually prefer Netinstall to the
> >> DVD.
> >>
> >> Has anyone else out there played with this?
> >>
> >> I have not yet updated my website notes.


I'm reading all of this with some interest: I tried a Fedora Net Install
about four months back.  And I appear to be the only person on this list
who had a problem with it.  Specifically, I got to the page where you have
to fill in details about your system and users (I think, I'm doing this
from memory) and couldn't proceed further despite having filled in the
details because the installer was having a hard time either getting the
list of mirrors or finding a responsive mirror (I think it was the
former).  The result was a ten minute delay, despite my having a fully
functional network connection.  A bit of research at the time seemed to
indicate that this was an uncommon but not unheard-of problem with the Net
Installer.  It left me strongly inclined to make the big ISO download ...

-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-10 Thread Bob Jonkman via talk
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Hugh wrote:
> I would think that most 32-bit only laptops are not really useful
> any longer.

I have a Toshiba Satellite P200 laptop, 3 GHz dual-core CPU, 2 GBytes
RAM, 200 GByte HD, 4 USB ports, and, most wonderful of all, a 1440x900
px 17" screen.

I was disappointed to learn about a week ago when installing Debian
Testing that it only has a 32-bit CPU. I have another P200 that no
longer boots, and I was sure it had a 64-bit CPU.  That one also had
Bluetooth and 6 USB ports, so it was likely a higher sub-model of the
P200.

Such a machine is perfectly adequate for web surfing, e-mail reading,
maintaining other people's websites, and ssh-ing into whatever remote
machine I'm SysAdminning. But now that some packages are no longer
available in 32-bit architecture (hello, Chrome!) it may be necessary
to buy a new laptop.

Are there any down sides to using a 32-bit machine as a web- or mail
server? I'm thinking low power consumption,  make that an
attractive alternate use.


Howard wrote:
>> Has anyone else out there played with this? (Netinstall)

Yes, very successfully. I generally prefer doing the netinstall. Using
an .iso to install takes time to copy all the OS files and packages to
the computer, and, unless the .iso is a very recent release, almost
everything you just installed has to be replaced with the first
upgrade you make.  So, might as well do the netinstall and get all the
current stuff the first time.


- --Bob.


On 2018-02-10 10:49 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> | From: Howard Gibson via talk 
> 
> |I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The
> install DVD |is no longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a
> Netinstall.
> 
> Interesting.  What laptop is it?  I would think that most 32-bit
> only laptops are not really useful any longer.

> On 2018-02-09 10:27 PM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
>> I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The install
>> DVD is no longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a Netinstall.
>> Netinstall is poorly documented, but the default settings all
>> work, I was able to select the software I wanted, and it has all
>> worked very well.  I think I actually prefer Netinstall to the
>> DVD.
>> 
>> Has anyone else out there played with this?
>> 
>> I have not yet updated my website notes.




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SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-09 Thread James Knott via talk
On 02/09/2018 10:27 PM, Howard Gibson via talk wrote:
>I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The install DVD is no 
> longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a Netinstall.  Netinstall is poorly 
> documented, but the default settings all work, I was able to select the 
> software I wanted, and it has all worked very well.  I think I actually 
> prefer Netinstall to the DVD.  
>
>Has anyone else out there played with this?
>
>I have not yet updated my website notes.
>

Yes, but with OpenSUSE, not Fedora.  However, I did it because one of my
systems only had a CD drive.  Worked fine.
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[GTALUG] Fedora Netinstall

2018-02-09 Thread Howard Gibson via talk
   I have just upgraded my 32-bit laptop to Fedora 27.  The install DVD is no 
longer available for 32-bit.  I had to do a Netinstall.  Netinstall is poorly 
documented, but the default settings all work, I was able to select the 
software I wanted, and it has all worked very well.  I think I actually prefer 
Netinstall to the DVD.  

   Has anyone else out there played with this?

   I have not yet updated my website notes.

-- 
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hgib...@eol.ca
jhowardgib...@gmail.com
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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